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At 77 He Prepares Burgers, Earning in a Week His Former Hourly Wage

90 points by weston 13y ago

lifeformed 13y ago
So hard to parse this headline...
- VLM 13y ago
  The article wasn't much clearer. Is the theme that old people without chronic illnesses tend to be more active? Or a money manager thinks people should give him more money to manage? Or if old people give money to money managers they should expect to lose 40% of it as per the star of the article? Maybe the theme is people who have extreme ups and downs in their lives should plan during the ups for the downs? There was some discussion about the star of the article being very unusual because he has assets and most old people don't. My experience with ancestors is they have assets until they become sick, then they lose all their assets that can be stripped from them until they qualify for free medical. Then they live on free medical and SS until the end. So I'm not surprised that old people tend not to have assets, thats kind of the point of a for-profit medical industrial complex.
twiceaday 13y ago
Title would be significantly clearer if it was "... in a Week ..."
ChrisBland 13y ago
So someone who didn't save enough for retirement works two jobs to earn extra income? This really isn't news.
- uptown 13y ago
  It's one example of a person affected by a variety of truly challenging events. The financial crisis which affected retirement savings. The housing crisis which affected what was typically people's largest asset. Rising health-care costs. Baby-boomers entering retirement and the impact that'll have on Social Security. Lack of pensions, and dependence on 401k's. The jobless recovery. It's easy to blame an individual for not having planned for the predicament he finds himself in, but it's also possible to see what he's going through as a sampling of unexpected or uncontrollable macro-economic factors, weighing on a much-larger sector of the population than just this one man, in a way that will ultimately have an effect on society as a whole.
- 30thElement 13y ago
  The kicker is located in the middle, > The median 401(k) balance for households headed by people aged 55 to 64 who had retirement accounts at work was $120,000 in 2011 The 77 year old highlighted is just an easy way to personalize the larger statistics.
  - alexeisadeski3 13y ago
    The 401k needn't constitute their entire savings.
- nilkn 13y ago
  It may not be news, but it's a nice reminder of how much the purchasing power of the middle class has fallen. He was unable to both support his own retirement and support his children (i.e., pay for their college, help with initial house downpayments, etc.). Granted, times are a lot tougher for him since his wife died, but that really only strengthens the point: the middle class is becoming more and more reliant on dual incomes. That is a terrible eventuality, as it makes divorce or separation even more devastating to families and their children. I suspect many posters are thinking, "well, he shouldn't have tried to help his kids so much." And that is also exactly part of the point: he shouldn't have to choose between his own retirement and his kids.
rwmj 13y ago
He had a "low 6 figure" salary, ie. >= $100,000 per year, and over all that time he managed to save $90,000. So let's say he worked for 25 years and had no interest at all from his pension, that means he saved about $300 per month. Which (considering he was paying off his mortgage and putting his kids through college) is I guess a pretty respectable amount to save.
- nilkn 13y ago
  The six figure salary is also what he was making only at the peak of his career, so it's possible (probable) that for the majority of that 25+ year career he wasn't making as much. Edit: Actually it seems I'm not really correct. The article clarifies this: > His big break came in 1975 when he was recruited to The Cooper Cos. as vice president of marketing for the Oral-B dental-care business. > The job gave him a high five-figure income and an executive’s life at age 39. He flew first class to Cooper offices in the U.S. and in England, Sweden and Germany. He helped win an endorsement for the Oral-B toothbrush from the U.S. Olympic Committee. He had a closet filled with business suits, and on weekends he played golf with other executives. > So in 1980, when he was 44, he started a consulting company, with Cooper as his main client. He also did consulting for Sandoz Pharmaceuticals, Johnson & Johnson and others. > In flush years, Palome had several clients and earned about $120,000. Though he saved for his kids’ college and helped his elderly parents, retirement wasn’t on his radar. > “I never thought I’d live this long,” he said. His wife also died in 1983 so he had to bear the full cost of raising his children. It seems that he chose to provide a good life for his kids over his own retirement, as far as I can tell. I know a lot of parents who made or are making the same selfless choice. This is a slightly different topic, but it's really unfortunate that for most middle class families having multiple kids is effectively deciding not to retire comfortably.
- rb2k_ 13y ago
  At 300$ a month for 25 years and a return of 4% (conservative for the stock market), he would have ended up with 156k$ thanks to compound interest. Also: who works for only 25 years? You'd have to graduate (very late) with 30 and retire (very early) with 55?
LandoCalrissian 13y ago
It's strange to me that he can't find any other work as a consultant or something related to his former field.
- rquantz 13y ago
  Maybe, at 77, he doesn't want the pressure.
- VLM 13y ago
