8 ms·

Linux is the best shot at a granny proof OS in 2013

35 points by Tsiolkovsky 13y ago

frank_boyd 13y ago
What's stopping Grannies from adopting Linux is the fact that legislators still seem to believe that it's not an abuse of monopolistic power by Microsoft to force laptop manufacturers into forcing the consumer to pay for an OS he doesn't need. The EU's commission whose job it is to ensure healthy competition has been sleeping on this since a few decades now. They should get some of that coffee. It's really beyond me how MS is still allowed to operate like this. Why have companies like Redhat, Canonical, etc. not filed a complaint with the EU yet?
- poolpool 13y ago
  "pay for an OS he doesn't need." Pay for an os HE? doesn't need. I know the hn community isn't exactly sensitive to gender and age issues but come on. Why is the consumer he? Especially when we are speaking about this mythical "granny."
  - josteink 13y ago
    It may just be me, but it hardly seems constructive to be nitpicking on a gender-specific article in a sentence which would become convoluted if rewritten to use a gender-neutral form.
  - theandrewbailey 13y ago
    This is one of the countless known bugs in the English language. You're welcome to try to fix it (the core developers died centuries ago), but the large userbase is unlikely to accept fixes.
- ryanackley 13y ago
  Maybe you're experiencing some residual anger from 10 years ago because Microsoft is nowhere near a monopoly anymore. You can buy a laptop loaded with Linux from Best Buy or Dell. Most creative professionals I know own Mac OS X laptops including myself. The Samsung Chromebook is the #1 sellng laptop on Amazon (or was a few months ago). Now if only IE would go in a corner and die...
- diaz 13y ago
  I agree on his one. For example in Portugal it's almost impossible to buy a computer with linux or no OS, you simply can't. Last time I asked about it and told them that if they sent the computer to the manufactor or if they contacted them they would sell it to me without OS, the seller simply told me that he can't sell the computer like that and that the pc + os are a package and there's no way to separate them. Recently I saw like 2 asus eeepc with ubuntu at shops, but that's it. Weak, small computers that almost nobody will buy and then they will tell the excuse "ohh, computers with linux don't sell". Simply stupid, I mean too damn smart for microsoft. Monopoly rules and still exists. Most people won't buy stuff from amazon or any other online shop, specially a computer that's something expensive and that if they have problems they can't simply go to the shop for maintenance. I think most people here live in a dream world when they say this kind of problem is solved. Please stop thinking only about how you see the world ( hackers that dominate technology and internet, living in 1st world countries ) and think how normal, granny type users live and experience the world. And I must laugh when people also say that ipad or mac computers are cheap enough for these users, seriously I don't know what to think... And sorry, I know I may be ranting a little but this must be said.
gamache 13y ago
ChromeOS is a better choice for today's grannies on today's hardware. Linux can be made that granny-proof. And that's what ChromeOS is. Hell, it's so granny-proof that it doesn't ship with gcc, or even header files!
- samspenc 13y ago
  Agreed. I think this is exactly the market Google is going after with ChromeOS. And not just grannies - its people who just want to use the Internet and not much else. Email? Use Gmail. Video chat? Google Hangouts. That's Google's answer.
- fauigerzigerk 13y ago
  Chromebooks don't support Skype.
  - gamache 13y ago
    Google Hangouts provides a lot of Skypeishness, for what that's worth.
mikeryan 13y ago
If by Granny proof OS you mean a kiosk with 3 apps.
- th0br0 13y ago
  But most people don't need anything else! I'd even go as far as saying that ChromeOS is a better "granny OS" than your stock Ubuntu...
  - tluyben2 13y ago
    Yeah for what I have seen with the users he describes, the $249 samsung chromebook is almost perfect. I would say it needs a touchscreen (I remember my grandfather trying to push on the screen 30 years ago when I showed him something with a button), but further it falls in the price range of almost everyone, it's always backed up, secure, simple. No worries about anything; just sending mails, browsing and writing the occasional text if needed. The problem of not having internet around is also no issue; these kind of users use their computers maybe a few times / week which at which point, at least here in the village, they go to the local bar and use their wifi.
  - mikeryan 13y ago
    Look I may have been snide but I totally reject the entire premise that a "Granny proof" OS is a terminal locked down to three main apps. Heck the whole article goes through pains to say "Granny isn't stupid" but they only need a browser. I mean at this point why give them skype and email when they can use webmail and Skype via a browser? (requires Outlook.com so your mail is there to) Granny proof to me is an OS where my granny can easily install their damn solitaire or scrabble games without too much hassle. They can get around to their downloaded images, create a gallery and maybe edit a Word Doc or excel spreadsheet. Its not some mythical strawman dummy user who really just needs an iPad. Right now an iPad is more powerful and usable device for a less tech savvy user then this stripped down - non-existant Linux distro.
  - betterunix 13y ago
