4 ms·

Taxation is not theft, it is lawful. The developed world is founded on taxes.

by pekk 13y ago

Frozenlock 13y ago
And war isn't murdering people? Just because something has the backing of a government doesn't change the definition of words. You can argue who is the owner of the money being taxed, but you can't say something is or isn't because it's lawful.
- wmt 13y ago
  My ISP insists that I must allow them to steal my money on monthly basis or they would cut my Internet! Taxes are not theft, but a membership fee. Its perks are roads, fire department, schools, laws and law enforcement, protection from foreign armies and basically keeping the society together.
  - Afforess 13y ago
    Except your argument makes no sense if you DONT LIVE IN AMERICA. If you pay US Taxes but live elsewhere, you are in fact getting robbed. Your local and government services are not provided by America, you get almost no representation from America, and yet you pay full taxes. Complete highway robbery.
  - nnnnnande 13y ago
    If you felt that your ISP didn't give you the proclaimed service, you could always cancel your subscription and sign with another ISP. I do agree that the idea of taxation is not theft, but at what point does it become so? If you look at all those aspects that you point out, would you say that the taxes are well spent? The other issue here is that the people in question don't even live in the US, and thus don't make use of those services (and probably don't want their money to be used on foreign wars, as well. Just an educated guess).
  - ahomescu1 13y ago
    If you don't like what the ISP charges you, you can cancel your Internet subscription. You're not allowed to say "well I don't drive, so I don't want to pay for roads". In addition, about 50% of the federal budget these days is Social Security+Medicare+Medicaid. Most of the things you listed are paid from local/state taxes, which are much smaller. Two thirds of the federal budget goes to pensions, welfare and military expenses. Roads, laws and law enforcement aren't where the bulk of taxes goes.
- cabalamat 13y ago
  > Just because something has the backing of a government doesn't change the definition of words. For some words, the government defines what they mean. This includes legal terms, such as murder or rape or theft -- all or which mean what the laws (written by the government) say what they mean.
paulhauggis 13y ago
How much is considered lawful? 30%? 50%? 90%? It would be lawful if I agreed to all of it. I do agree we need taxes, but in many cases, it's excessive and against my will (you can go to jail if you don't pay it). The other problem is that there is no accountability.
- seanmcdirmid 13y ago
  If you are living in the USA, you are probably paying far fewer taxes (income and consumption) than people living anywhere else in the developed world, as well as much of the developing world. I'm assuming you live in China though, since you said there is no accountability, and you can't vote out public officials whose tax policies you don't like.
  - Afforess 13y ago
    So because other countries take an arm and a leg in taxes, but the USA only takes an arm, we should shut up and be happy? /FlawedLogic.
    - seanmcdirmid 13y ago
      Give me a good example of a developed country with generally happy citizens who pay less taxes than we do, then we can use that country as an example of how a low tax society could work without failing spectacularly. Barring that, it might be possible that the libercrazian no/low-tax country might still work; we just have no evidence and/or experience that it does. Whenever I hear Americans complain about taxes, I play a sad song on a very tiny (invisible) violin in my hand.
      - slygent 13y ago
        Surely complexity of the tax code is important too? Anyway, Hong Kong is a very developed and modern place, and taxes are much lower here.

Taxation is not theft, it is lawful. The developed world is founded on taxes.

by pekk 13y ago

Taxation is not theft, it is lawful. The developed world is founded on taxes.

And war isn't murdering people? Just because something has the backing of a government doesn't change the definition of words. You can argue who is the owner of the money being taxed, but you can't say something is or isn't because it's lawful.

wmt 13y ago
My ISP insists that I must allow them to steal my money on monthly basis or they would cut my Internet! Taxes are not theft, but a membership fee. Its perks are roads, fire department, schools, laws and law enforcement, protection from foreign armies and basically keeping the society together.
- Afforess 13y ago
  Except your argument makes no sense if you DONT LIVE IN AMERICA. If you pay US Taxes but live elsewhere, you are in fact getting robbed. Your local and government services are not provided by America, you get almost no representation from America, and yet you pay full taxes. Complete highway robbery.
- nnnnnande 13y ago
  If you felt that your ISP didn't give you the proclaimed service, you could always cancel your subscription and sign with another ISP. I do agree that the idea of taxation is not theft, but at what point does it become so? If you look at all those aspects that you point out, would you say that the taxes are well spent? The other issue here is that the people in question don't even live in the US, and thus don't make use of those services (and probably don't want their money to be used on foreign wars, as well. Just an educated guess).
- ahomescu1 13y ago
  If you don't like what the ISP charges you, you can cancel your Internet subscription. You're not allowed to say "well I don't drive, so I don't want to pay for roads". In addition, about 50% of the federal budget these days is Social Security+Medicare+Medicaid. Most of the things you listed are paid from local/state taxes, which are much smaller. Two thirds of the federal budget goes to pensions, welfare and military expenses. Roads, laws and law enforcement aren't where the bulk of taxes goes.
cabalamat 13y ago
> Just because something has the backing of a government doesn't change the definition of words. For some words, the government defines what they mean. This includes legal terms, such as murder or rape or theft -- all or which mean what the laws (written by the government) say what they mean.

paulhauggis 13y ago

How much is considered lawful? 30%? 50%? 90%? It would be lawful if I agreed to all of it. I do agree we need taxes, but in many cases, it's excessive and against my will (you can go to jail if you don't pay it). The other problem is that there is no accountability.

seanmcdirmid 13y ago
If you are living in the USA, you are probably paying far fewer taxes (income and consumption) than people living anywhere else in the developed world, as well as much of the developing world. I'm assuming you live in China though, since you said there is no accountability, and you can't vote out public officials whose tax policies you don't like.
- Afforess 13y ago
  So because other countries take an arm and a leg in taxes, but the USA only takes an arm, we should shut up and be happy? /FlawedLogic.
  - seanmcdirmid 13y ago
    Give me a good example of a developed country with generally happy citizens who pay less taxes than we do, then we can use that country as an example of how a low tax society could work without failing spectacularly. Barring that, it might be possible that the libercrazian no/low-tax country might still work; we just have no evidence and/or experience that it does. Whenever I hear Americans complain about taxes, I play a sad song on a very tiny (invisible) violin in my hand.
    - slygent 13y ago
      Surely complexity of the tax code is important too? Anyway, Hong Kong is a very developed and modern place, and taxes are much lower here.