  Ageism? He's a marketing guy, but on HN, 35 is already considered functionally obsolete. At over twice that age I think you guys as a group would LOL. Couple that with having been out of the field for many years...
VLM 13y ago
One interesting comedy about retirement planning is a professional retirement money manager quoted in the article suggests saving 20 times your annual income before retiring. If you're poor, you're not going to have the spare money to save. If you're rich, the IRA contribution limits begin to hit. Hmm lets say 75K/yr * 20 years / $5K per year contribution limit that'll take 300 years to save the 20 years worth. If you're in a career that's short term, its going to be difficult to save 20 years of annual income if no one over the age of 35 is hired into that kind of work or the average worker burns out in less than 10 years. And the only purpose of the whole racket is so the medical industrial complex can simply confiscate it all anyway before you get to enjoy it. Finally the article implies the guy likes going to work and only does it for extra beer money. And whats wrong with that, other than people who actually need the job to live can't get his?
- tzs 13y ago
  > If you're rich, the IRA contribution limits begin to hit. Hmm lets say 75K/yr * 20 years / $5K per year contribution limit that'll take 300 years to save the 20 years worth. The IRA limits only apply to money you save in an IRA. There is no requirement that your retirement savings be entirely in an IRA.
  - plorkyeran 13y ago
    And if your IRA is a meaningful portion of your retirement savings, you aren't going to be able to retire. Unfortunately, a lot of people that I've talked to who could quite easily save a lot more have been under the impression that maxing out their IRA contribution each year means that they're in good shape.
  - VLM 13y ago
    True, but its fun to watch the memes fight it out: 1) You need an IRA to retire. 2) You need 20 years income in the bank to retire. Its fun to watch those two memes fight.
    - mason55 13y ago
sharkweek 13y ago
As a late 20something -- it's hard to predict the future; but truly, I could imagine my wife and I expatriating when we retire to somewhere where it's just cheaper to live. I've been very fortunate to have spent more than my fair share of time traveling out of the US and there are so many amazing low key places with decent access to necessities. I really have started seeing this as a viable option down the road. I keep reading about Uruguay, and how it's quickly becoming a target destination for a lot of retirees, assuming I were to be of retirement age today, I'm having trouble thinking of a reason NOT to do this.
- maratd 13y ago
  > I were to be of retirement age today, I'm having trouble thinking of a reason NOT to do this. Family? Helping your children with their kids instead of selfishly running away to some tropical destination? After you get past a certain age, you may also want some help for yourself from your children.
  - sharkweek 13y ago
    That's making a lot of assumptions about future lifestyle choices -- But point taken, I do suppose if my wife and I had kids now, that quickly changes the overall mindset of retirement. Still though, I hardly consider it a selfish choice -- shit, I would have loved to have gone and visited the grandparents in some tropical destination as opposed to northern Idaho.
  - sliverstorm 13y ago
    Oh, it depends a lot on your family. For example, what if you had kids at twenty, and your kids had kids at twenty? By the time you retire, your grandchildren are in college. Maybe not a bad time to run off for a ten year Hawaiian vacation. The connection between parent and mature children also varies a lot from family to family.
  - malandrew 13y ago
    After you get past a certain age, you may also want some help for yourself from your children. The cost of a maid or other household help in many developing countries is low enough that you can get much much much better help there than you could possibly get from your adult kids with their own lives in the US. A really good live-in maid will run you $500 a month (a great salary for many people). They will cook all your meals three times a day, keep the house spotless, do all your laundry, run errands like buying groceries, etc. You can't find service like you can in Brazil without paying a pretty penny. The average cost of a retirement community in the US is $2750 a month, many times more expensive for probably far worse service, with one employee shared among many retired individuals.
dreadsword 13y ago
As far as I can tell, this dude made some choices, and is happily dealing with the consequences. He chose a consultancy over a pension, and has chose to give to his children over keeping for himself. And, (a) he notes that he doesn't have to work but choose to, and (b) any of his kids would be happy to support him. From what I can tell, this is a media outlet looking for a juicy story about seniors festering in poverty where such a story doesn't really exist.
- alexeisadeski3 13y ago
  Also... Who only saves $90k for retirement? You're supposed to have 10x your income, not .9x.
  - VLM 13y ago
    One entertaining part about retirement discussions is apparently young people think all old people are executives. Wikipedia "median household income" article claims $29056 for the USA in 2010 for "annual median equivalised disposable household income per adult".
    - thedufer 13y ago
      The article says that he made $100k, and it sounds like he continued to live like he was after the money stopped. If he was living like someone who made $30k, the money would go farther.
    - alexeisadeski3 13y ago
      If only I were young! 10x income is a sliding scale - anyone can and should do that.
