5 ms·

Shoeshine man catches a break - and some cash

65 points by kqr2 17y ago

kqr2 17y ago
Followup to: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=642677 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=642677
jrockway 17y ago
The most irritating part about all this is that you need an ID card to give the government money. (I found it very difficult to pay my state taxes in Illinois until I got an ID card. It should be easier to give people money which you are legally obligated to give them.)
- cubicle67 17y ago
  I spent some time working in the UK. At that time it was illegal for a company to employ you unless you have a National Insurance Number, but one of the requirements to getting one of these numbers was having an employer. About the only to get one was to find an employer who was willing to let you work without a number on the understanding that you would then get one pretty quick (which of course then requires taking a full day off work, or two in my case) Note: This was my experience in the late 90's. May be different now.
- siong1987 17y ago
  It is especially hard for International students.
mikeryan 17y ago
It's funny to see this here, just last evening as I picked up my wife, she told me this story as we drove by him.
- jzachary 17y ago
  Did you stop to get your shoes shined?
jasonlbaptiste 17y ago
This is a great story. Even though SF screwed up in the beginning, I'm glad they handled it well. We do need more citizens like this. Times get tough, and for some a hell of a lot tougher. The thing is, he had the resolve to get off the booze and try to make something happen. Not trying to sound all sappy, but this should be a motivating story for a lot of homeless people.
- chris11 17y ago
  I do agree that this is a great story, but I think the homeless could be helped out a lot more. Around 40 to 50 percent have a serious mental illness. And many are not being treated. Also some of the mentally ill have anosognosia, and so don't even realize that they have a problem. So sure, it would be nice if a lot more people had the resolve to get off alcohol and work, but it is a lot tougher for some to do this.
  - whacked_new 17y ago
    This is an interesting issue -- what incentive is there to help the mentally-disabled homeless from an economic perspective? After a minute of thought I cannot come up with one. It could be a psychological effect akin to the social safety net, which indirectly increases morale and loyalty, and then, indirectly, boosts the economy, but it is still a stretch. Therefore, treating them looks to me as a wholly unfavorable proposition and the current non-arrangement would be the more-or-less optimized case. How am I wrong?
    - kqr2 17y ago
      The main reason for helping is human compassion, however, you could also argue that helping the homeless will also increase the property value in the surrounding area and possibly lead to more economic activity such as shopping.
      - whacked_new 17y ago
        So this makes sense, which, lumped together with the other 2 responses, is a general living quality issue. But, does it really work out that way? That is: cost of providing housing and essential care to homeless + cost of treating any of those with mental disabilities < economic benefit from increasing general quality of environment. Sure housing prices would rise, but the left side of the inequality is direct tax payer money. The right side comes indirectly from sales, public facilities, and property. Knowing that prisoners are locked away in interest of lowering crime rate, at a $20K+/year/prisoner [1], that seems, on a hunch, difficult. It looks quite intricate. And, knowing that modern corporations will have no business in doing this, it is a public service; some people might not be interested in paying this tax. Hence, doing nothing seems to not be very far from optimal, as it looks. Or, is that inequality correct, and RHS - LHS gives a good number? [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisons_in_the_United_States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisons_in_the_United_States
joel_feather 17y ago
This is the shoeshiner version of getting an iPhone App Store Rejection letter.
- gcheong 17y ago
  Not quite, because at least the city official told the guy what he needed in order to sell his services.
wallflower 17y ago
I believe there is a lot of startup lessons here. Larry started up from very little (bootstrap), built a devoted customer base who want him to succeed. And, it really seems to make a difference that he dresses up in a shirt and tie.

65 points by kqr2 17y ago

kqr2 17y ago

Followup to: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=642677 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=642677

The most irritating part about all this is that you need an ID card to give the government money. (I found it very difficult to pay my state taxes in Illinois until I got an ID card. It should be easier to give people money which you are legally obligated to give them.)

cubicle67 17y ago
I spent some time working in the UK. At that time it was illegal for a company to employ you unless you have a National Insurance Number, but one of the requirements to getting one of these numbers was having an employer. About the only to get one was to find an employer who was willing to let you work without a number on the understanding that you would then get one pretty quick (which of course then requires taking a full day off work, or two in my case) Note: This was my experience in the late 90's. May be different now.
siong1987 17y ago
It is especially hard for International students.

mikeryan 17y ago

It's funny to see this here, just last evening as I picked up my wife, she told me this story as we drove by him.

jzachary 17y ago
Did you stop to get your shoes shined?

jasonlbaptiste 17y ago

This is a great story. Even though SF screwed up in the beginning, I'm glad they handled it well. We do need more citizens like this. Times get tough, and for some a hell of a lot tougher. The thing is, he had the resolve to get off the booze and try to make something happen. Not trying to sound all sappy, but this should be a motivating story for a lot of homeless people.

chris11 17y ago
I do agree that this is a great story, but I think the homeless could be helped out a lot more. Around 40 to 50 percent have a serious mental illness. And many are not being treated. Also some of the mentally ill have anosognosia, and so don't even realize that they have a problem. So sure, it would be nice if a lot more people had the resolve to get off alcohol and work, but it is a lot tougher for some to do this.
- whacked_new 17y ago
  This is an interesting issue -- what incentive is there to help the mentally-disabled homeless from an economic perspective? After a minute of thought I cannot come up with one. It could be a psychological effect akin to the social safety net, which indirectly increases morale and loyalty, and then, indirectly, boosts the economy, but it is still a stretch. Therefore, treating them looks to me as a wholly unfavorable proposition and the current non-arrangement would be the more-or-less optimized case. How am I wrong?
  - kqr2 17y ago
    The main reason for helping is human compassion, however, you could also argue that helping the homeless will also increase the property value in the surrounding area and possibly lead to more economic activity such as shopping.
    - whacked_new 17y ago
      So this makes sense, which, lumped together with the other 2 responses, is a general living quality issue. But, does it really work out that way? That is: cost of providing housing and essential care to homeless + cost of treating any of those with mental disabilities < economic benefit from increasing general quality of environment. Sure housing prices would rise, but the left side of the inequality is direct tax payer money. The right side comes indirectly from sales, public facilities, and property. Knowing that prisoners are locked away in interest of lowering crime rate, at a $20K+/year/prisoner [1], that seems, on a hunch, difficult. It looks quite intricate. And, knowing that modern corporations will have no business in doing this, it is a public service; some people might not be interested in paying this tax. Hence, doing nothing seems to not be very far from optimal, as it looks. Or, is that inequality correct, and RHS - LHS gives a good number? [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisons_in_the_United_States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisons_in_the_United_States

joel_feather 17y ago

This is the shoeshiner version of getting an iPhone App Store Rejection letter.

gcheong 17y ago
Not quite, because at least the city official told the guy what he needed in order to sell his services.

wallflower 17y ago

I believe there is a lot of startup lessons here. Larry started up from very little (bootstrap), built a devoted customer base who want him to succeed. And, it really seems to make a difference that he dresses up in a shirt and tie.