3 ms·

At least no renter is upside down on their mortgage right now.

ars 17y ago
Renters didn't loose money on the down true, but they also didn't gain any on the up (and they may have paid more rent). For a single person it could be a big difference (some are up, some are down). But over the whole US it's a wash - the number of people who are upside down is exactly balanced by the number of people who made a lot by selling.
- biohacker42 17y ago
  But over the whole US it's a wash - the number of people who are upside down is exactly balanced by the number of people who made a lot by selling. There's no such implied symmetry in markets. Trading is often very asymmetrical.
  - ars 17y ago
    > Trading is often very asymmetrical. Explain please. Because if you paid too much on your house, and are now upside down, the person you bought it from has more money than before. It seems symmetrical to me.
    - biohacker42 17y ago
      Person A: Invest 10 borrow 90, sell for 120, profit 10. Person B: Invest 10, borrow 90, sell...oops market has turned, default on borrowed money. Bank folds, CDOs lose their AAA credit rating, investors lose their saving investing in CDOs. Total profit 10, total loses due to leverage: far far greater then 10.
      - ars 17y ago
        And the person that you bought it from in step B made money, and you lost money. I still see a perfect symmetry.
jbarciauskas 17y ago
Yes but many many landlords are, which cause some very sad stories of people being kicked out of their house or apartment because the bank foreclosed on the landlord. Renters have almost no rights in that situation.
- jraines 17y ago
  Yeah, and sometimes the renters first notice is the deputy showing up telling them they've got 2 hours to get out before the locks are changed. Apparently there are cops in Vegas working 12 hour days just doing evictions.
  - asciilifeform 17y ago
    > there are cops in Vegas working 12 hour days just doing evictions They had better hope that there will never be a revolution which results in class-traitors being correctly dealt with.
- nradov 17y ago
  That is no longer correct. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30891380/ http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30891380/

ars 17y ago

Renters didn't loose money on the down true, but they also didn't gain any on the up (and they may have paid more rent). For a single person it could be a big difference (some are up, some are down). But over the whole US it's a wash - the number of people who are upside down is exactly balanced by the number of people who made a lot by selling.

biohacker42 17y ago
But over the whole US it's a wash - the number of people who are upside down is exactly balanced by the number of people who made a lot by selling. There's no such implied symmetry in markets. Trading is often very asymmetrical.
- ars 17y ago
  > Trading is often very asymmetrical. Explain please. Because if you paid too much on your house, and are now upside down, the person you bought it from has more money than before. It seems symmetrical to me.
  - biohacker42 17y ago
    Person A: Invest 10 borrow 90, sell for 120, profit 10. Person B: Invest 10, borrow 90, sell...oops market has turned, default on borrowed money. Bank folds, CDOs lose their AAA credit rating, investors lose their saving investing in CDOs. Total profit 10, total loses due to leverage: far far greater then 10.
    - ars 17y ago
      And the person that you bought it from in step B made money, and you lost money. I still see a perfect symmetry.

jbarciauskas 17y ago

Yes but many many landlords are, which cause some very sad stories of people being kicked out of their house or apartment because the bank foreclosed on the landlord. Renters have almost no rights in that situation.

jraines 17y ago
Yeah, and sometimes the renters first notice is the deputy showing up telling them they've got 2 hours to get out before the locks are changed. Apparently there are cops in Vegas working 12 hour days just doing evictions.
- asciilifeform 17y ago
  > there are cops in Vegas working 12 hour days just doing evictions They had better hope that there will never be a revolution which results in class-traitors being correctly dealt with.
nradov 17y ago
That is no longer correct. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30891380/ http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30891380/