      - jborica 13y ago
        Any middle/upper-middle class, healthy American-born person with a caring family, access to good education resources, opportunities to stay employed throughout their life, and a drive to work for the market can and should do that if they live in an area with a demand for new jobs and are lucky enough to stay away from any serious accidents, diseases, and pregnancies. As someone who immigrated here as a refugee without a dollar to my name and a family to feed, I realize how much of a role pure chance and luck play in my successes thus far despite the obstacles.
cperciva 13y ago
He receives $1,200 from Social Security and a $600 a month pension from his last corporate job. When the 2008 financial crisis hit, what little Palome had saved -- $90,000 -- took a beating He then sold his New Jersey home for $180,000, kept what he needed to quickly pay off his credit card debt and divided the rest among his children so they’d have down payments for their own homes. Ok, so he retired with $270,000 of assets plus $1,800 per month from private and public pensions. Buy a life annuity (as a 65 year old male) with the $270,000 and you're getting around $1,600 per month. That yields a total income of $3,400 a month or $40,800 a year, which is considerably above the national median income (around $28,000/year according to wikipedia). As I see it, the problems here are entirely of his own making: 1. He gave away 2/3 of the wealth he should have been relying on during his retirement, 2. He gambled his remaining assets in the stock market rather than making investments suitable for his demographic (mostly bonds) or buying an annuity, and 3. He picked up expensive habits when he was younger -- he takes regular flights to visit relatives and occasional vacations. (And I suppose I could add 4. He should have saved far more money before retiring -- but my point is that even at the point he retired he was in decent financial shape.)
- kevingadd 13y ago
  Are you saying he shouldn't have supported his children, and that he shouldn't go see his relatives? That's fucked up.
  - freiervogel 13y ago
    Are you saying it's wise or smart to cripple your ability to retire by lavishing your children with your life's savings? That's what this guy seems to have done. And now his situation is a bit f'd up.
  - Tyrannosaurs 13y ago
    I may be wrong but I'm guessing he's not a parent. For most parents a choice between yourself and your children is no choice. He's accepted a level of financial hardship to be, or at least feel like, a good parent. I see no issue with that.
api 13y ago
I don't expect to ever be able to retire unless I get truly wealthy. This is a fairly ugly thing. I'm not sure what I would do if I lost my health or my skills fell too far out of date for me to catch up. And I'm one of the lucky ones. I have actual earning power. Most of my cohorts do not. I can't imagine this ending well.
- rodedwards 13y ago
  "I don't expect to ever be able to retire unless I get truly wealthy." Why not?
  - jrockway 13y ago
    I guess he's saying he won't save money until he has an excess, as though anyone ever has an excess of money. ("But I need my own 767!")
- contingencies 13y ago
  Expectations can be managed. My strategy is flee to the developing world and learn some languages, make some friends, get used to being out of my own culture and familiar with other ways of living. I could beat myself up about office hours and mortgages back home to collect the dream, but it's just not worth it. You only live once.
Zimahl 13y ago
At 64, when an 800 square foot manufactured home he’d seen in Plant City, a Tampa suburb, became available for $21,500, he purchased it with a credit card to amass frequent flier miles. He then sold his New Jersey home for $180,000, kept what he needed to quickly pay off his credit card debt and divided the rest among his children so they’d have down payments for their own homes. Selling the house was smart, but dividing the rest and giving it to his children was a terrible move. Homes in the US are used a proxy savings accounts - sold at retirement or later to gain retirement funds, or used as a (hopefully) no-rent living space.
- VLM 13y ago
  There are very few no rent homes. My rent has been about $325/month to the city in prop taxes for the last decade or so. They have held it constant by increasing all fees in an extortionate manner.
riggins 13y ago
I gotta say I respect this guy a lot. For a lot of people their ego wouldn't be able to handle the step down in status. This guy took care of his family and now he's taking care of himself.
- snowwrestler 13y ago
  That's what I took away as well. I know it's hard to believe when we're young and on top of the world, but the vast majority of us will make some mistakes and will face hardship and loss. I really hope I am able to maintain the positive, constructive attitude that this guy has.
- adam 13y ago
  Thank you for saying this. Some in this thread are being critical of the mistakes he made in planning his retirement. That may be, but he's owning it and working his tail off to continue to do what is important to him, namely see his children and remain independent. Much respect.
  - riggins 13y ago
    Ya I don't understand some of the comments in this thread. I didn't read this as a guy that was blindsided. I think there's some conscious choice at work here. He could see what his finances were going to be if gave his savings to his kids for down-payments and he chose to do it.
rokhayakebe 13y ago
