13 ms·

Phrases like, "The myth of burn out" and "Burn out is just a rationalization for giving up early" give me great pause. Burn out is real. It is dangerous, and e

by Arjuna 13y ago

Phrases like, "The myth of burn out" and "Burn out is just a rationalization for giving up early" give me great pause. Burn out is real. It is dangerous, and even an overwhelming, driving passion for your work, your creation, can lead to disaster. Ed Catmull recounted this story about the production of Toy Story 2 [1]: "So we came back, John [Lasseter] told the story crew to take a good rest over the holidays, and come back on January 2nd... we were re-boarding the movie. We had 8 months left. We then started this incredibly intense effort to get this movie out. It was boarded quickly, it was pitched to the company, it was an electrifying pitch. We had a lot of over-achieving people working for over-achieving managers to get the movie out. We worked brutal hours with this. When I say "brutal", we had a number of people that were injured with RSI [2], one of them permanently left the field. We had, actually, a married couple that worked there. This was in June, so it's summer, and the father was supposed to drop the baby off at daycare, but forgot; don't know why... but came and left the baby in the car, and came into work. Again, as the heat was rising, the mother asked... they realized and they rushed out: the baby was unconscious. The right thing was done, they put ice-water on the baby. The baby ended up being fine in the end, but it was one of those traumatic things, like, 'Why did this happen, are they working too hard?' So when I say it was intense, it really was intense." [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2h2lvhzMDc&t=1064 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2h2lvhzMDc&t=1064 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repetitive_strain_injury https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repetitive_strain_injury

munificent 13y ago
> This was in June, so it's summer, and the father was supposed to drop the baby off at daycare, but forgot; don't know why... but came and left the baby in the car, and came into work. Several years ago, I almost did the same thing with my infant daughter. Put her car seat in the back seat. Got in. Started driving. On auto-pilot started heading towards the office. It was only when she happened to make a sound (she often slept on the way to daycare) that I remembered she was still in the truck. A combination of factors led to this: 1. I wasn't getting anywhere near enough sleep at night with feedings every few hours. 2. Carseats can't go in the front seat anymore. Good for safety, but bad for remembering a kid is in the car since they're out of sight. 3. Did I mention I wasn't getting enough sleep?
- nervousvarun 13y ago
  Seems like an opportunity for an app (disclaimer: obviously did not do my due diligence and google if there was one first. T minus X seconds in counting until the first 'there already is one' post).
  - shubb 13y ago
    If you get your baby an android phone, at least you can use the Locate function to find out where you left them...
  - jbigelow76 13y ago
    I've thought this too, something with an NFC connection being broken maybe. But then I think about the lawsuit that would probably ensue the first time it didn't work...
  - Miyamoto 13y ago
    When you leave the house you check that your keys are present in your pocket/purse/backpack/etc. When you leave the car you need to check that your kid is not present. A simple solution would be to put whatever it is you require at work, such as your wallet/backpack/briefcase, right next to your kid in the backseat. You should check for your wallet/backpack/briefcase before you leave the car, which in turn will have you check the presence of your kid.
- rayiner 13y ago
  The not sleeping thing is a bitch. Mine is almost a year and still needs to be topped off a couple of times overnight.
  - christkv 13y ago
    We had the same problem but realized the bottle was the sleep prop and started giving water instead and eventually replaced the bottle with a teddy bear.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
dinkumthinkum 13y ago
Yes, but "burn out" can be both real and *rare". Similarly, "burn out" can be a rationalization for giving up early. I think burn out and "stagnation" are very, very real, but I think they are much less common than is cited by people. It is certainly not something that occurs over two months.
sliverstorm 13y ago
I agree it's real, but I also agree people use it as a cop-out. I definitely don't see it happening over a short timeframe at a normal job. Only time I got any real burnout, was for my capstone at Uni. I had been working around the clock (up to 80hr weeks) for three months solid. Sidenote, It was actually kind of a cool experiment. I knew I would burn out; I also knew it was worth it (being my capstone). So I got the experience of attempting to forestall burnout just long enough to make our goals. Was a good experience learning about myself.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
fennecfoxen 13y ago
Also, burn-out is NOT a rationalization for giving up early. Burn-out is when you should have given up a long time ago, but you keep pushing yourself too hard instead, and then you fall apart and have difficulty functioning as a human being (to say nothing of performing your job). The article author might have a point or two about a variety of young actors in the workforce, but they're masked by this and other bits of far-too-tidy preachiness. He's full of it.
- neltnerb 13y ago
  I feel like the author is conflating the desire to not be bored with burn-out. It's bizarre that anyone could be that confused about what is going on. No one who has completed a multi-year project actually thinks that there will never be days when you're bored, or that it's good to jump around from project to project. This is like startup 101 stuff, you can't do a company that does everything, you have to define a project goal and stick to it. Which makes everything else in the post pretty nonsensical. I think the best you can do is try to understand first your priorities, and then understand what makes you function well so that you can push through those boring, emotionally draining, and frustrating times. I recently wrote about this for myself, although I'm far from figuring it all out. Still working on how to phrase it all, but maybe someone will find it useful despite my lack of writing skill. http://blog.saikoled.com/post/62737468595/entrepreneurship-for-a-good-life http://blog.saikoled.com/post/62737468595/entrepreneurship-f...
  - JimboOmega 13y ago
    He absolutely is conflating the two types of burnout - the "my health and human relationships are falling apart and it's destroying me" type and the "I just don't have any passion for this work any more". Granted, the former can lead to the latter (especially when it leads to you losing passion for anything). It's a shame because he is still making a very valid point. It's not just startups that this should really be targetted at - there are plenty of people who feel like being bored at work is a sign you need a new job, stat. Work is supposed to be challenging and fun, right?! And in the worlds of the SF Bay Tech Culture, at least, it's quite possible to live that way; to switch to the cool new company every couple years, or to jump to a new project within your larger corporation. Of course, it's also totally possible to toil away at an unsatisfying job for no significant benefit. You have to step away some times - often, even - and ask if it's really taking your life in a direction you want to go. It's crazy how much I've learned about a lot of these things as I've gotten older. But in other ways, I feel like I'm learning at 30 what other people learned at 20.
Smudge 13y ago
It's worth noting that the original "i quit" post never mentioned burnout. I didn't get the impression that it had anything to do with loren's reason for leaving, so it's strange for the reply post to bring it up like that.
- dkuntz2 13y ago
  This article wasn't solely a response to that one post, but to the general feeling perpetuated by HN. There are a good deal of other posts that show up on HN where someone misattributes boredom to burnout.
Amadou 13y ago
This was in June, so it's summer, and the father was supposed to drop the baby off at daycare, but forgot; don't know why... but came and left the baby in the car, and came into work. As an aside... There was a Pulitzer Prize winning article about the phenomenon of parents forgetting their children in the backseat and leaving them to die in the heat. The main take-away is that it can happen to anyone. It isn't a matter of malicious or inattentive parents, it usually happens when there is a variation in routine that distracts the parent and pulls focus from the kid. http://www.pulitzer.org/works/2010-Feature-Writing http://www.pulitzer.org/works/2010-Feature-Writing
- rodgerd 13y ago
  Do not read that story, by the way, unless you want nightmares.
  - scott_s 13y ago
    I read it a year or so ago, and yes, it is terrifying.
- georgemcbay 13y ago
  That's pretty terrifying. Seems like a good candidate for an "internet of things" solution in the future, eg. a baby seat with a weight sensor, thermometer and 3G data connection (or optionally, some tie in to OnStar, Sync or just the alarm system on a modern bluetooth-capable car) that could alert you and/or automatically pull down the electric windows in a panic mode. Granted, you'd have to be careful to ensure you don't create a solution people form a false sense of security around since the communications or electronics could fail, but it seems like overall this might save some babies.
  - ludicast 13y ago
    I like this a lot. Seems genuinely useful. A simple version might be something that beeps like a seatbelt-detector if there is weight in back seat but not in front.
abofh 13y ago
based on his 2004 graduation, this is a kid - let him write it again in 15 years.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
hhandoko 13y ago
A similar incident happened a couple of days ago [1]. Unfortunately, the baby did not survive despite attempts to resuscitate him. [1] - http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/baby-boy-found-dead-in-daycare-carpark/story-fnhocxo3-1226731820768 http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/baby-boy-f...

