6 ms·

If you were to ask me to choose between Steam Controller and a 360 controller, I would choose 360...if tomorrow all game controllers were wiped off the earth an

by 300bps 13y ago

If you were to ask me to choose between Steam Controller and a 360 controller, I would choose 360...if tomorrow all game controllers were wiped off the earth and the only option was the Steam Controller, I don’t think this would be a bad thing. Resounding endorsement.

afterburner 13y ago
Yeah, but the "..." in your quote has the all-important qualifier: ...Don’t take that as slight to the controller though because it’s more about the comfort of familiarity over functionality. I would choose a 360 controller because I have several thousand hours experience using it, however...
tylerkahn 13y ago
I think it actually is considering that both games he played were platformers (SMB and Spelunky). The 360 controller is pretty much the ideal controller for that genre so if the Steam controller can reach parity that's a big deal. The real test is how it performs with twitch FPSs and games like DOTA.
- StavrosK 13y ago
  As someone who has wasted a lot of their life on DOTA2, I can't see me playing it with a controller. There's just too much accuracy involved in clicking for that (and that's saying something, because the accuracy required is nowhere near that of an FPS).
  - asperous 13y ago
    The dota2 quick-chat wheel suddenly just made sense.
    - StavrosK 13y ago
      Well, that's just good design, I don't think they were explicitly thinking of the controller.
  - sliverstorm 13y ago
    Does DOTA2 really require that much less accuracy? I've found in FPS games, the amount of accuracy required is often proportional to the time you have to make the shot, while in DOTA2 it goes the other way- the more units on-screen, the less time you have to act, and the more difficult it is to select the right unit.
    - StavrosK 13y ago
      I guess it depends, if you're sniping you need a lot of accuracy. Then again, I can't say I've never ultied a creep...
      - sliverstorm 13y ago
        Right, but if you're sniping you generally have time to chose your shot, and more than a few seconds to make it. In DOTA2 in the middle of a teamfight, the whole tide of the engagement can change in 1-2 seconds, and when there's creeps everywhere it can get more difficult to mouse-select your target.
    - xerophtye 13y ago
      Long time Halo veteran here so i dont really see why this would pose problems on FPS games.
      - TsiCClawOfLight 13y ago
        Microsoft tried pitting average pc players against pro console players. [1] Guess what happened? The pro's got destroyed... Skill in Halo is mostly coping with the bad controller. Skill in Counter-Strike is very different... [1]http://www.rahulsood.com/2010/07/console-gamers-get-killed-against-pc.html http://www.rahulsood.com/2010/07/console-gamers-get-killed-a...
  - dombili 13y ago
    Agreed. Having said that, I think something like this would work: For clicking and targeting, you have the touch screen. Dota 2 is a 5vs5 player game. Controller can display all your enemies on the touch screen, just as you'd normally see their profile pictures at the top of your screen. You can click on their profile pictures to target them when they're visible on the map etc. As for the movement, I think movement could be much better with a game controller. You probably can not click on a map and wait for your hero to go to the spot you've clicked on, but you can direct him there with one of the touchpads. I think another big problem would be using the shops. In the current style of the game, I don't think it'd be possible to use the shops with a controller because there are just too many items. Having said that, if Valve really wants people to play Dota 2 with a game controller, I'm sure they can implement some changes. Currently in game items are seperated in categories. They can use that wheel chat idea with the shop and let players browse through the items. I'm just brainstorming. It can be done. 2 different UI implementations for 2 different platforms, but one game. I'm not saying these changes or even playing Dota 2 with a game controller would be ideal, but I think it's doable to make the game controller friendly. But there's no way in hell I'm going to give up on my mouse and keyboard for Dota 2 and most of the games that I play (apart from the sports games).
    - StavrosK 13y ago