I am from Africa. My mom gets a pension for $30/month for the few years my father worked for the government before passing away. With $30 she can go buy one bag of rice, and maybe enough sugar for one month. MAYBE. But no one cares. In Africa the retirement is your kids. You take care of your kids, and when they grow up, they take care of you. While this system is sure to keep many under poverty, I prefer it to one where someone who is 77 has to get to work just to ensure he can have the basics. I respect the way elders think in America. That is they are independent, they help the youngsters as much as they can, and they are just significantly more active than older people where I am from. However I do think it is right for them to have to work past a certain age, especially when they have well-able relatives.
- jacalata 13y ago
  So what does your mother do when you get hit by a truck? What does an old person who doesn't have kids do?
  - rokhayakebe 13y ago
    I have other brothers, sister. If we all get hit by the same truck, there is extended family such as her sisters and brothers. It's social security. I take care of my own, and I am not around, my extended family should, if not, my neighbors should, so on and so forth. All I am saying people should take care of their parents if they are old and cannot afford the basics.
  - jborica 13y ago
    I'm sure the obscene medical bills would eventually be passed onto her if it were the US, so I don't see the point of the question.
    - nknighthb 13y ago
      You're "sure" of something that's utterly false? Relatives are not responsible for the debts of a deceased person in the US.
  - 13y ago
Mikeb85 13y ago
Investments != savings... No one should have any money in stocks if they're within 10-20 years of retirement, and aren't investment professionals themselves. The fact is, people (investors and those who sell investment 'products') got too used to successive bull markets, and took on too much risk. When the smart people sold, the dumb people (or those who have too much faith in their dumb brokers) lost big. Take on risk when you're young, so if your position takes a hit, you have enough time to ride it out. When you've got a good amount, switch into low-risk investments, and when you're within a decade of retirement, put everything you're counting on into a bank account or GIC. Only play with what you're willing to lose...
caligo 13y ago
For what is worth I have observed this phenomenon first hand. I am a college student and I work part time as a sales clerk at a store. I would say at least 20% of the staff consists of retirees. They are usually professionals who either worked for the government or a larger corporation. Everyone who I've gotten to know has some savings and doesn't strictly need to work, but doesn't have enough savings to live comfortably. What is more interesting is that another 15% to 20% of my colleagues at this store are in their late forties to mid fifties. For various reasons they each decided to abandon their careers (found out they didn't believe in what they were doing, or decided to take time off to look after their kids and could never get back into the industry, etc...) It is a bit of a specialized store so I am sure it is not the same distribution as in a Target or a Walmart. However it is also worth mentioning that aside from one or two people (who I am not sure about), everyone else has at least a bachelors degree or is in the process of getting one. There are maybe 15 college students out of a staff of about 60.
jpeg_hero 13y ago
this is why i advise young american's to start developing ties and knowledge of developing economies. make your money in the US. Retire to Bangladesh/Philippines.
NonEUCitizen 13y ago
His math is wrong, and the journalist just put it in the title without doing any simple arithmetic. He makes about $80 a day now, which is $400/week. In flush years, he used to make about $120K. At approximately 2000 work hours per year (in USA), that works out to about $60/hour. So he makes in a week slightly less than his former daily wage. [updated this -- it said more previously. I can't do math either!] It's amazing that even a financial publication like Bloomberg has innumerate journalists.
rsheridan6 13y ago
This guy seems remarkably youthful for 77. A lot of people his age wouldn't be able to handle his jobs, or would not be able to convince an employer to give them a chance. Even a burger flipper has to be able to stand for hours at a time and have a decent short term memory.
malandrew 13y ago
I'm actually shocked that he can't earn better as an educator of some sort. Seems like a great way to spend your like is 1/3 of it learning, 1/3 of it applying what you've learned and learning more from experience and 1/3 of your life sharing what you've learned with those living the first 2/3's of their lives. If you were successful during the first 2/3's of your live, then teaching or sharing your success with others should be possible. That's the route that my dad took, but it wasn't planned and he wasn't even aware to seek it out. He was a two-time CEO, and one of the companies he founded and took it to a moderate exit. However after he left the last company, he moved back home to Brazil, where he encountered ageism over and over again. Companies and recruiters basically told him "Look, you're the perfect candidate. Every company looking to compete internationally would love to have someone like you. However they want someone who has your experience but is 40 to at most 50 years old. My dad is 66. After struggling for a while and burning through a lot of his savings being told no over and over again because of his age, a friend of his put him in touch with Instituto Dom Cabral, probably Brazil's best business school, where he easily got a job as a professor doing managerial consulting advice to companies that pay for access to its professors.