by Arjuna 13y ago

munificent 13y ago

> This was in June, so it's summer, and the father was supposed to drop the baby off at daycare, but forgot; don't know why... but came and left the baby in the car, and came into work. Several years ago, I almost did the same thing with my infant daughter. Put her car seat in the back seat. Got in. Started driving. On auto-pilot started heading towards the office. It was only when she happened to make a sound (she often slept on the way to daycare) that I remembered she was still in the truck. A combination of factors led to this: 1. I wasn't getting anywhere near enough sleep at night with feedings every few hours. 2. Carseats can't go in the front seat anymore. Good for safety, but bad for remembering a kid is in the car since they're out of sight. 3. Did I mention I wasn't getting enough sleep?

nervousvarun 13y ago
Seems like an opportunity for an app (disclaimer: obviously did not do my due diligence and google if there was one first. T minus X seconds in counting until the first 'there already is one' post).
- shubb 13y ago
  If you get your baby an android phone, at least you can use the Locate function to find out where you left them...
- jbigelow76 13y ago
  I've thought this too, something with an NFC connection being broken maybe. But then I think about the lawsuit that would probably ensue the first time it didn't work...
- Miyamoto 13y ago
  When you leave the house you check that your keys are present in your pocket/purse/backpack/etc. When you leave the car you need to check that your kid is not present. A simple solution would be to put whatever it is you require at work, such as your wallet/backpack/briefcase, right next to your kid in the backseat. You should check for your wallet/backpack/briefcase before you leave the car, which in turn will have you check the presence of your kid.
rayiner 13y ago
The not sleeping thing is a bitch. Mine is almost a year and still needs to be topped off a couple of times overnight.
- christkv 13y ago
  We had the same problem but realized the bottle was the sleep prop and started giving water instead and eventually replaced the bottle with a teddy bear.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

dinkumthinkum 13y ago

Yes, but "burn out" can be both real and *rare". Similarly, "burn out" can be a rationalization for giving up early. I think burn out and "stagnation" are very, very real, but I think they are much less common than is cited by people. It is certainly not something that occurs over two months.

