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From the story, it seems NASA has no choice but to implement this despicable law. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I hope I am not. I hope this kind of pol

From the story, it seems NASA has no choice but to implement this despicable law. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I hope I am not. I hope this kind of politics does not creep into other areas of American life.

tokenizer 13y ago
Well NASA is run by the government, and the government passed this law. I'm in your boat, but I think you're right. However if they violated it it would be interesting to see who'd be thrown under the bus. That said this is just another law designed to further tension IMO. If you created a rule that designated the information conferences were bilateral, and that the nations all share in their fields, then that would be fair, however creating a rule that bans a foreigner, will only increase tensions, possibly creating a ban against Americans in similar conferences held in China. Maybe China bans US nationals from a conference on Architecture? Then US opinion gets increasingly anti-China, forgetting the pretext that caused said most recent bad decision. I guess what I'm trying to say is that bad policy builds up technical-debt, especially in foreign affairs.
papaf 13y ago
I don't understand the "national security" reasoning behind it. China is one of the most peaceful countries on Earth. I cannot think of it committing a single aggressive military act in the last 20 years. European countries and the US are amongst the most aggressive countries in the world when it comes to military action. Pretend that you are not Western and think about it for a second. How crazy is this?
- algorias 13y ago
  > the US are amongst the most aggressive countries in the world You have the answer right there.
- Sharlin 13y ago
  Eh, it is about the supposed threat of industrial espionage, of course. China is an economic threat to the USA, not a direct military one.
  - papaf 13y ago
    Economic threats are not national security issues - if they were the current Government shutdown would not be tolerated.
    - TsiCClawOfLight 13y ago
      honestly, I think some parts of the government are just too stupid to see how much the shutdown affects the business lobby.
    - Sharlin 13y ago
      It seems just about anything can be justified as a "national security issue" these days...
  - lake99 13y ago
    > China is an economic threat to the USA I hope you don't really believe that, and are only talking about it from the politician's point of view. China owns the US. [1] [1] http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/moneymatters/ss/How-Much-US-Debt-Does-China-Own.htm http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/moneymatters/ss/How-Much-US-De...
- ChrisNorstrom 13y ago
  Very true. Whites in particular have historically been the most violent in human history when looking at War counts and Death tolls. However, things can change very quickly. This issue however, is NOT about China's military threat (they're peaceful and mind their own business which I respect a lot). China has a tendency to rip off / steal other people's IP, call it "Chinese Innovation" and turn around to sell it as their own on the international market. They've done this with High Speed Rail technology, beginning to do it with Maglev technology, and most recently..... Drones. They've reverse engineered drones to bypass decades of research (which they openly admit to) and are selling them. Which is probably why the US wants to keep them out of anything related to Aerospace. Even Elon Musk knows this which is why he's avoiding patents. The Chinese will just work around them, repatent and call it "Chinese Innovation". http://www.benzinga.com/news/13/03/3451756/is-elon-musks-spacex-protected-without-patents http://www.benzinga.com/news/13/03/3451756/is-elon-musks-spa... "if we published patents, it would be farcical, because the Chinese would just use them as a recipe book." - Elon Musk Their copy-cat culture is starting to cost them.
  - papaf 13y ago
    Thanks for the thoughtful reply. However, I still cannot see why this a national security problem. The ban on researchers attending conferences is for "national security" reasons. That's war talk.
    - TsiCClawOfLight 13y ago
      The (US) government is run by the top 1%. Everything is about money.
    - ChrisNorstrom 13y ago
      The US does that all the time. "National Security" is code word for "we don't want to get into the reasons".
chestnut-tree 13y ago
"it seems NASA has no choice but to implement this despicable law" They had the choice of taking a principled stand and deciding not to go ahead with the conference. Either the event is open to all nationalities or to none. If they had cancelled the conference, not only would it have generated lots of publicity, it would also have put this discriminatory law under the spotlight and brought it to the attention of the wider public.

tokenizer 13y ago

Well NASA is run by the government, and the government passed this law. I'm in your boat, but I think you're right. However if they violated it it would be interesting to see who'd be thrown under the bus. That said this is just another law designed to further tension IMO. If you created a rule that designated the information conferences were bilateral, and that the nations all share in their fields, then that would be fair, however creating a rule that bans a foreigner, will only increase tensions, possibly creating a ban against Americans in similar conferences held in China. Maybe China bans US nationals from a conference on Architecture? Then US opinion gets increasingly anti-China, forgetting the pretext that caused said most recent bad decision. I guess what I'm trying to say is that bad policy builds up technical-debt, especially in foreign affairs.

papaf 13y ago

I don't understand the "national security" reasoning behind it. China is one of the most peaceful countries on Earth. I cannot think of it committing a single aggressive military act in the last 20 years. European countries and the US are amongst the most aggressive countries in the world when it comes to military action. Pretend that you are not Western and think about it for a second. How crazy is this?

algorias 13y ago
> the US are amongst the most aggressive countries in the world You have the answer right there.
Sharlin 13y ago
Eh, it is about the supposed threat of industrial espionage, of course. China is an economic threat to the USA, not a direct military one.
- papaf 13y ago
  Economic threats are not national security issues - if they were the current Government shutdown would not be tolerated.
  - TsiCClawOfLight 13y ago
    honestly, I think some parts of the government are just too stupid to see how much the shutdown affects the business lobby.
  - Sharlin 13y ago
    It seems just about anything can be justified as a "national security issue" these days...
- lake99 13y ago
  > China is an economic threat to the USA I hope you don't really believe that, and are only talking about it from the politician's point of view. China owns the US. [1] [1] http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/moneymatters/ss/How-Much-US-Debt-Does-China-Own.htm http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/moneymatters/ss/How-Much-US-De...
ChrisNorstrom 13y ago
Very true. Whites in particular have historically been the most violent in human history when looking at War counts and Death tolls. However, things can change very quickly. This issue however, is NOT about China's military threat (they're peaceful and mind their own business which I respect a lot). China has a tendency to rip off / steal other people's IP, call it "Chinese Innovation" and turn around to sell it as their own on the international market. They've done this with High Speed Rail technology, beginning to do it with Maglev technology, and most recently..... Drones. They've reverse engineered drones to bypass decades of research (which they openly admit to) and are selling them. Which is probably why the US wants to keep them out of anything related to Aerospace. Even Elon Musk knows this which is why he's avoiding patents. The Chinese will just work around them, repatent and call it "Chinese Innovation". http://www.benzinga.com/news/13/03/3451756/is-elon-musks-spacex-protected-without-patents http://www.benzinga.com/news/13/03/3451756/is-elon-musks-spa... "if we published patents, it would be farcical, because the Chinese would just use them as a recipe book." - Elon Musk Their copy-cat culture is starting to cost them.
- papaf 13y ago
  Thanks for the thoughtful reply. However, I still cannot see why this a national security problem. The ban on researchers attending conferences is for "national security" reasons. That's war talk.
  - TsiCClawOfLight 13y ago
    The (US) government is run by the top 1%. Everything is about money.
  - ChrisNorstrom 13y ago
    The US does that all the time. "National Security" is code word for "we don't want to get into the reasons".

chestnut-tree 13y ago

"it seems NASA has no choice but to implement this despicable law" They had the choice of taking a principled stand and deciding not to go ahead with the conference. Either the event is open to all nationalities or to none. If they had cancelled the conference, not only would it have generated lots of publicity, it would also have put this discriminatory law under the spotlight and brought it to the attention of the wider public.