5 ms·

What could be wrong with dosing children with amphetamines every day for years?

bayesianhorse 13y ago
If you are not treating a child with severe or even moderate ADHD with Amphetamines, the risks are severe and not so rare at all. Almost by guarantee the child will not achieve remotely as well as it could. Both in school and within social groups. Both of these failures will almost by guarantee lead to further problems down the road. It has been shown that untreated ADHD multiplies the risk for other very real disorders, like bipolar disorder for example.
- code_duck 13y ago
  I disagree, and I'm confident sane history will eventually look back in horror at the idiots giving their kids amphetamines willy-nilly. Perhaps some children need this. The vast majority receiving these drugs would benefit a lot more from realistic parenting and school situations than from a toxic, addictive stimulant pill.
  - bayesianhorse 13y ago
    Those enlightened future beings will have to discover some theoretical side effects which justify the obvious disadvantages of denying treatment and just haven't been seen yet despite of decades of experience with these drugs. These side effects need to be severe, given the massive amount of consequences of untreated ADHD.
    - code_duck 13y ago
      I don't even really believe that ADHD exists. I'm quite confident that I'm amphetamine addiction exists, however.
      - bayesianhorse 13y ago
        There is a very good MOOC on ADHD from coursera, the videos should still be up. I don't think anyone who has a low to medium understanding of the topic can claim that ADHD does not exist. The evidence for the existence is compelling and overwhelming. A short non-exhaustive summary: visible symptoms, effects on specific cognitive tests, reversal of symptoms under treatment, significant changes in neuroanatomy and brain activity in MRI, differences in EEG spectra and severe consequences like lower Income, higher propensity for violence and addictive behavior plus a markedly worse social life.
        code_duck 13y ago
        The thing is that I'm more likely to believe its a combination of environmental toxins, food poisons such as artificial coloring and preservatives and incomplete parenting than something that could be treated effectively with more chemicals.
- tekalon 13y ago
  My mother was only just recently diagnosed with ADD (After having 2 out of her 5 children with the same ADD/ADHD diagnosis). This was AFTER dealing with depression and various diagnoses including bipolar. She is in therapy to not only manage her ADD, but also deal with all the issues as a result of a lifetime of unmanaged ADD. I have ADD, but was diagnosed young, I learned how to manage and only went on meds when I was mid 20's since my non medical management didn't work well outside a structured school setting (and barely did in highschool/college). My depression and anxiety are made worse if not caused by ADD and has affect social and work life (good and bad). While I agree that ADD/ADHD can be overdiagnosed and even possibly overmedicated, I agree that not having a diagnosis can cause a worse life than otherwise.
trafnar 13y ago
What do you suspect?
- code_duck 13y ago
  Nothing at all. Methamphetamine, which is not very different than the dextroamphetamine in Adderal, has proven to be a remarkably safe substance and in general, society benefits a great deal when people ingest methamphetamine. I'm sure schoolchildren being prescribed dextroamphetamine to take every single day for years is a very good idea as well.
  - nav1 13y ago
    I don't think it's reasonable to compare the effects of street methamphetamine (which is most likely not pure and the dose is not regulated) with the effects of therapeutical doses of dextroamphetamine prescribed by a doctor.
    - code_duck 13y ago
      The impurities in methamphetamine are not what causes the problem: it's the toxicity and danger of the drug itself.
  - ejs 13y ago
    Is this sarcasm? Hard to tell since many people do take methamphetamine daily as prescribed by a doctor.
    - code_duck 13y ago
      If you have narcolepsy, great. You need strong drugs. If you are a kid who fidgets, I don't think you need amphetamines.
  - Bluestrike2 13y ago
    Are you honestly comparing crystal meth from the street to something prescribed under the guidance of one's doctor? Your post strikes me more along the lines of hysterics than a rational foray into discussion. For shits and giggles, let's compare apples to apples. Desoxyn (Methamphetamine HCl). There you get the scary M word, but one that's FDA-approved and prescribed--though, admittedly, not commonly--by doctors. Same chemical substance minus the crystallized form, impurities, and of course, the world of illicit meth. Oddly enough, Abbott Pharmaceuticals isn't synthesizing Desoxyn in their backyard meth lab ala shake-and-bake and Walgreen's isn't hawking it from the saddle bag of their pharmacists' motorcycles. Same substance, different context. If you want to argue against possible long-term effects of d-amphetamine on developing children, do so. You certainly won't be alone, though for all the hysterics and despite thousands of long-term studies on its effects, there's a rather glaring dearth of support for that position. But, hey, "methamphetamine!"
jasonlotito 13y ago
ADHD is not just a problem for children.