    "most people don't need anything else" It may seem that way, but the average person is not so hopeless. Most people do not know what their computers can do for them other than a web browser. If, however, you take the time to show them, you might be surprised. My mother once thought that web browsing was computing. Then she got a digital camera and, out of necessity, learned how to scale down images (at that time, sending full-resolution images to people was infeasible). Eventually she learned that she could do more -- she could remove red-eye, switch people's heads, create various jokes that earned a lot of laughs on the job. Now she cannot imagine a computer that lacks photo editing software. One day recently she told me she wanted to get a TiVO and was asking for my advice. I said, "Why not just use the computer you have?" and I helped her set that up. MythTV was too complicated for her -- she is actually more comfortable using cron to schedule recordings. I wrote a small script for her to make recording a little easier, and occasionally have to help her with transcoding when she wants to watch a video on her Android tablet (but mostly she can do that herself). Already she has saved more money than the extra hardware cost, and while the process looks ugly and lacks a remote control, it works for her. Now, maybe my mother is exceptional, but I think you'll find that most people can do more with their computers than you expect if you bother to teach them or nudge them in the right direction. In the worst case, you might just have to write a few scripts and a simple UI if you are dealing with someone who is too intimated by a terminal. On the other hand, when you give someone the expedient solution that "just works" but that is based on the idea that they are too stupid to do anything, you trap them and prevent them from doing anything more.
Piskvorrr 13y ago
Yes. I have multiple "granny users" using Linux (Ubuntu+derivatives of classic Gnome), exactly the way author describes: Here's e-mail, here's web, here's (video)chat, that's it. No user-hostile distractions of the type "the computer has decided that it WILL reboot NOW", no useless "everything is all right, update has been installed" popups, no "oh look, a new flashdisk - guess what, the computer has decided that it needs yet another product reactivation," no "new printer? lol no, insert driver glork splurk mumbo jumbo" which I've come to know and loathe in Windows. Updates are completely under the hood, devices simply work when plugged in (which shocks me to no end, after previous experiences with Linux and W8 driver issues), no crapware, no spyware.
- pjmlp 13y ago
  Until you get that Ubuntu update that breaks the wireless driver. For example, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/995165 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+b...
  - Piskvorrr 13y ago
    I didn't quite say it was _perfect_, shit happens - and I've had my share of systems hosed by buggy updates everywhere: be it Windows, Linux, Mac or BSD. I still hold that in 2013, a modern Linux distro has _the fewest_ of such problems. Or, to put it differently, of my simplified boxes for basic users, Linux generates the fewest trouble tickets.
    - spongle 13y ago
      I disagree. Ubuntu hosed our central devops MySQL completely on a 10.04 LTS update... As with everything in IT, YMMV.
      - Piskvorrr 13y ago
        To reiterate: I'm not saying that Linux is the silver bullet, or problem-free; just that switching _a specific set of users_ to Linux has, so far, ensured the least problematic operation for them. How does your anecdote fit into that, apart from "it both says Linux, so a single user desktop and a MySQL server is totally the same situation"?
gum_ina_package 13y ago
Yes, yes, this is all fine and dandy until your linux distro updates and something causes the wifi drivers to crash or simply not work anymore. I think the OP wanted to have his granny just use an iPad or tablet of some kind where it's literally impossible to screw something up.
- betterunix 13y ago
  That sort of thing is the reason I switched from Fedora to ScientificLinux (i.e. RHEL). That switch happened years ago and I have yet to see anything critical break (in fact, I cannot think of anything beyond very obscure, configuration-specific breakage that is beyond what you would see for end user setups). Why give your grandparents a toy someone else owns and controls when you could give them the real thing?
- Tichy 13y ago
  Best to stay on Unbuntu's long term releases.
- w1ntermute 13y ago
  That's funny, because for the last several days I've been listening to people complain about various issues brought on by the iOS 7 update. One guy said his alarm clock app stopped working, causing him to miss an important meeting.
wzdd 13y ago
I realise what is meant, but not only is the term "granny" both sexist and ageist, it is also unnecessary. There is no useful distinction between a "granny" and a "user" in this person's hierarchy. MOST people view computers as tools to get things done and aren't interested in "exploring beyond that" -- or are we going to distinguish between "car drivers" and "granny car drivers" as well, when talking about simplifying the interface?
- didgeoridoo 13y ago
  Top Gear did exactly that (partially in jest): http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OmS-YTL02pY&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DOmS-YTL02pY http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OmS-YTL02pY&desktop_uri=%2Fwatc...
- jiggy2011 13y ago
  What is special about grannies is that they are almost certain to not have grown up with this type of technology.
- marrs 13y ago
  More likely than being sexist or ageist, the author probably had his granny in mind when he was trying to think of the label. I agree that it's not a very good one though; it's too specific. I don't really agree on your wider point, though. Car manufacturers do absolutely distinguish between "car drivers" and "granny car drivers", and also between "boy racers", "mums on the school run", and so on. If you're going to manufacture a new car, you need to know who you want to sell it to. The same should be true of computer platforms.
- vinceguidry 13y ago