90 points by weston 13y ago

lifeformed 13y ago

So hard to parse this headline...

VLM 13y ago
The article wasn't much clearer. Is the theme that old people without chronic illnesses tend to be more active? Or a money manager thinks people should give him more money to manage? Or if old people give money to money managers they should expect to lose 40% of it as per the star of the article? Maybe the theme is people who have extreme ups and downs in their lives should plan during the ups for the downs? There was some discussion about the star of the article being very unusual because he has assets and most old people don't. My experience with ancestors is they have assets until they become sick, then they lose all their assets that can be stripped from them until they qualify for free medical. Then they live on free medical and SS until the end. So I'm not surprised that old people tend not to have assets, thats kind of the point of a for-profit medical industrial complex.

twiceaday 13y ago

Title would be significantly clearer if it was "... in a Week ..."

ChrisBland 13y ago

So someone who didn't save enough for retirement works two jobs to earn extra income? This really isn't news.

uptown 13y ago
It's one example of a person affected by a variety of truly challenging events. The financial crisis which affected retirement savings. The housing crisis which affected what was typically people's largest asset. Rising health-care costs. Baby-boomers entering retirement and the impact that'll have on Social Security. Lack of pensions, and dependence on 401k's. The jobless recovery. It's easy to blame an individual for not having planned for the predicament he finds himself in, but it's also possible to see what he's going through as a sampling of unexpected or uncontrollable macro-economic factors, weighing on a much-larger sector of the population than just this one man, in a way that will ultimately have an effect on society as a whole.
30thElement 13y ago
The kicker is located in the middle, > The median 401(k) balance for households headed by people aged 55 to 64 who had retirement accounts at work was $120,000 in 2011 The 77 year old highlighted is just an easy way to personalize the larger statistics.
- alexeisadeski3 13y ago
  The 401k needn't constitute their entire savings.
nilkn 13y ago
It may not be news, but it's a nice reminder of how much the purchasing power of the middle class has fallen. He was unable to both support his own retirement and support his children (i.e., pay for their college, help with initial house downpayments, etc.). Granted, times are a lot tougher for him since his wife died, but that really only strengthens the point: the middle class is becoming more and more reliant on dual incomes. That is a terrible eventuality, as it makes divorce or separation even more devastating to families and their children. I suspect many posters are thinking, "well, he shouldn't have tried to help his kids so much." And that is also exactly part of the point: he shouldn't have to choose between his own retirement and his kids.

rwmj 13y ago

He had a "low 6 figure" salary, ie. >= $100,000 per year, and over all that time he managed to save $90,000. So let's say he worked for 25 years and had no interest at all from his pension, that means he saved about $300 per month. Which (considering he was paying off his mortgage and putting his kids through college) is I guess a pretty respectable amount to save.

nilkn 13y ago
The six figure salary is also what he was making only at the peak of his career, so it's possible (probable) that for the majority of that 25+ year career he wasn't making as much. Edit: Actually it seems I'm not really correct. The article clarifies this: > His big break came in 1975 when he was recruited to The Cooper Cos. as vice president of marketing for the Oral-B dental-care business. > The job gave him a high five-figure income and an executive’s life at age 39. He flew first class to Cooper offices in the U.S. and in England, Sweden and Germany. He helped win an endorsement for the Oral-B toothbrush from the U.S. Olympic Committee. He had a closet filled with business suits, and on weekends he played golf with other executives. > So in 1980, when he was 44, he started a consulting company, with Cooper as his main client. He also did consulting for Sandoz Pharmaceuticals, Johnson & Johnson and others. > In flush years, Palome had several clients and earned about $120,000. Though he saved for his kids’ college and helped his elderly parents, retirement wasn’t on his radar. > “I never thought I’d live this long,” he said. His wife also died in 1983 so he had to bear the full cost of raising his children. It seems that he chose to provide a good life for his kids over his own retirement, as far as I can tell. I know a lot of parents who made or are making the same selfless choice. This is a slightly different topic, but it's really unfortunate that for most middle class families having multiple kids is effectively deciding not to retire comfortably.
rb2k_ 13y ago
At 300$ a month for 25 years and a return of 4% (conservative for the stock market), he would have ended up with 156k$ thanks to compound interest. Also: who works for only 25 years? You'd have to graduate (very late) with 30 and retire (very early) with 55?

LandoCalrissian 13y ago

It's strange to me that he can't find any other work as a consultant or something related to his former field.

rquantz 13y ago
Maybe, at 77, he doesn't want the pressure.
VLM 13y ago
Ageism? He's a marketing guy, but on HN, 35 is already considered functionally obsolete. At over twice that age I think you guys as a group would LOL. Couple that with having been out of the field for many years...