      You can work the shops easily enough with the quick buy button, but there's no way in hell I'm taking my eyes off the screen when in a fight to look down at my controller so I can target someone. Neither would I like people to be able to auto-target in some way and get a competitive advantage over me.
      - dombili 13y ago
        Yeah, as I said, it wouldn't be ideal. Valve would pretty much have to change the whole interface to make it more controller friendly.
  - xerophtye 13y ago
    Take it from a guy who has actually played it with a controller. I played LoL with a xbox 360 usb controller. its nearly impossibly to get it right. I had figured that this wud be fun cuz i could map the spells to the buttons but the pointer movement is so not cool. I tried higher sensitivity and the pinter was running all over the place, so brought it low so i cud aim with precision but then turning an attack into a retreat took a LOT of time. It was just a crazy experience. Maybe we could get better at it over time but i dont see why anyone would sacrifice their mouse advantage to play on a controller? it would be a huge disadvantage in a competitive game.
    - tr4656 13y ago
      That is only because a controller doesn't work well with MOBAs.
  - kayoone 13y ago
    Blizzard made really appealing console controls for Diablo3, i actually had more fun playing it than the PC version. If that would work for a competitive PvP MOBA is another story but i think it could work and player movement could even be more accurate!
- aikinai 13y ago
  I really don't think you can call the 360 controller "ideal" for platformers with its unusable d-pad. Or do people actually use sticks for platformers these days? Since the Wii U's not selling so well, most people probably don't know about it, but I think the Wii U Pro Controller is probably the best modern controller for classic gaming. It's basically a 360 controller with Nintendo quality. And people have already written drivers for Windows and OS X, and support was added to Linux in 3.11.
  - tr4656 13y ago
    Most people do actually use the stick for platformers.
nemof 13y ago
in a sense, he's touching on the essential unspoken issue here. the SteamPad is a solution looking for a problem. This is more about Valve's business positioning than it is redefining gaming. Everyone's already pretty happy with their xbox 360 controllers, but Valve isn't happy that their platform isn't in your living room. Therefore, they want to bridge the gap so those titles that wouldn't translate well to the living room are more playable. Spelunky and SMB are amazing games, but very arcadey. They're test cases that can only show that this controller adequately compares to current controllers. A better test would be hearing how people do with titles you could less readily imagine playing on a ten foot display. I want to know, as a PC gamer and input control snob: 1) does this let me handle FPS games properly (ie twitch controls to compare to mouse level quality). 2) can I play RTS style games and do stuff like macroing and movement with the fluidity of kb/mouse. 3) what advantages do I get over an xbox 360 controller, which is decent enough in most cases. 4) does the loss of thumbsticks mean a loss of tactile response? I love the sensation of movement within Dark Souls as I tap on my thumbsticks. Nubbins would be helpful it's true, but it would be nice to have detachable sticks for those of us who want them. The valve patents from a few years ago showed something like that. Of course, adding thumbsticks then basically rolls back the design to being just another joypad. I'm skeptical, possibly because in a sense the SteamPad isn't doing anything new (while yeah the haptic is probably amazing compared to anything else current), it's just trying to translate our current experience of input from the quality we get on desktops, to the couch in our living rooms.
- chc 13y ago
  > the SteamPad is a solution looking for a problem. One paragraph later you articulate the very problem for which it is a solution: > they want to bridge the gap so those titles that wouldn't translate well to the living room are more playable
- Bahamut 13y ago
  > Everyone's already pretty happy with their xbox 360 controllers I don't know about pretty happy...I really wish the 360 controllers were more like Nintendo's traditional controllers (like the Wii Classic Controller or the Wii U Pro Controller)
deleted 13y ago
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by 300bps 13y ago