  How is "granny" sexist or ageist? Is calling black people "black" racist? Is the NFL sexist because women can't be/aren't athletes?
jiggy2011 13y ago
The biggest problem isn't ease of use as such, it's consistency. If you set granny up with Windows and she has a problem, you know she can probably find another grandson or nephew who at least knows how to google for the solution, failing that it's probably easy to hire a cheap tech support person to go to her house and fix it for her. Once you set her up with a Linux distro , you're probably on the hook for that thing for it's entire lifetime. Granted it's probably easier to find Linux nerds now than it used to be but they're more likely to say "oh, this is Ubuntu.. I only use Arch".
- johnchristopher 13y ago
  That's not a problem because good boys and girls come visit their grandparents more often than their linux computer need fixing.
  - jiggy2011 13y ago
    I'd be worried about the co-occurrence of me arranging to go out and get drunk for the evening, granny wanting to watch an important episode of coronation street on BBC iplayer and adobe releasing another broken flash update. "It was very strange! They painted all the actors blue, I didn't like it!"
    - johnchristopher 13y ago
      You are in the IT/CS/computer field. Murphy's law is part of the deal :)
- Piskvorrr 13y ago
  Not really - none of that part of my family are Linux users, yet the grandsons and nephews have no issue googling for her issues - as the issues she had were with the apps: "how do I do this on the internet thing" is not very OS-specific, when you know that internet thing is Firefox ;)
indeyets 13y ago
OS X works perfectly for grannies of my kid :) the good thing is, that it is absolutely stable and requires close to zero support from me (I do updates 2 times a year)
- cygwin98 13y ago
  Don't know why you got downvoted. An old iMac has worked wonders for my parents.
- zeckalpha 13y ago
  iOS might be an even better alternative. I've met quite a few arthritics who have to use a touchscreen, plus the interface (until recently, though it will be again) was much more natural.
coldtea 13y ago
>Linux is the best shot at a granny proof OS in 2013 No, it's not. Been following the "dream" since 1998. Then it was "a matter of 1-2 years" to "be ready for the desktop", nay, to conquer it. Since then, the same three responses always come up: 1) "Well, I already use it for MY desktop, so there". Doesn't matter, you are an outlier. We're talking people at large here. 2) "Well, I installed it for my Dad and he goes along just fine". Sorry, a non-user with a friend to install Linux for him (and perhaps admin it) not representative of casual users. 3) Normal users are like "grannies" and "moms" (slightly sexist description which they use to mean: they do very little stuff with their PCs, like browse the web and check their email). Well, not really. Some users are like that -- mainly older people. But most users are not, and as they spend more time with their PCs they become even less so. They would at some point want to: edit video from their compact camera, play a (specific, popular) game, create a presentation and share it, etc etc. As soon as they try a lot of those things, they find out that Linux doesn't cut it 100%.
- snarfy 13y ago
  Step 2 definitely counts for something, because "grannies and moms" aren't exactly buying bare bones PCs and installing Windows on them from scratch either.
  - coldtea 13y ago
    Well, that's the old wives tale, but I've seen people like my dad (wholesale merchant, never used a computer or cared about them until 55+) that has, in the 3 years of buying one, reinstalled his Windows 2-3 times. It's not that difficult. Insert DVD, next-next, done. With a Mac, perhaps, it's even easier.
    - tluyben2 13y ago
      But did he install it on a barebone pc? Getting all the missing drivers etc? This sounds like this was a factory installed PC with all drivers on the DVD ready to go. That's not barebone exactly. Also the question is why he was doing that; I haven't reinstalled anything (not Linux, not Mac) for many years and I actually like screwing around with hardware and drivers?
tux1968 13y ago
We're not too far from a time when every Granny grew up in a highly technical age where basic digital competency is as assured as knowing how to tie shoelaces. Hopefully then we can stop the over emphasis on providing systems for the least technically capable.
- ht_th 13y ago
  I'm not so sure about that. Compare with literacy. Not only is there a largish part of the population that hasn't enough reading proficiency'to be called literate, but even a large part of the literate do have trouble reading and comprehending texts, forms, and what not that are written by higher educated people. This is a big problem with governmental forms and the like. For the people for which these forms are often the most important have the most trouble reading and comprehending these forms.
- ledge 13y ago
  Systems can be intuitive and novice-friendly without limiting the capabilities of technical users. Also don't count on basic digital competency anytime soon worldwide. Where I live, young and old alike stare blankly into computer screens with no clue what's happening. Two days ago I unsuccessfully tried to explain to a 25 year old woman what a website is. There are so many emerging markets for computers that intuitive UIs will be crucial for a long time to come. I'm glad for that, since the ease of opening my web browser or music player has never once prevented me from using command line tools, editing system/configuration files, etc.
eliben 13y ago
No. I don't think Linux (Ubuntu et al) is or will become so in the next 5 years (FWIW I use Linux both at home and at work). But a Chromebook is - and I'm speaking with years of experience observing my grandfather's use of a computer. Chromebooks are hard to screw up. You kill one? Replace it and get all the settings back. No viruses. No antiviruses (worse than viruses, usually). It just works. And the price is very low too.