VLM 13y ago

One interesting comedy about retirement planning is a professional retirement money manager quoted in the article suggests saving 20 times your annual income before retiring. If you're poor, you're not going to have the spare money to save. If you're rich, the IRA contribution limits begin to hit. Hmm lets say 75K/yr * 20 years / $5K per year contribution limit that'll take 300 years to save the 20 years worth. If you're in a career that's short term, its going to be difficult to save 20 years of annual income if no one over the age of 35 is hired into that kind of work or the average worker burns out in less than 10 years. And the only purpose of the whole racket is so the medical industrial complex can simply confiscate it all anyway before you get to enjoy it. Finally the article implies the guy likes going to work and only does it for extra beer money. And whats wrong with that, other than people who actually need the job to live can't get his?

tzs 13y ago
> If you're rich, the IRA contribution limits begin to hit. Hmm lets say 75K/yr * 20 years / $5K per year contribution limit that'll take 300 years to save the 20 years worth. The IRA limits only apply to money you save in an IRA. There is no requirement that your retirement savings be entirely in an IRA.
- plorkyeran 13y ago
  And if your IRA is a meaningful portion of your retirement savings, you aren't going to be able to retire. Unfortunately, a lot of people that I've talked to who could quite easily save a lot more have been under the impression that maxing out their IRA contribution each year means that they're in good shape.
- VLM 13y ago
  True, but its fun to watch the memes fight it out: 1) You need an IRA to retire. 2) You need 20 years income in the bank to retire. Its fun to watch those two memes fight.
  - mason55 13y ago

sharkweek 13y ago

As a late 20something -- it's hard to predict the future; but truly, I could imagine my wife and I expatriating when we retire to somewhere where it's just cheaper to live. I've been very fortunate to have spent more than my fair share of time traveling out of the US and there are so many amazing low key places with decent access to necessities. I really have started seeing this as a viable option down the road. I keep reading about Uruguay, and how it's quickly becoming a target destination for a lot of retirees, assuming I were to be of retirement age today, I'm having trouble thinking of a reason NOT to do this.

maratd 13y ago
> I were to be of retirement age today, I'm having trouble thinking of a reason NOT to do this. Family? Helping your children with their kids instead of selfishly running away to some tropical destination? After you get past a certain age, you may also want some help for yourself from your children.
- sharkweek 13y ago
  That's making a lot of assumptions about future lifestyle choices -- But point taken, I do suppose if my wife and I had kids now, that quickly changes the overall mindset of retirement. Still though, I hardly consider it a selfish choice -- shit, I would have loved to have gone and visited the grandparents in some tropical destination as opposed to northern Idaho.
- sliverstorm 13y ago
  Oh, it depends a lot on your family. For example, what if you had kids at twenty, and your kids had kids at twenty? By the time you retire, your grandchildren are in college. Maybe not a bad time to run off for a ten year Hawaiian vacation. The connection between parent and mature children also varies a lot from family to family.
- malandrew 13y ago
  After you get past a certain age, you may also want some help for yourself from your children. The cost of a maid or other household help in many developing countries is low enough that you can get much much much better help there than you could possibly get from your adult kids with their own lives in the US. A really good live-in maid will run you $500 a month (a great salary for many people). They will cook all your meals three times a day, keep the house spotless, do all your laundry, run errands like buying groceries, etc. You can't find service like you can in Brazil without paying a pretty penny. The average cost of a retirement community in the US is $2750 a month, many times more expensive for probably far worse service, with one employee shared among many retired individuals.

dreadsword 13y ago

As far as I can tell, this dude made some choices, and is happily dealing with the consequences. He chose a consultancy over a pension, and has chose to give to his children over keeping for himself. And, (a) he notes that he doesn't have to work but choose to, and (b) any of his kids would be happy to support him. From what I can tell, this is a media outlet looking for a juicy story about seniors festering in poverty where such a story doesn't really exist.

alexeisadeski3 13y ago
Also... Who only saves $90k for retirement? You're supposed to have 10x your income, not .9x.
- VLM 13y ago
  One entertaining part about retirement discussions is apparently young people think all old people are executives. Wikipedia "median household income" article claims $29056 for the USA in 2010 for "annual median equivalised disposable household income per adult".
  - thedufer 13y ago
    The article says that he made $100k, and it sounds like he continued to live like he was after the money stopped. If he was living like someone who made $30k, the money would go farther.
  - alexeisadeski3 13y ago
    If only I were young! 10x income is a sliding scale - anyone can and should do that.
    - jborica 13y ago
      Any middle/upper-middle class, healthy American-born person with a caring family, access to good education resources, opportunities to stay employed throughout their life, and a drive to work for the market can and should do that if they live in an area with a demand for new jobs and are lucky enough to stay away from any serious accidents, diseases, and pregnancies. As someone who immigrated here as a refugee without a dollar to my name and a family to feed, I realize how much of a role pure chance and luck play in my successes thus far despite the obstacles.

