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'Everyone has had enough of Amazon' By "everyone", they undoubtedly mean the ones who could not compete. Amazon's customers are probably not complaining.

by noarchy 13y ago

JanezStupar 13y ago
Not until Amazon gets rid of all the potential competition.
- GeorgeOrr 13y ago
  I just hope the government goes a step further and requires Amazon increase their costs and charge double the shipping. That way the customers will be protected.
  - JanezStupar 13y ago
    That is obviously a stupid idea. Regardless, that is the most probable and common measure to be taken by the governments worldwide. Because it is straightforward, incredibly lazy and bottom feeding. It is interesting how in two comments we have encompased what are the two greatest flaws of practical governments and free markets. In my oppinion this is a failure of competing merchants as they are sleeping and do not see writing on the wall. Instead of adapting they look up to the regulators to save their comfortable industries. Which in itself is a flaw of the modern western socioeconomic situation. IMHO its a fact that Amazon is constantly maneouvering towards a situation where it becomes dangerous due to its modus operandi. To be safe from Amazon threat, producers will have to find access to markets in a fashion that will prevent them from over exposing themselves to Amazon. And any good regulation should be about lowering barrier to entry towards would be Amazon competitors. I am certain that eventually producers will have to cut out the middleman (Amazon) or vice versa.
adrianb 13y ago
I guess you're not familiar with the social-minded European person. They often prefer local businesses with a personality (I go to the book store and have a chat with the owner and other customers... maybe drink a tea, read something right there...) to the big corporation, even when the big corporation offers the same products cheaper.
- davidw 13y ago
  Which is why Amazon was really struggling in France?
- pauletienney 13y ago
  You are not totally right. A lot a book sellers are suffering because of Internet competition (especially Amazon), in France.
- GeorgeOrr 13y ago
  If that's the case, why do they need to pass a law preventing giving the customers a discount? Apparently, it's the competition that doesn't like it. Oddly, customers like discounts and free shipping. Good thing the French government is there to set them straight.
  - rustynails 13y ago
    Should we ban anti-dumping laws? Think about your post for a moment - if a company can afford to run at a loss long enough to destroy the competition, is that good in any way? There is always a balance between service and price ... If there is competition and a level playing field.
- icebraining 13y ago
  That's a great fairy tale. In reality, at least where I live, is that local businesses don't have accommodations for reading (unlike chain stores like Fnac), the employees can't tell Dostoyevsky from Dan Brown and the selection is simply terrible. So what's been happening is that chain stores have been eating independent book stores alive well before online shopping was widespread.
- spongle 13y ago
  That's what people portray us social minded Europeans as but realistically, the majority will tell local businesses to get fucked when it comes down to it. Why? Price, poor products and service and "blame it on the customer" culture. Local businesses have been hanging themselves for years on these fronts. Amazon sorts the above perfectly and you don't have to leave your house.
flexie 13y ago
I am a European Amazon customer and I have had enough. Amazon is a heavily subsidized corporation. It operates from a tax shelter (Luxembourg). It underpays it's American staff (who are then receiving US welfare as supplement in order to survive). Giving away delivery for free is a form of predatory pricing. In general, large market players have been banned from predatory pricing under European competition law for decades. Competition is great but let's not pretend that Amazon is outcompeting other (online) bookstores fair and square.
- jbooth 13y ago
  If we're being completely fair, Amazon's willingness to run in the red for almost 20 years and continually sacrifice profits for market share probably has a lot to do with their prices, too. But your points are worth noting, and Americans might feel a little differently if it was a foreign corporation.
- jzwinck 13y ago
  Which American Amazon.com employees are receiving US welfare checks? I tried to locate a source for this claim, but came up short.
  - throwaway9101 13y ago
    Possibly an exaggeration, but OP is probably referring to the workers who run Amazon's fulfilment centers.
    - seanmcdirmid 13y ago
      Those fulfillment centers serve Europe?
  - jbooth 13y ago
    It's not Amazon employees, actually, their warehouses are staffed by those terrible day-labor contract places where people show up and wait for hours unpaid to find out if they get to work for minimum wage later in the day. I've seen a lot of sources for Wal-Mart employees under similar pay levels. It was SNAP, TANF and Medicaid primarily, not so much 'welfare'. Still a sizable subsidy, and a decent % of those people's ultimate pay/benefit package.
gadders 13y ago
That's the whole point of free markets and competition. The point isn't that they're good for companies, it's that they are good for consumers.
- gibwell 13y ago
  Predatory pricing and monopolistic practices are not good for consumers. That's why they are illegal.
  - mseebach 13y ago
    Exactly. So if Amazon was guilty of that, they could be charged under those laws. If that is the true justification for the new law, it is at best "pre-crime" enforcement - protecting Amazon from themselves, from getting into a situation where them might risk committing predatory pricing and monopolistic practices. More realistically, follow the money and apply basic public choice theory. It's not like the economic history of the world hasn't seen this pattern a few hundred times before.
- hackerboos 13y ago
  >That's the whole point of free markets and competition. I know! Those independent bookstores should just move to Luxembourg so they can compete with Amazon.