Schiphol 13y ago
I've seen the kind of user ranking proposed in this article many times (from clueless users on to power users on to developers and elite hackers). The assumption being that those up the ranking have an all-around better command of computers than those down. But it seems to me that a developer need not be a power user. It doesn't seem far fetched that one might be competent in (say) python while ignoring most of the innards of a unix-like system (modulo the part that she actually uses in her programming). Being able to code doesn't automagically turn you into an expert in, say, systemd service files.
- hobs 13y ago
  In my experience some devs are power users, but many business devs are writers of code, they don't know dick about anything outside of their purview, and frankly, they don't care.
bpatrianakos 13y ago
This makes sense if you look at it through your own tech-centric lenses. It seems plausible that Linux is good for a normal user when you try to put yourself in their shoes but the problem is that you can't really do that without bringing along your own knowledge and experience without realizing it. Linux is not okay for the basic user described in this post but it can be great for a lot of non techies. "Grannies" don't like to deviate from the norm. The library has windows, friends have windows, by this point in time a person has come into contact with computers outside the home lots and they're almost always windows with an occasional Mac. You put Ubuntu on Granny's machine and she'll be asking why this doesn't look like what she saw elsewhere. Even if the function and UI are eerily similar there's this weird mental block that stops people from seeing the similarities and focus only on the differences. The distribution described in this post is basically a Chromebook. Honestly, if your "Granny" needs email, skype, and the web then get an iPad + keyboard or a Chromebook. Not a full Linux install that you rip stuff out of. In fact, people with these granny use cases are already flocking to tablets over desktops in droves. A copy of Ubuntu "Gutsy Granny" as described here is bending a desktop to work not like a desktop save for the mouse. I'm annoyed with the 2 mainstream OSes like anyone else and I especially hate having to troubleshoot problems that shouldn't come up for these Grannies but as annoying as it is I think switching these people to Linux is partly us trying to enlighten others (which comes off really condescendingly) and partly trying to make our lives easier rather than the user's by putting the user in the equivalent of a bubble where they can't break anything and if they do it's very convenient for us to fix.
bunderbunder 13y ago
No, the best [insert unfavorable stereotype here]-proof OS in 2013 is iOS. Compared to iOS, Linux compares unfavorably on almost every factor: - For truly casual, non-savvy users the iPad is the ideal hardware platform. It's small, it's unintimidating, it's inexpensive. - Touchscreens are great. They're the natural interface for a casual user. I have a grandmother who became somewhat notorious for breaking LCDs in my family. This was back in the early 2000s before touchscreens were remotely common, but that interface mode still managed to stick in her head so firmly that she never did develop an instinct for using the mouse. - For users this casual, a Linux setup depends critically on having a friend or family member who's able and willing to set up and administer their computer for them. Very few people have that. - By contrast, the biggest problem I've had to support with non-nerdy friends/family and their iPads is, "I can't get this Send to Evernote bookmarklet working in Safari." That's obviously coming from one of the less intimidated ones. - The onscreen keyboard is generally fine because people this uncomfortable with computers generally don't touch-type anyway. For those who do, a case with a built-in keyboard is an easy solution. Now I'll grant there are some political objections to iOS out there, and for people to whom those political objections are important, Linux is less problematic. To them I say, get over yourself. This isn't a computer for you. This is a computer for people who neither know nor give a damn about the GNU Manifesto. Or if you think they really do want something that folds, a Chromebook probably works too. Haven't had a chance to try one of those, honestly.
- betterunix 13y ago
  "This isn't a computer for you. This is a computer for people who neither know nor give a damn about the GNU Manifesto." The point of the GNU manifesto is that nobody, not even people who are hopelessly unable to manage their own computer, should be forced to give up control of their computers. It is one thing to lack a working knowledge of computers, but quite another to receive a computer that deliberately traps you. Beyond that, the GNU manifesto is about not dividing people into special social classes like "programmers" and "end users;" everyone should have the same rights over their computers, regardless of their ability to exercise those rights on their own. Some of us are not going to recommend computers that are designed to be controlled by their manufacturers. I would rather deal with a million annoying demands for computer help from my family members than to see their technical ignorance taken advantage of by Apple or by anyone else. Consider what you are saying in the context of free speech (not such a stretch, considering the censorship of political apps in the Apple app store). Would you say that free speech only matters for philosophers and political commentators? Would you say that it is OK to curtail certain speech for everyone else, because most people never say those things anyway? That is what you are saying about computers: that the freedom to hack belongs only to people who have the technical knowledge needed to do so.