If you are not treating a child with severe or even moderate ADHD with Amphetamines, the risks are severe and not so rare at all. Almost by guarantee the child will not achieve remotely as well as it could. Both in school and within social groups. Both of these failures will almost by guarantee lead to further problems down the road. It has been shown that untreated ADHD multiplies the risk for other very real disorders, like bipolar disorder for example.

code_duck 13y ago
I disagree, and I'm confident sane history will eventually look back in horror at the idiots giving their kids amphetamines willy-nilly. Perhaps some children need this. The vast majority receiving these drugs would benefit a lot more from realistic parenting and school situations than from a toxic, addictive stimulant pill.
- bayesianhorse 13y ago
  Those enlightened future beings will have to discover some theoretical side effects which justify the obvious disadvantages of denying treatment and just haven't been seen yet despite of decades of experience with these drugs. These side effects need to be severe, given the massive amount of consequences of untreated ADHD.
  - code_duck 13y ago
    I don't even really believe that ADHD exists. I'm quite confident that I'm amphetamine addiction exists, however.
    - bayesianhorse 13y ago
      There is a very good MOOC on ADHD from coursera, the videos should still be up. I don't think anyone who has a low to medium understanding of the topic can claim that ADHD does not exist. The evidence for the existence is compelling and overwhelming. A short non-exhaustive summary: visible symptoms, effects on specific cognitive tests, reversal of symptoms under treatment, significant changes in neuroanatomy and brain activity in MRI, differences in EEG spectra and severe consequences like lower Income, higher propensity for violence and addictive behavior plus a markedly worse social life.
      - code_duck 13y ago
        The thing is that I'm more likely to believe its a combination of environmental toxins, food poisons such as artificial coloring and preservatives and incomplete parenting than something that could be treated effectively with more chemicals.
tekalon 13y ago
My mother was only just recently diagnosed with ADD (After having 2 out of her 5 children with the same ADD/ADHD diagnosis). This was AFTER dealing with depression and various diagnoses including bipolar. She is in therapy to not only manage her ADD, but also deal with all the issues as a result of a lifetime of unmanaged ADD. I have ADD, but was diagnosed young, I learned how to manage and only went on meds when I was mid 20's since my non medical management didn't work well outside a structured school setting (and barely did in highschool/college). My depression and anxiety are made worse if not caused by ADD and has affect social and work life (good and bad). While I agree that ADD/ADHD can be overdiagnosed and even possibly overmedicated, I agree that not having a diagnosis can cause a worse life than otherwise.

trafnar 13y ago

What do you suspect?

code_duck 13y ago
Nothing at all. Methamphetamine, which is not very different than the dextroamphetamine in Adderal, has proven to be a remarkably safe substance and in general, society benefits a great deal when people ingest methamphetamine. I'm sure schoolchildren being prescribed dextroamphetamine to take every single day for years is a very good idea as well.
- nav1 13y ago
  I don't think it's reasonable to compare the effects of street methamphetamine (which is most likely not pure and the dose is not regulated) with the effects of therapeutical doses of dextroamphetamine prescribed by a doctor.
  - code_duck 13y ago
    The impurities in methamphetamine are not what causes the problem: it's the toxicity and danger of the drug itself.
- ejs 13y ago
  Is this sarcasm? Hard to tell since many people do take methamphetamine daily as prescribed by a doctor.
  - code_duck 13y ago
    If you have narcolepsy, great. You need strong drugs. If you are a kid who fidgets, I don't think you need amphetamines.
- Bluestrike2 13y ago
  Are you honestly comparing crystal meth from the street to something prescribed under the guidance of one's doctor? Your post strikes me more along the lines of hysterics than a rational foray into discussion. For shits and giggles, let's compare apples to apples. Desoxyn (Methamphetamine HCl). There you get the scary M word, but one that's FDA-approved and prescribed--though, admittedly, not commonly--by doctors. Same chemical substance minus the crystallized form, impurities, and of course, the world of illicit meth. Oddly enough, Abbott Pharmaceuticals isn't synthesizing Desoxyn in their backyard meth lab ala shake-and-bake and Walgreen's isn't hawking it from the saddle bag of their pharmacists' motorcycles. Same substance, different context. If you want to argue against possible long-term effects of d-amphetamine on developing children, do so. You certainly won't be alone, though for all the hysterics and despite thousands of long-term studies on its effects, there's a rather glaring dearth of support for that position. But, hey, "methamphetamine!"

jasonlotito 13y ago

ADHD is not just a problem for children.