cperciva 13y ago

He receives $1,200 from Social Security and a $600 a month pension from his last corporate job. When the 2008 financial crisis hit, what little Palome had saved -- $90,000 -- took a beating He then sold his New Jersey home for $180,000, kept what he needed to quickly pay off his credit card debt and divided the rest among his children so they’d have down payments for their own homes. Ok, so he retired with $270,000 of assets plus $1,800 per month from private and public pensions. Buy a life annuity (as a 65 year old male) with the $270,000 and you're getting around $1,600 per month. That yields a total income of $3,400 a month or $40,800 a year, which is considerably above the national median income (around $28,000/year according to wikipedia). As I see it, the problems here are entirely of his own making: 1. He gave away 2/3 of the wealth he should have been relying on during his retirement, 2. He gambled his remaining assets in the stock market rather than making investments suitable for his demographic (mostly bonds) or buying an annuity, and 3. He picked up expensive habits when he was younger -- he takes regular flights to visit relatives and occasional vacations. (And I suppose I could add 4. He should have saved far more money before retiring -- but my point is that even at the point he retired he was in decent financial shape.)

kevingadd 13y ago
Are you saying he shouldn't have supported his children, and that he shouldn't go see his relatives? That's fucked up.
- freiervogel 13y ago
  Are you saying it's wise or smart to cripple your ability to retire by lavishing your children with your life's savings? That's what this guy seems to have done. And now his situation is a bit f'd up.
- Tyrannosaurs 13y ago
  I may be wrong but I'm guessing he's not a parent. For most parents a choice between yourself and your children is no choice. He's accepted a level of financial hardship to be, or at least feel like, a good parent. I see no issue with that.

api 13y ago

I don't expect to ever be able to retire unless I get truly wealthy. This is a fairly ugly thing. I'm not sure what I would do if I lost my health or my skills fell too far out of date for me to catch up. And I'm one of the lucky ones. I have actual earning power. Most of my cohorts do not. I can't imagine this ending well.

rodedwards 13y ago
"I don't expect to ever be able to retire unless I get truly wealthy." Why not?
- jrockway 13y ago
  I guess he's saying he won't save money until he has an excess, as though anyone ever has an excess of money. ("But I need my own 767!")
contingencies 13y ago
Expectations can be managed. My strategy is flee to the developing world and learn some languages, make some friends, get used to being out of my own culture and familiar with other ways of living. I could beat myself up about office hours and mortgages back home to collect the dream, but it's just not worth it. You only live once.

Zimahl 13y ago

At 64, when an 800 square foot manufactured home he’d seen in Plant City, a Tampa suburb, became available for $21,500, he purchased it with a credit card to amass frequent flier miles. He then sold his New Jersey home for $180,000, kept what he needed to quickly pay off his credit card debt and divided the rest among his children so they’d have down payments for their own homes. Selling the house was smart, but dividing the rest and giving it to his children was a terrible move. Homes in the US are used a proxy savings accounts - sold at retirement or later to gain retirement funds, or used as a (hopefully) no-rent living space.

VLM 13y ago
There are very few no rent homes. My rent has been about $325/month to the city in prop taxes for the last decade or so. They have held it constant by increasing all fees in an extortionate manner.

riggins 13y ago

I gotta say I respect this guy a lot. For a lot of people their ego wouldn't be able to handle the step down in status. This guy took care of his family and now he's taking care of himself.

snowwrestler 13y ago
That's what I took away as well. I know it's hard to believe when we're young and on top of the world, but the vast majority of us will make some mistakes and will face hardship and loss. I really hope I am able to maintain the positive, constructive attitude that this guy has.
adam 13y ago
Thank you for saying this. Some in this thread are being critical of the mistakes he made in planning his retirement. That may be, but he's owning it and working his tail off to continue to do what is important to him, namely see his children and remain independent. Much respect.
- riggins 13y ago
  Ya I don't understand some of the comments in this thread. I didn't read this as a guy that was blindsided. I think there's some conscious choice at work here. He could see what his finances were going to be if gave his savings to his kids for down-payments and he chose to do it.