35 points by Tsiolkovsky 13y ago

What's stopping Grannies from adopting Linux is the fact that legislators still seem to believe that it's not an abuse of monopolistic power by Microsoft to force laptop manufacturers into forcing the consumer to pay for an OS he doesn't need. The EU's commission whose job it is to ensure healthy competition has been sleeping on this since a few decades now. They should get some of that coffee. It's really beyond me how MS is still allowed to operate like this. Why have companies like Redhat, Canonical, etc. not filed a complaint with the EU yet?

poolpool 13y ago
"pay for an OS he doesn't need." Pay for an os HE? doesn't need. I know the hn community isn't exactly sensitive to gender and age issues but come on. Why is the consumer he? Especially when we are speaking about this mythical "granny."
- josteink 13y ago
  It may just be me, but it hardly seems constructive to be nitpicking on a gender-specific article in a sentence which would become convoluted if rewritten to use a gender-neutral form.
- theandrewbailey 13y ago
  This is one of the countless known bugs in the English language. You're welcome to try to fix it (the core developers died centuries ago), but the large userbase is unlikely to accept fixes.
ryanackley 13y ago
Maybe you're experiencing some residual anger from 10 years ago because Microsoft is nowhere near a monopoly anymore. You can buy a laptop loaded with Linux from Best Buy or Dell. Most creative professionals I know own Mac OS X laptops including myself. The Samsung Chromebook is the #1 sellng laptop on Amazon (or was a few months ago). Now if only IE would go in a corner and die...
diaz 13y ago
I agree on his one. For example in Portugal it's almost impossible to buy a computer with linux or no OS, you simply can't. Last time I asked about it and told them that if they sent the computer to the manufactor or if they contacted them they would sell it to me without OS, the seller simply told me that he can't sell the computer like that and that the pc + os are a package and there's no way to separate them. Recently I saw like 2 asus eeepc with ubuntu at shops, but that's it. Weak, small computers that almost nobody will buy and then they will tell the excuse "ohh, computers with linux don't sell". Simply stupid, I mean too damn smart for microsoft. Monopoly rules and still exists. Most people won't buy stuff from amazon or any other online shop, specially a computer that's something expensive and that if they have problems they can't simply go to the shop for maintenance. I think most people here live in a dream world when they say this kind of problem is solved. Please stop thinking only about how you see the world ( hackers that dominate technology and internet, living in 1st world countries ) and think how normal, granny type users live and experience the world. And I must laugh when people also say that ipad or mac computers are cheap enough for these users, seriously I don't know what to think... And sorry, I know I may be ranting a little but this must be said.

gamache 13y ago

ChromeOS is a better choice for today's grannies on today's hardware. Linux can be made that granny-proof. And that's what ChromeOS is. Hell, it's so granny-proof that it doesn't ship with gcc, or even header files!

samspenc 13y ago
Agreed. I think this is exactly the market Google is going after with ChromeOS. And not just grannies - its people who just want to use the Internet and not much else. Email? Use Gmail. Video chat? Google Hangouts. That's Google's answer.
fauigerzigerk 13y ago
Chromebooks don't support Skype.
- gamache 13y ago
  Google Hangouts provides a lot of Skypeishness, for what that's worth.

mikeryan 13y ago

If by Granny proof OS you mean a kiosk with 3 apps.

th0br0 13y ago
But most people don't need anything else! I'd even go as far as saying that ChromeOS is a better "granny OS" than your stock Ubuntu...
- tluyben2 13y ago
  Yeah for what I have seen with the users he describes, the $249 samsung chromebook is almost perfect. I would say it needs a touchscreen (I remember my grandfather trying to push on the screen 30 years ago when I showed him something with a button), but further it falls in the price range of almost everyone, it's always backed up, secure, simple. No worries about anything; just sending mails, browsing and writing the occasional text if needed. The problem of not having internet around is also no issue; these kind of users use their computers maybe a few times / week which at which point, at least here in the village, they go to the local bar and use their wifi.
- mikeryan 13y ago
  Look I may have been snide but I totally reject the entire premise that a "Granny proof" OS is a terminal locked down to three main apps. Heck the whole article goes through pains to say "Granny isn't stupid" but they only need a browser. I mean at this point why give them skype and email when they can use webmail and Skype via a browser? (requires Outlook.com so your mail is there to) Granny proof to me is an OS where my granny can easily install their damn solitaire or scrabble games without too much hassle. They can get around to their downloaded images, create a gallery and maybe edit a Word Doc or excel spreadsheet. Its not some mythical strawman dummy user who really just needs an iPad. Right now an iPad is more powerful and usable device for a less tech savvy user then this stripped down - non-existant Linux distro.
- betterunix 13y ago
  "most people don't need anything else" It may seem that way, but the average person is not so hopeless. Most people do not know what their computers can do for them other than a web browser. If, however, you take the time to show them, you might be surprised. My mother once thought that web browsing was computing. Then she got a digital camera and, out of necessity, learned how to scale down images (at that time, sending full-resolution images to people was infeasible). Eventually she learned that she could do more -- she could remove red-eye, switch people's heads, create various jokes that earned a lot of laughs on the job. Now she cannot imagine a computer that lacks photo editing software. One day recently she told me she wanted to get a TiVO and was asking for my advice. I said, "Why not just use the computer you have?" and I helped her set that up. MythTV was too complicated for her -- she is actually more comfortable using cron to schedule recordings. I wrote a small script for her to make recording a little easier, and occasionally have to help her with transcoding when she wants to watch a video on her Android tablet (but mostly she can do that herself). Already she has saved more money than the extra hardware cost, and while the process looks ugly and lacks a remote control, it works for her. Now, maybe my mother is exceptional, but I think you'll find that most people can do more with their computers than you expect if you bother to teach them or nudge them in the right direction. In the worst case, you might just have to write a few scripts and a simple UI if you are dealing with someone who is too intimated by a terminal. On the other hand, when you give someone the expedient solution that "just works" but that is based on the idea that they are too stupid to do anything, you trap them and prevent them from doing anything more.

