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> During this time Windows 8 came out and PC sales dropped 15% in the first full quarter after launch. I don't think it's all Windows 8's fault. The average de

> During this time Windows 8 came out and PC sales dropped 15% in the first full quarter after launch. I don't think it's all Windows 8's fault. The average desktop PC is just too powerful. I've been using Visual Studio 2010/2012/2013 with an i3 and an SSD for years now and I rarely run against any sort of performance bottleneck. To compare what sort of performance requirements I have: in the project that I work on I have a solution with 28 projects that takes about 50 seconds to build from a clean build. Visual Studio takes care of incrementally building the projects during normal development, so usually I'm looking at ~5 seconds to build then launch the debugger. I have absolutely no need to upgrade. No need = no sale. I'm using Windows 8 as my operating system. It takes one step forward and one step backwards. I'm looking forward to Windows 8.1 but there's nothing so seriously wrong with Windows 8 that I need 8.1. When I'm sitting in front of my PC and using Visual Studio, I'm not thinking "I wish this was actually a docked tablet". I have an iPad for mobility. PC sales are probably undergoing a bit of a course correction as people who are satisfied with tablets buy tablets instead of PCs. But I suspect PCs will be around for a long time to come and, until that day, there's nothing for them to "[come] back" from.

JoeAltmaier 13y ago
Same here. 4 years ago I bought 2 desktops, one for work and one for home. I quit contracting and got employed, so both sit in my office at home now. I still use them, develop on them, do everything else on them and they are fine. I wont' be buying a new desktop for at least another year if then. And I CERTAINLY won't be 'upgrading' to win8.
- jyrkesh 13y ago
  I would really reconsider your upgrading decision. It's easy to get past the start screen-ness or spend 5 minutes setting up a 3rd party taskbar and making sure opening files (e.g. jpg, pdf) default to the "non-Metro" applications. After that, you'll have an OS that is functionally identical to Windows 7 with better boot times (non-fresh upgrade install from 7 to 8 HALVED my boot time), an even more stable kernel (I've literally NEVER had a BSOD since upgrading from 7), and better performance. The FUD surrounding Win8 is kind of crazy. You want to know the easiest, fastest way to launch an application? Hit Windows key, type application name. Same on Win7, same on Win8...hell, it's the same on Ubuntu.
  - epochwolf 13y ago
    Same on a Mac. Command+Space to pop open spotlight. Applications are matched first. (Or use Alfred/Quicksilver)
    - MaysonL 13y ago
      Actually, slight correction: you can use spotlight preferences to set the order in which various matches are displayed. Every now and then this is useful.
    - JoeAltmaier 13y ago
      Spotlight et al have a problem - I build multiple branches of a project. The executables are all the same name, different paths. Mac doesn't distinguish them for me - I have to browse to the one I want every time. Which is a click-fest.
  - dragonwriter 13y ago
    > The FUD surrounding Win8 is kind of crazy. You want to know the easiest, fastest way to launch an application? Hit Windows key, type application name. Same on Win7, same on Win8...hell, it's the same on Ubuntu. Its actually, IME, noticeably slower than mousing in most cases on Windows 7.
  - julianz 13y ago
    OTOH, you want to know the easiest, fastest way to relaunch a recently used document? You can't, because they got rid of that.
    - ivoflipse 13y ago
      Through the jump list of the application you opened that document in recently? Obviously this requires you to know both what you opened it in and have it pinned to your taskbar, but I really like that feature for reopening files I recently closed on a per app basis.
      - 13y ago
- neltnerb 13y ago
  Yeah, I've been telling myself I'd get a new laptop when power consumption for modern chips reaches that of the ultra-low voltage pentium 4 in my current laptop (Asus UL30A with about 10 hours of actual battery life). But each time I look at the offerings, I conclude that my $700 PC from 2010 is perhaps not superior, but is certainly adequate enough that I'm not interested in forking out $1k+ to get something with a comparable battery lifetime. Instead I start to look at the Chromebook with Ubuntu on it as a much less expensive option with the primary thing I want (battery life) combined with an almost-real computer that does basically everything my older laptop can do. But even then, sunk cost and all. It's not enough to meet the performance of my three year old laptop, they have to exceed it. And it's amazingly still not there yet. I don't know what exactly Intel has been optimizing, but it sure isn't anything that matters to me.
  - epochwolf 13y ago
    Macbook Airs just reached 12 hours (so Apple claims) but I think that's about it.
    - neltnerb 13y ago
      ... for well over $1000, for a computer that questionably performs better.
rocky1138 13y ago
Same. My 2003 Athlon Barton XP with 1.5GB of RAM is rocking in my loft as a handy Mageia Linux Minecraft Server.
yuhong 13y ago
BTW, you do have to upgrade to 8.1 within two years to continue to receive support: http://support.microsoft.com/gp/lifecycle-Windows81-faq http://support.microsoft.com/gp/lifecycle-Windows81-faq What is fun is that I doubt this applies to Server 2012, even though it is based on the same codebase.