rokhayakebe 13y ago

I am from Africa. My mom gets a pension for $30/month for the few years my father worked for the government before passing away. With $30 she can go buy one bag of rice, and maybe enough sugar for one month. MAYBE. But no one cares. In Africa the retirement is your kids. You take care of your kids, and when they grow up, they take care of you. While this system is sure to keep many under poverty, I prefer it to one where someone who is 77 has to get to work just to ensure he can have the basics. I respect the way elders think in America. That is they are independent, they help the youngsters as much as they can, and they are just significantly more active than older people where I am from. However I do think it is right for them to have to work past a certain age, especially when they have well-able relatives.

jacalata 13y ago
So what does your mother do when you get hit by a truck? What does an old person who doesn't have kids do?
- rokhayakebe 13y ago
  I have other brothers, sister. If we all get hit by the same truck, there is extended family such as her sisters and brothers. It's social security. I take care of my own, and I am not around, my extended family should, if not, my neighbors should, so on and so forth. All I am saying people should take care of their parents if they are old and cannot afford the basics.
- jborica 13y ago
  I'm sure the obscene medical bills would eventually be passed onto her if it were the US, so I don't see the point of the question.
  - nknighthb 13y ago
    You're "sure" of something that's utterly false? Relatives are not responsible for the debts of a deceased person in the US.
- 13y ago

Mikeb85 13y ago

Investments != savings... No one should have any money in stocks if they're within 10-20 years of retirement, and aren't investment professionals themselves. The fact is, people (investors and those who sell investment 'products') got too used to successive bull markets, and took on too much risk. When the smart people sold, the dumb people (or those who have too much faith in their dumb brokers) lost big. Take on risk when you're young, so if your position takes a hit, you have enough time to ride it out. When you've got a good amount, switch into low-risk investments, and when you're within a decade of retirement, put everything you're counting on into a bank account or GIC. Only play with what you're willing to lose...

caligo 13y ago

For what is worth I have observed this phenomenon first hand. I am a college student and I work part time as a sales clerk at a store. I would say at least 20% of the staff consists of retirees. They are usually professionals who either worked for the government or a larger corporation. Everyone who I've gotten to know has some savings and doesn't strictly need to work, but doesn't have enough savings to live comfortably. What is more interesting is that another 15% to 20% of my colleagues at this store are in their late forties to mid fifties. For various reasons they each decided to abandon their careers (found out they didn't believe in what they were doing, or decided to take time off to look after their kids and could never get back into the industry, etc...) It is a bit of a specialized store so I am sure it is not the same distribution as in a Target or a Walmart. However it is also worth mentioning that aside from one or two people (who I am not sure about), everyone else has at least a bachelors degree or is in the process of getting one. There are maybe 15 college students out of a staff of about 60.

jpeg_hero 13y ago

this is why i advise young american's to start developing ties and knowledge of developing economies. make your money in the US. Retire to Bangladesh/Philippines.

NonEUCitizen 13y ago

His math is wrong, and the journalist just put it in the title without doing any simple arithmetic. He makes about $80 a day now, which is $400/week. In flush years, he used to make about $120K. At approximately 2000 work hours per year (in USA), that works out to about $60/hour. So he makes in a week slightly less than his former daily wage. [updated this -- it said more previously. I can't do math either!] It's amazing that even a financial publication like Bloomberg has innumerate journalists.

rsheridan6 13y ago

This guy seems remarkably youthful for 77. A lot of people his age wouldn't be able to handle his jobs, or would not be able to convince an employer to give them a chance. Even a burger flipper has to be able to stand for hours at a time and have a decent short term memory.

malandrew 13y ago

I'm actually shocked that he can't earn better as an educator of some sort. Seems like a great way to spend your like is 1/3 of it learning, 1/3 of it applying what you've learned and learning more from experience and 1/3 of your life sharing what you've learned with those living the first 2/3's of their lives. If you were successful during the first 2/3's of your live, then teaching or sharing your success with others should be possible. That's the route that my dad took, but it wasn't planned and he wasn't even aware to seek it out. He was a two-time CEO, and one of the companies he founded and took it to a moderate exit. However after he left the last company, he moved back home to Brazil, where he encountered ageism over and over again. Companies and recruiters basically told him "Look, you're the perfect candidate. Every company looking to compete internationally would love to have someone like you. However they want someone who has your experience but is 40 to at most 50 years old. My dad is 66. After struggling for a while and burning through a lot of his savings being told no over and over again because of his age, a friend of his put him in touch with Instituto Dom Cabral, probably Brazil's best business school, where he easily got a job as a professor doing managerial consulting advice to companies that pay for access to its professors.