Piskvorrr 13y ago

Yes. I have multiple "granny users" using Linux (Ubuntu+derivatives of classic Gnome), exactly the way author describes: Here's e-mail, here's web, here's (video)chat, that's it. No user-hostile distractions of the type "the computer has decided that it WILL reboot NOW", no useless "everything is all right, update has been installed" popups, no "oh look, a new flashdisk - guess what, the computer has decided that it needs yet another product reactivation," no "new printer? lol no, insert driver glork splurk mumbo jumbo" which I've come to know and loathe in Windows. Updates are completely under the hood, devices simply work when plugged in (which shocks me to no end, after previous experiences with Linux and W8 driver issues), no crapware, no spyware.

pjmlp 13y ago
Until you get that Ubuntu update that breaks the wireless driver. For example, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/995165 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+b...
- Piskvorrr 13y ago
  I didn't quite say it was _perfect_, shit happens - and I've had my share of systems hosed by buggy updates everywhere: be it Windows, Linux, Mac or BSD. I still hold that in 2013, a modern Linux distro has _the fewest_ of such problems. Or, to put it differently, of my simplified boxes for basic users, Linux generates the fewest trouble tickets.
  - spongle 13y ago
    I disagree. Ubuntu hosed our central devops MySQL completely on a 10.04 LTS update... As with everything in IT, YMMV.
    - Piskvorrr 13y ago
      To reiterate: I'm not saying that Linux is the silver bullet, or problem-free; just that switching _a specific set of users_ to Linux has, so far, ensured the least problematic operation for them. How does your anecdote fit into that, apart from "it both says Linux, so a single user desktop and a MySQL server is totally the same situation"?

gum_ina_package 13y ago

Yes, yes, this is all fine and dandy until your linux distro updates and something causes the wifi drivers to crash or simply not work anymore. I think the OP wanted to have his granny just use an iPad or tablet of some kind where it's literally impossible to screw something up.

betterunix 13y ago
That sort of thing is the reason I switched from Fedora to ScientificLinux (i.e. RHEL). That switch happened years ago and I have yet to see anything critical break (in fact, I cannot think of anything beyond very obscure, configuration-specific breakage that is beyond what you would see for end user setups). Why give your grandparents a toy someone else owns and controls when you could give them the real thing?
Tichy 13y ago
Best to stay on Unbuntu's long term releases.
w1ntermute 13y ago
That's funny, because for the last several days I've been listening to people complain about various issues brought on by the iOS 7 update. One guy said his alarm clock app stopped working, causing him to miss an important meeting.

wzdd 13y ago

I realise what is meant, but not only is the term "granny" both sexist and ageist, it is also unnecessary. There is no useful distinction between a "granny" and a "user" in this person's hierarchy. MOST people view computers as tools to get things done and aren't interested in "exploring beyond that" -- or are we going to distinguish between "car drivers" and "granny car drivers" as well, when talking about simplifying the interface?

didgeoridoo 13y ago
Top Gear did exactly that (partially in jest): http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OmS-YTL02pY&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DOmS-YTL02pY http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OmS-YTL02pY&desktop_uri=%2Fwatc...
jiggy2011 13y ago
What is special about grannies is that they are almost certain to not have grown up with this type of technology.
marrs 13y ago
More likely than being sexist or ageist, the author probably had his granny in mind when he was trying to think of the label. I agree that it's not a very good one though; it's too specific. I don't really agree on your wider point, though. Car manufacturers do absolutely distinguish between "car drivers" and "granny car drivers", and also between "boy racers", "mums on the school run", and so on. If you're going to manufacture a new car, you need to know who you want to sell it to. The same should be true of computer platforms.
vinceguidry 13y ago
How is "granny" sexist or ageist? Is calling black people "black" racist? Is the NFL sexist because women can't be/aren't athletes?