'Everyone has had enough of Amazon' By "everyone", they undoubtedly mean the ones who could not compete. Amazon's customers are probably not complaining.

by noarchy 13y ago

'Everyone has had enough of Amazon' By "everyone", they undoubtedly mean the ones who could not compete. Amazon's customers are probably not complaining.

JanezStupar 13y ago

Not until Amazon gets rid of all the potential competition.

GeorgeOrr 13y ago
I just hope the government goes a step further and requires Amazon increase their costs and charge double the shipping. That way the customers will be protected.
- JanezStupar 13y ago
  That is obviously a stupid idea. Regardless, that is the most probable and common measure to be taken by the governments worldwide. Because it is straightforward, incredibly lazy and bottom feeding. It is interesting how in two comments we have encompased what are the two greatest flaws of practical governments and free markets. In my oppinion this is a failure of competing merchants as they are sleeping and do not see writing on the wall. Instead of adapting they look up to the regulators to save their comfortable industries. Which in itself is a flaw of the modern western socioeconomic situation. IMHO its a fact that Amazon is constantly maneouvering towards a situation where it becomes dangerous due to its modus operandi. To be safe from Amazon threat, producers will have to find access to markets in a fashion that will prevent them from over exposing themselves to Amazon. And any good regulation should be about lowering barrier to entry towards would be Amazon competitors. I am certain that eventually producers will have to cut out the middleman (Amazon) or vice versa.

adrianb 13y ago

I guess you're not familiar with the social-minded European person. They often prefer local businesses with a personality (I go to the book store and have a chat with the owner and other customers... maybe drink a tea, read something right there...) to the big corporation, even when the big corporation offers the same products cheaper.

davidw 13y ago
Which is why Amazon was really struggling in France?
pauletienney 13y ago
You are not totally right. A lot a book sellers are suffering because of Internet competition (especially Amazon), in France.
GeorgeOrr 13y ago
If that's the case, why do they need to pass a law preventing giving the customers a discount? Apparently, it's the competition that doesn't like it. Oddly, customers like discounts and free shipping. Good thing the French government is there to set them straight.
- rustynails 13y ago
  Should we ban anti-dumping laws? Think about your post for a moment - if a company can afford to run at a loss long enough to destroy the competition, is that good in any way? There is always a balance between service and price ... If there is competition and a level playing field.
icebraining 13y ago
That's a great fairy tale. In reality, at least where I live, is that local businesses don't have accommodations for reading (unlike chain stores like Fnac), the employees can't tell Dostoyevsky from Dan Brown and the selection is simply terrible. So what's been happening is that chain stores have been eating independent book stores alive well before online shopping was widespread.
spongle 13y ago
That's what people portray us social minded Europeans as but realistically, the majority will tell local businesses to get fucked when it comes down to it. Why? Price, poor products and service and "blame it on the customer" culture. Local businesses have been hanging themselves for years on these fronts. Amazon sorts the above perfectly and you don't have to leave your house.

flexie 13y ago

I am a European Amazon customer and I have had enough. Amazon is a heavily subsidized corporation. It operates from a tax shelter (Luxembourg). It underpays it's American staff (who are then receiving US welfare as supplement in order to survive). Giving away delivery for free is a form of predatory pricing. In general, large market players have been banned from predatory pricing under European competition law for decades. Competition is great but let's not pretend that Amazon is outcompeting other (online) bookstores fair and square.

jbooth 13y ago
If we're being completely fair, Amazon's willingness to run in the red for almost 20 years and continually sacrifice profits for market share probably has a lot to do with their prices, too. But your points are worth noting, and Americans might feel a little differently if it was a foreign corporation.
jzwinck 13y ago
Which American Amazon.com employees are receiving US welfare checks? I tried to locate a source for this claim, but came up short.
- throwaway9101 13y ago
  Possibly an exaggeration, but OP is probably referring to the workers who run Amazon's fulfilment centers.
  - seanmcdirmid 13y ago
    Those fulfillment centers serve Europe?
- jbooth 13y ago
  It's not Amazon employees, actually, their warehouses are staffed by those terrible day-labor contract places where people show up and wait for hours unpaid to find out if they get to work for minimum wage later in the day. I've seen a lot of sources for Wal-Mart employees under similar pay levels. It was SNAP, TANF and Medicaid primarily, not so much 'welfare'. Still a sizable subsidy, and a decent % of those people's ultimate pay/benefit package.

gadders 13y ago

That's the whole point of free markets and competition. The point isn't that they're good for companies, it's that they are good for consumers.

gibwell 13y ago
Predatory pricing and monopolistic practices are not good for consumers. That's why they are illegal.
- mseebach 13y ago
  Exactly. So if Amazon was guilty of that, they could be charged under those laws. If that is the true justification for the new law, it is at best "pre-crime" enforcement - protecting Amazon from themselves, from getting into a situation where them might risk committing predatory pricing and monopolistic practices. More realistically, follow the money and apply basic public choice theory. It's not like the economic history of the world hasn't seen this pattern a few hundred times before.
hackerboos 13y ago
>That's the whole point of free markets and competition. I know! Those independent bookstores should just move to Luxembourg so they can compete with Amazon.