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So I guess it's essentially regressive (or at least flat), in that rich people's consumption isn't dramatically greater than poor people, compared to income. H

by rdl 13y ago

So I guess it's essentially regressive (or at least flat), in that rich people's consumption isn't dramatically greater than poor people, compared to income. Having a system like that plus a high floor seems relatively fair, IMO, and has reasonable consequences -- everyone is motivated to do marginally more work, and everyone is in a decent position to succeed, or at least for one's children to succeed. What's really pathological about the US system is that there are gaps where work or other effort is either directly disincented or is so foreign to poor/unsuccessful people that they view being successful as being a traitor to their culture/race/neighborhood/etc. And that for large groups of people, the only way to achieve success appears to be zero sum.

seanmcdirmid 13y ago
The Swiss have slums, housing projects, and a perpetual lower class with little social mobility. The US system is surprisingly normal in its effectiveness vs a country like Swiss. There are plenty of places in the states where there is absolutely no opportunity. Take the Mississippi delta for example. Spend some time there and your view on poverty will probably change a bit, it is very much like a third world country where hard work won't get you much beyond survival.
- rdl 13y ago
  Yeah, I wasn't arguing that people in places like the delta are incorrect in their perceptions -- it's pretty much correct for much of the country, or for groups in even more of the country. I didn't realize the Swiss have slums and projects. The only Swiss people I know are high-SES, and from my limited time (<3 days) in the country, I didn't see anything less than awesomeness.
  - seanmcdirmid 13y ago
    I lived in Lausanne for two years, and I definitely knew where the house projects were; here were also many African and Arab refuges in the city. You could argue that Swiss could be universally rich if they just closed their doors, but it turns out having a lower class works for the economy. One nice thing about Swiss: there are no homeless people, they'll put any they find up in a shelter or hostel until they can find permanent housing for them; though some younger tourists will squat in various abandoned buildings, it's their own choice.

by rdl 13y ago

seanmcdirmid 13y ago

The Swiss have slums, housing projects, and a perpetual lower class with little social mobility. The US system is surprisingly normal in its effectiveness vs a country like Swiss. There are plenty of places in the states where there is absolutely no opportunity. Take the Mississippi delta for example. Spend some time there and your view on poverty will probably change a bit, it is very much like a third world country where hard work won't get you much beyond survival.

rdl 13y ago
Yeah, I wasn't arguing that people in places like the delta are incorrect in their perceptions -- it's pretty much correct for much of the country, or for groups in even more of the country. I didn't realize the Swiss have slums and projects. The only Swiss people I know are high-SES, and from my limited time (<3 days) in the country, I didn't see anything less than awesomeness.
- seanmcdirmid 13y ago
  I lived in Lausanne for two years, and I definitely knew where the house projects were; here were also many African and Arab refuges in the city. You could argue that Swiss could be universally rich if they just closed their doors, but it turns out having a lower class works for the economy. One nice thing about Swiss: there are no homeless people, they'll put any they find up in a shelter or hostel until they can find permanent housing for them; though some younger tourists will squat in various abandoned buildings, it's their own choice.