jiggy2011 13y ago

The biggest problem isn't ease of use as such, it's consistency. If you set granny up with Windows and she has a problem, you know she can probably find another grandson or nephew who at least knows how to google for the solution, failing that it's probably easy to hire a cheap tech support person to go to her house and fix it for her. Once you set her up with a Linux distro , you're probably on the hook for that thing for it's entire lifetime. Granted it's probably easier to find Linux nerds now than it used to be but they're more likely to say "oh, this is Ubuntu.. I only use Arch".

johnchristopher 13y ago
That's not a problem because good boys and girls come visit their grandparents more often than their linux computer need fixing.
- jiggy2011 13y ago
  I'd be worried about the co-occurrence of me arranging to go out and get drunk for the evening, granny wanting to watch an important episode of coronation street on BBC iplayer and adobe releasing another broken flash update. "It was very strange! They painted all the actors blue, I didn't like it!"
  - johnchristopher 13y ago
    You are in the IT/CS/computer field. Murphy's law is part of the deal :)
Piskvorrr 13y ago
Not really - none of that part of my family are Linux users, yet the grandsons and nephews have no issue googling for her issues - as the issues she had were with the apps: "how do I do this on the internet thing" is not very OS-specific, when you know that internet thing is Firefox ;)

indeyets 13y ago

OS X works perfectly for grannies of my kid :) the good thing is, that it is absolutely stable and requires close to zero support from me (I do updates 2 times a year)

cygwin98 13y ago
Don't know why you got downvoted. An old iMac has worked wonders for my parents.
zeckalpha 13y ago
iOS might be an even better alternative. I've met quite a few arthritics who have to use a touchscreen, plus the interface (until recently, though it will be again) was much more natural.

coldtea 13y ago

>Linux is the best shot at a granny proof OS in 2013 No, it's not. Been following the "dream" since 1998. Then it was "a matter of 1-2 years" to "be ready for the desktop", nay, to conquer it. Since then, the same three responses always come up: 1) "Well, I already use it for MY desktop, so there". Doesn't matter, you are an outlier. We're talking people at large here. 2) "Well, I installed it for my Dad and he goes along just fine". Sorry, a non-user with a friend to install Linux for him (and perhaps admin it) not representative of casual users. 3) Normal users are like "grannies" and "moms" (slightly sexist description which they use to mean: they do very little stuff with their PCs, like browse the web and check their email). Well, not really. Some users are like that -- mainly older people. But most users are not, and as they spend more time with their PCs they become even less so. They would at some point want to: edit video from their compact camera, play a (specific, popular) game, create a presentation and share it, etc etc. As soon as they try a lot of those things, they find out that Linux doesn't cut it 100%.

snarfy 13y ago
Step 2 definitely counts for something, because "grannies and moms" aren't exactly buying bare bones PCs and installing Windows on them from scratch either.
- coldtea 13y ago
  Well, that's the old wives tale, but I've seen people like my dad (wholesale merchant, never used a computer or cared about them until 55+) that has, in the 3 years of buying one, reinstalled his Windows 2-3 times. It's not that difficult. Insert DVD, next-next, done. With a Mac, perhaps, it's even easier.
  - tluyben2 13y ago
    But did he install it on a barebone pc? Getting all the missing drivers etc? This sounds like this was a factory installed PC with all drivers on the DVD ready to go. That's not barebone exactly. Also the question is why he was doing that; I haven't reinstalled anything (not Linux, not Mac) for many years and I actually like screwing around with hardware and drivers?

tux1968 13y ago

We're not too far from a time when every Granny grew up in a highly technical age where basic digital competency is as assured as knowing how to tie shoelaces. Hopefully then we can stop the over emphasis on providing systems for the least technically capable.

ht_th 13y ago
I'm not so sure about that. Compare with literacy. Not only is there a largish part of the population that hasn't enough reading proficiency'to be called literate, but even a large part of the literate do have trouble reading and comprehending texts, forms, and what not that are written by higher educated people. This is a big problem with governmental forms and the like. For the people for which these forms are often the most important have the most trouble reading and comprehending these forms.
ledge 13y ago
Systems can be intuitive and novice-friendly without limiting the capabilities of technical users. Also don't count on basic digital competency anytime soon worldwide. Where I live, young and old alike stare blankly into computer screens with no clue what's happening. Two days ago I unsuccessfully tried to explain to a 25 year old woman what a website is. There are so many emerging markets for computers that intuitive UIs will be crucial for a long time to come. I'm glad for that, since the ease of opening my web browser or music player has never once prevented me from using command line tools, editing system/configuration files, etc.

eliben 13y ago

No. I don't think Linux (Ubuntu et al) is or will become so in the next 5 years (FWIW I use Linux both at home and at work). But a Chromebook is - and I'm speaking with years of experience observing my grandfather's use of a computer. Chromebooks are hard to screw up. You kill one? Replace it and get all the settings back. No viruses. No antiviruses (worse than viruses, usually). It just works. And the price is very low too.