afterburner 13y ago

Yeah, but the "..." in your quote has the all-important qualifier: ...Don’t take that as slight to the controller though because it’s more about the comfort of familiarity over functionality. I would choose a 360 controller because I have several thousand hours experience using it, however...

tylerkahn 13y ago

I think it actually is considering that both games he played were platformers (SMB and Spelunky). The 360 controller is pretty much the ideal controller for that genre so if the Steam controller can reach parity that's a big deal. The real test is how it performs with twitch FPSs and games like DOTA.

StavrosK 13y ago
As someone who has wasted a lot of their life on DOTA2, I can't see me playing it with a controller. There's just too much accuracy involved in clicking for that (and that's saying something, because the accuracy required is nowhere near that of an FPS).
- asperous 13y ago
  The dota2 quick-chat wheel suddenly just made sense.
  - StavrosK 13y ago
    Well, that's just good design, I don't think they were explicitly thinking of the controller.
- sliverstorm 13y ago
  Does DOTA2 really require that much less accuracy? I've found in FPS games, the amount of accuracy required is often proportional to the time you have to make the shot, while in DOTA2 it goes the other way- the more units on-screen, the less time you have to act, and the more difficult it is to select the right unit.
  - StavrosK 13y ago
    I guess it depends, if you're sniping you need a lot of accuracy. Then again, I can't say I've never ultied a creep...
    - sliverstorm 13y ago
      Right, but if you're sniping you generally have time to chose your shot, and more than a few seconds to make it. In DOTA2 in the middle of a teamfight, the whole tide of the engagement can change in 1-2 seconds, and when there's creeps everywhere it can get more difficult to mouse-select your target.
  - xerophtye 13y ago
    Long time Halo veteran here so i dont really see why this would pose problems on FPS games.
    - TsiCClawOfLight 13y ago
      Microsoft tried pitting average pc players against pro console players. [1] Guess what happened? The pro's got destroyed... Skill in Halo is mostly coping with the bad controller. Skill in Counter-Strike is very different... [1]http://www.rahulsood.com/2010/07/console-gamers-get-killed-against-pc.html http://www.rahulsood.com/2010/07/console-gamers-get-killed-a...
- dombili 13y ago
  Agreed. Having said that, I think something like this would work: For clicking and targeting, you have the touch screen. Dota 2 is a 5vs5 player game. Controller can display all your enemies on the touch screen, just as you'd normally see their profile pictures at the top of your screen. You can click on their profile pictures to target them when they're visible on the map etc. As for the movement, I think movement could be much better with a game controller. You probably can not click on a map and wait for your hero to go to the spot you've clicked on, but you can direct him there with one of the touchpads. I think another big problem would be using the shops. In the current style of the game, I don't think it'd be possible to use the shops with a controller because there are just too many items. Having said that, if Valve really wants people to play Dota 2 with a game controller, I'm sure they can implement some changes. Currently in game items are seperated in categories. They can use that wheel chat idea with the shop and let players browse through the items. I'm just brainstorming. It can be done. 2 different UI implementations for 2 different platforms, but one game. I'm not saying these changes or even playing Dota 2 with a game controller would be ideal, but I think it's doable to make the game controller friendly. But there's no way in hell I'm going to give up on my mouse and keyboard for Dota 2 and most of the games that I play (apart from the sports games).
  - StavrosK 13y ago
    You can work the shops easily enough with the quick buy button, but there's no way in hell I'm taking my eyes off the screen when in a fight to look down at my controller so I can target someone. Neither would I like people to be able to auto-target in some way and get a competitive advantage over me.
    - dombili 13y ago
      Yeah, as I said, it wouldn't be ideal. Valve would pretty much have to change the whole interface to make it more controller friendly.
- xerophtye 13y ago
  Take it from a guy who has actually played it with a controller. I played LoL with a xbox 360 usb controller. its nearly impossibly to get it right. I had figured that this wud be fun cuz i could map the spells to the buttons but the pointer movement is so not cool. I tried higher sensitivity and the pinter was running all over the place, so brought it low so i cud aim with precision but then turning an attack into a retreat took a LOT of time. It was just a crazy experience. Maybe we could get better at it over time but i dont see why anyone would sacrifice their mouse advantage to play on a controller? it would be a huge disadvantage in a competitive game.
  - tr4656 13y ago
    That is only because a controller doesn't work well with MOBAs.
- kayoone 13y ago
  Blizzard made really appealing console controls for Diablo3, i actually had more fun playing it than the PC version. If that would work for a competitive PvP MOBA is another story but i think it could work and player movement could even be more accurate!
aikinai 13y ago
I really don't think you can call the 360 controller "ideal" for platformers with its unusable d-pad. Or do people actually use sticks for platformers these days? Since the Wii U's not selling so well, most people probably don't know about it, but I think the Wii U Pro Controller is probably the best modern controller for classic gaming. It's basically a 360 controller with Nintendo quality. And people have already written drivers for Windows and OS X, and support was added to Linux in 3.11.
- tr4656 13y ago
  Most people do actually use the stick for platformers.

nemof 13y ago

in a sense, he's touching on the essential unspoken issue here. the SteamPad is a solution looking for a problem. This is more about Valve's business positioning than it is redefining gaming. Everyone's already pretty happy with their xbox 360 controllers, but Valve isn't happy that their platform isn't in your living room. Therefore, they want to bridge the gap so those titles that wouldn't translate well to the living room are more playable. Spelunky and SMB are amazing games, but very arcadey. They're test cases that can only show that this controller adequately compares to current controllers. A better test would be hearing how people do with titles you could less readily imagine playing on a ten foot display. I want to know, as a PC gamer and input control snob: 1) does this let me handle FPS games properly (ie twitch controls to compare to mouse level quality). 2) can I play RTS style games and do stuff like macroing and movement with the fluidity of kb/mouse. 3) what advantages do I get over an xbox 360 controller, which is decent enough in most cases. 4) does the loss of thumbsticks mean a loss of tactile response? I love the sensation of movement within Dark Souls as I tap on my thumbsticks. Nubbins would be helpful it's true, but it would be nice to have detachable sticks for those of us who want them. The valve patents from a few years ago showed something like that. Of course, adding thumbsticks then basically rolls back the design to being just another joypad. I'm skeptical, possibly because in a sense the SteamPad isn't doing anything new (while yeah the haptic is probably amazing compared to anything else current), it's just trying to translate our current experience of input from the quality we get on desktops, to the couch in our living rooms.

chc 13y ago
> the SteamPad is a solution looking for a problem. One paragraph later you articulate the very problem for which it is a solution: > they want to bridge the gap so those titles that wouldn't translate well to the living room are more playable
Bahamut 13y ago
> Everyone's already pretty happy with their xbox 360 controllers I don't know about pretty happy...I really wish the 360 controllers were more like Nintendo's traditional controllers (like the Wii Classic Controller or the Wii U Pro Controller)

deleted 13y ago

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