sliverstorm 13y ago

I agree it's real, but I also agree people use it as a cop-out. I definitely don't see it happening over a short timeframe at a normal job. Only time I got any real burnout, was for my capstone at Uni. I had been working around the clock (up to 80hr weeks) for three months solid. Sidenote, It was actually kind of a cool experiment. I knew I would burn out; I also knew it was worth it (being my capstone). So I got the experience of attempting to forestall burnout just long enough to make our goals. Was a good experience learning about myself.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

fennecfoxen 13y ago

Also, burn-out is NOT a rationalization for giving up early. Burn-out is when you should have given up a long time ago, but you keep pushing yourself too hard instead, and then you fall apart and have difficulty functioning as a human being (to say nothing of performing your job). The article author might have a point or two about a variety of young actors in the workforce, but they're masked by this and other bits of far-too-tidy preachiness. He's full of it.

neltnerb 13y ago
I feel like the author is conflating the desire to not be bored with burn-out. It's bizarre that anyone could be that confused about what is going on. No one who has completed a multi-year project actually thinks that there will never be days when you're bored, or that it's good to jump around from project to project. This is like startup 101 stuff, you can't do a company that does everything, you have to define a project goal and stick to it. Which makes everything else in the post pretty nonsensical. I think the best you can do is try to understand first your priorities, and then understand what makes you function well so that you can push through those boring, emotionally draining, and frustrating times. I recently wrote about this for myself, although I'm far from figuring it all out. Still working on how to phrase it all, but maybe someone will find it useful despite my lack of writing skill. http://blog.saikoled.com/post/62737468595/entrepreneurship-for-a-good-life http://blog.saikoled.com/post/62737468595/entrepreneurship-f...
- JimboOmega 13y ago
  He absolutely is conflating the two types of burnout - the "my health and human relationships are falling apart and it's destroying me" type and the "I just don't have any passion for this work any more". Granted, the former can lead to the latter (especially when it leads to you losing passion for anything). It's a shame because he is still making a very valid point. It's not just startups that this should really be targetted at - there are plenty of people who feel like being bored at work is a sign you need a new job, stat. Work is supposed to be challenging and fun, right?! And in the worlds of the SF Bay Tech Culture, at least, it's quite possible to live that way; to switch to the cool new company every couple years, or to jump to a new project within your larger corporation. Of course, it's also totally possible to toil away at an unsatisfying job for no significant benefit. You have to step away some times - often, even - and ask if it's really taking your life in a direction you want to go. It's crazy how much I've learned about a lot of these things as I've gotten older. But in other ways, I feel like I'm learning at 30 what other people learned at 20.

Smudge 13y ago

It's worth noting that the original "i quit" post never mentioned burnout. I didn't get the impression that it had anything to do with loren's reason for leaving, so it's strange for the reply post to bring it up like that.

dkuntz2 13y ago
This article wasn't solely a response to that one post, but to the general feeling perpetuated by HN. There are a good deal of other posts that show up on HN where someone misattributes boredom to burnout.

Amadou 13y ago

This was in June, so it's summer, and the father was supposed to drop the baby off at daycare, but forgot; don't know why... but came and left the baby in the car, and came into work. As an aside... There was a Pulitzer Prize winning article about the phenomenon of parents forgetting their children in the backseat and leaving them to die in the heat. The main take-away is that it can happen to anyone. It isn't a matter of malicious or inattentive parents, it usually happens when there is a variation in routine that distracts the parent and pulls focus from the kid. http://www.pulitzer.org/works/2010-Feature-Writing http://www.pulitzer.org/works/2010-Feature-Writing

rodgerd 13y ago
Do not read that story, by the way, unless you want nightmares.
- scott_s 13y ago
  I read it a year or so ago, and yes, it is terrifying.
georgemcbay 13y ago
That's pretty terrifying. Seems like a good candidate for an "internet of things" solution in the future, eg. a baby seat with a weight sensor, thermometer and 3G data connection (or optionally, some tie in to OnStar, Sync or just the alarm system on a modern bluetooth-capable car) that could alert you and/or automatically pull down the electric windows in a panic mode. Granted, you'd have to be careful to ensure you don't create a solution people form a false sense of security around since the communications or electronics could fail, but it seems like overall this might save some babies.
- ludicast 13y ago
  I like this a lot. Seems genuinely useful. A simple version might be something that beeps like a seatbelt-detector if there is weight in back seat but not in front.

abofh 13y ago

based on his 2004 graduation, this is a kid - let him write it again in 15 years.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

hhandoko 13y ago

A similar incident happened a couple of days ago [1]. Unfortunately, the baby did not survive despite attempts to resuscitate him. [1] - http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/baby-boy-found-dead-in-daycare-carpark/story-fnhocxo3-1226731820768 http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/baby-boy-f...