Schiphol 13y ago

I've seen the kind of user ranking proposed in this article many times (from clueless users on to power users on to developers and elite hackers). The assumption being that those up the ranking have an all-around better command of computers than those down. But it seems to me that a developer need not be a power user. It doesn't seem far fetched that one might be competent in (say) python while ignoring most of the innards of a unix-like system (modulo the part that she actually uses in her programming). Being able to code doesn't automagically turn you into an expert in, say, systemd service files.

hobs 13y ago
In my experience some devs are power users, but many business devs are writers of code, they don't know dick about anything outside of their purview, and frankly, they don't care.

bpatrianakos 13y ago

This makes sense if you look at it through your own tech-centric lenses. It seems plausible that Linux is good for a normal user when you try to put yourself in their shoes but the problem is that you can't really do that without bringing along your own knowledge and experience without realizing it. Linux is not okay for the basic user described in this post but it can be great for a lot of non techies. "Grannies" don't like to deviate from the norm. The library has windows, friends have windows, by this point in time a person has come into contact with computers outside the home lots and they're almost always windows with an occasional Mac. You put Ubuntu on Granny's machine and she'll be asking why this doesn't look like what she saw elsewhere. Even if the function and UI are eerily similar there's this weird mental block that stops people from seeing the similarities and focus only on the differences. The distribution described in this post is basically a Chromebook. Honestly, if your "Granny" needs email, skype, and the web then get an iPad + keyboard or a Chromebook. Not a full Linux install that you rip stuff out of. In fact, people with these granny use cases are already flocking to tablets over desktops in droves. A copy of Ubuntu "Gutsy Granny" as described here is bending a desktop to work not like a desktop save for the mouse. I'm annoyed with the 2 mainstream OSes like anyone else and I especially hate having to troubleshoot problems that shouldn't come up for these Grannies but as annoying as it is I think switching these people to Linux is partly us trying to enlighten others (which comes off really condescendingly) and partly trying to make our lives easier rather than the user's by putting the user in the equivalent of a bubble where they can't break anything and if they do it's very convenient for us to fix.

bunderbunder 13y ago

No, the best [insert unfavorable stereotype here]-proof OS in 2013 is iOS. Compared to iOS, Linux compares unfavorably on almost every factor: - For truly casual, non-savvy users the iPad is the ideal hardware platform. It's small, it's unintimidating, it's inexpensive. - Touchscreens are great. They're the natural interface for a casual user. I have a grandmother who became somewhat notorious for breaking LCDs in my family. This was back in the early 2000s before touchscreens were remotely common, but that interface mode still managed to stick in her head so firmly that she never did develop an instinct for using the mouse. - For users this casual, a Linux setup depends critically on having a friend or family member who's able and willing to set up and administer their computer for them. Very few people have that. - By contrast, the biggest problem I've had to support with non-nerdy friends/family and their iPads is, "I can't get this Send to Evernote bookmarklet working in Safari." That's obviously coming from one of the less intimidated ones. - The onscreen keyboard is generally fine because people this uncomfortable with computers generally don't touch-type anyway. For those who do, a case with a built-in keyboard is an easy solution. Now I'll grant there are some political objections to iOS out there, and for people to whom those political objections are important, Linux is less problematic. To them I say, get over yourself. This isn't a computer for you. This is a computer for people who neither know nor give a damn about the GNU Manifesto. Or if you think they really do want something that folds, a Chromebook probably works too. Haven't had a chance to try one of those, honestly.

betterunix 13y ago
"This isn't a computer for you. This is a computer for people who neither know nor give a damn about the GNU Manifesto." The point of the GNU manifesto is that nobody, not even people who are hopelessly unable to manage their own computer, should be forced to give up control of their computers. It is one thing to lack a working knowledge of computers, but quite another to receive a computer that deliberately traps you. Beyond that, the GNU manifesto is about not dividing people into special social classes like "programmers" and "end users;" everyone should have the same rights over their computers, regardless of their ability to exercise those rights on their own. Some of us are not going to recommend computers that are designed to be controlled by their manufacturers. I would rather deal with a million annoying demands for computer help from my family members than to see their technical ignorance taken advantage of by Apple or by anyone else. Consider what you are saying in the context of free speech (not such a stretch, considering the censorship of political apps in the Apple app store). Would you say that free speech only matters for philosophers and political commentators? Would you say that it is OK to curtail certain speech for everyone else, because most people never say those things anyway? That is what you are saying about computers: that the freedom to hack belongs only to people who have the technical knowledge needed to do so.