JoeAltmaier 13y ago

Same here. 4 years ago I bought 2 desktops, one for work and one for home. I quit contracting and got employed, so both sit in my office at home now. I still use them, develop on them, do everything else on them and they are fine. I wont' be buying a new desktop for at least another year if then. And I CERTAINLY won't be 'upgrading' to win8.

jyrkesh 13y ago
I would really reconsider your upgrading decision. It's easy to get past the start screen-ness or spend 5 minutes setting up a 3rd party taskbar and making sure opening files (e.g. jpg, pdf) default to the "non-Metro" applications. After that, you'll have an OS that is functionally identical to Windows 7 with better boot times (non-fresh upgrade install from 7 to 8 HALVED my boot time), an even more stable kernel (I've literally NEVER had a BSOD since upgrading from 7), and better performance. The FUD surrounding Win8 is kind of crazy. You want to know the easiest, fastest way to launch an application? Hit Windows key, type application name. Same on Win7, same on Win8...hell, it's the same on Ubuntu.
- epochwolf 13y ago
  Same on a Mac. Command+Space to pop open spotlight. Applications are matched first. (Or use Alfred/Quicksilver)
  - MaysonL 13y ago
    Actually, slight correction: you can use spotlight preferences to set the order in which various matches are displayed. Every now and then this is useful.
  - JoeAltmaier 13y ago
    Spotlight et al have a problem - I build multiple branches of a project. The executables are all the same name, different paths. Mac doesn't distinguish them for me - I have to browse to the one I want every time. Which is a click-fest.
- dragonwriter 13y ago
  > The FUD surrounding Win8 is kind of crazy. You want to know the easiest, fastest way to launch an application? Hit Windows key, type application name. Same on Win7, same on Win8...hell, it's the same on Ubuntu. Its actually, IME, noticeably slower than mousing in most cases on Windows 7.
- julianz 13y ago
  OTOH, you want to know the easiest, fastest way to relaunch a recently used document? You can't, because they got rid of that.
  - ivoflipse 13y ago
    Through the jump list of the application you opened that document in recently? Obviously this requires you to know both what you opened it in and have it pinned to your taskbar, but I really like that feature for reopening files I recently closed on a per app basis.
    - 13y ago
neltnerb 13y ago
Yeah, I've been telling myself I'd get a new laptop when power consumption for modern chips reaches that of the ultra-low voltage pentium 4 in my current laptop (Asus UL30A with about 10 hours of actual battery life). But each time I look at the offerings, I conclude that my $700 PC from 2010 is perhaps not superior, but is certainly adequate enough that I'm not interested in forking out $1k+ to get something with a comparable battery lifetime. Instead I start to look at the Chromebook with Ubuntu on it as a much less expensive option with the primary thing I want (battery life) combined with an almost-real computer that does basically everything my older laptop can do. But even then, sunk cost and all. It's not enough to meet the performance of my three year old laptop, they have to exceed it. And it's amazingly still not there yet. I don't know what exactly Intel has been optimizing, but it sure isn't anything that matters to me.
- epochwolf 13y ago
  Macbook Airs just reached 12 hours (so Apple claims) but I think that's about it.
  - neltnerb 13y ago
    ... for well over $1000, for a computer that questionably performs better.

rocky1138 13y ago

Same. My 2003 Athlon Barton XP with 1.5GB of RAM is rocking in my loft as a handy Mageia Linux Minecraft Server.

yuhong 13y ago

BTW, you do have to upgrade to 8.1 within two years to continue to receive support: http://support.microsoft.com/gp/lifecycle-Windows81-faq http://support.microsoft.com/gp/lifecycle-Windows81-faq What is fun is that I doubt this applies to Server 2012, even though it is based on the same codebase.