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Why does Apple get a pass on this? They have just taken the alternative approach of fracturing their OS and hardware. It's natural because of where they started

by Todd 13y ago

Why does Apple get a pass on this? They have just taken the alternative approach of fracturing their OS and hardware. It's natural because of where they started (iPod -> iPhone -> iPad), so this isn't a criticism. As a consequence, this is one area where MS is ahead of Apple (even if MS is having difficulties reconciling the tablet vs. desktop experience). MS has touch on the desktop. When is Apple going to have touch on Mac Books? I know SJ said vertical touch screens don't work. They will continue to say so until they add touch. Undoubtedly, they'll do it well, and it will be well integrated with the OS. But they'll continue to say it doesn't work...until it does. Similar to the movement to flat with nary a mention of Metro. So Apple has the challenge of bringing their user-level of their OS offerings closer together (along with the hardware), whereas MS has the challenge of dealing with the Metro/Desktop schism and the x86/ARM dichotomy. Same coin, different sides.

benihana 13y ago
>Why does Apple get a pass on this? Here's why: Last November when the iPad Mini and the iPad 4 launched, Apple sold 3 million iPads over the weekend. Surface has sold about 1.7 million devices total since it launched. http://bgr.com/2013/07/31/microsoft-surface-sales-2013/ http://bgr.com/2013/07/31/microsoft-surface-sales-2013/ It's hard to argue with success. >As a consequence, this is one area where MS is ahead of Apple The numbers seem to disagree with you. The reason Apple doesn't put touch on their Macbooks is cause no one wants it.
- Todd 13y ago
  That's a false argument. These are separate points of discussion. You're arguing that they're right because they were first to market in a new space and have achieved significant momentum. Momentum is just that. They've been riding on it for a while. The last significant innovation was iPad, which was just an evolution of the one real innovation: iPhone. That's only going to carry them so far. Android is eating their market share while Apple is extracting what they can from this momentum and iterating on a theme. I think Apple's products are great. Their ID is fantastic. Their developer ecosystem leaves much to be desired. The fact that I no longer buy their products due to their closed nature (and, by extension, their philosophy for the future: closed, controlled, and owned) does not take away from my admiration of the company from a product and engineering perspective.
  - hmottestad 13y ago
    Actually. Apple was really late to the market with the iPad. Microsoft had been doing tablets for 8 years before Apple came along (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Tablet_PC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Tablet_PC). Apple was the first to bring down the price, make it holdable (in your hand), give it a battery that you don't need to worry about. Give it apps that were only designed for touch. Android is iterating as much as Apple is. They will probably keep iterating until some big hardware breakthrough, maybe when someone releases a ARM86 (compatible ARM and x86 processor)? One major breakthrough of the original iphone was smooth finger tracking made available by the new capitative touch screen.
    - yardie 13y ago
      I'll just leave this little nugget here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Newton https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Newton Before, they were called PDAs and they've existed since the late 80s. Apple wasn't late, they were simply waiting for the technology arrive to do it right.
- fumar 13y ago
  "The reason apple doesn't put touch on their Macbooks is cause no one wants it"... The reason they have not added touch input to OS X, is because its not design for touch. I am sure, Apple will find another input method for their non-mobile hardware. Perhaps something similar to MYO or Leap Motion (or a touchscreen).
  - nwh 13y ago
    There's a better reason. Touch doesn't work for a vertical screen at all, it makes your arms hurt.
- RexRollman 13y ago
  Agree. I don't want touch on a laptop. I see no need to mar the screen of my computer with debris and fingerprints.
tammer 13y ago
>When is Apple going to have touch on Mac Books? I find using a Magic Trackpad with a desktop Mac to be a wonderful experience. After working in a Linux/Windows world for a while, I was surprised at how quickly I stopped relying on hotkeys in favor of gestures. I'd say any Apple computer running 10.7 or later is actually built for 'touch'. I always thought features like 'Launchpad' were useless for those able to type, but they feel more intuitive once you've practiced the gestures. Apple trackpads allow me to directly manipulate content while retaining the cursor accuracy needed for complex interfaces. I'll be surprised if Apple adds capacitive touch to their laptop screens.
- overgryphon 13y ago
  If you have a chance you should try out a touchscreen laptop some time. It is a much more compelling experience then gestures on a trackpad.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
MBCook 13y ago
> So Apple has the challenge of bringing their user-level of their OS offerings closer together (along with the hardware) This is the assumption I don't agree with. Why do we need one OS to run all our devices? Ubuntu Unity is an interesting idea, but is that really where computing should head. I don't see this as Apple "getting a pass", I think they mad e the right decision. It was certainly correct in '07 (for hardware reasons), and I think it still holds up as correct today.
jsz0 13y ago
Given the sales of Surface and touchscreen PCs I have to reject the whole premise of your question. What is Apple getting a 'pass' on here? They seem to be giving consumers what they want/expect out of these devices. Apple could snap their fingers and have a touch enabled version of OSX that's better than Windows 8. They could easily add an x86 target for iOS apps and have a massive library of native touch enabled apps for the Mac. They could do a legacy touch mode as good (low standard) as what Windows 8 has to offer. They obviously haven't done it because they think it sucks. Again given that the market has said the same thing so far the premise of the question is really backwards to me. Apple is getting a pass on not picking a failing strategy!

by Todd 13y ago

benihana 13y ago

>Why does Apple get a pass on this? Here's why: Last November when the iPad Mini and the iPad 4 launched, Apple sold 3 million iPads over the weekend. Surface has sold about 1.7 million devices total since it launched. http://bgr.com/2013/07/31/microsoft-surface-sales-2013/ http://bgr.com/2013/07/31/microsoft-surface-sales-2013/ It's hard to argue with success. >As a consequence, this is one area where MS is ahead of Apple The numbers seem to disagree with you. The reason Apple doesn't put touch on their Macbooks is cause no one wants it.

Todd 13y ago
That's a false argument. These are separate points of discussion. You're arguing that they're right because they were first to market in a new space and have achieved significant momentum. Momentum is just that. They've been riding on it for a while. The last significant innovation was iPad, which was just an evolution of the one real innovation: iPhone. That's only going to carry them so far. Android is eating their market share while Apple is extracting what they can from this momentum and iterating on a theme. I think Apple's products are great. Their ID is fantastic. Their developer ecosystem leaves much to be desired. The fact that I no longer buy their products due to their closed nature (and, by extension, their philosophy for the future: closed, controlled, and owned) does not take away from my admiration of the company from a product and engineering perspective.
- hmottestad 13y ago
  Actually. Apple was really late to the market with the iPad. Microsoft had been doing tablets for 8 years before Apple came along (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Tablet_PC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Tablet_PC). Apple was the first to bring down the price, make it holdable (in your hand), give it a battery that you don't need to worry about. Give it apps that were only designed for touch. Android is iterating as much as Apple is. They will probably keep iterating until some big hardware breakthrough, maybe when someone releases a ARM86 (compatible ARM and x86 processor)? One major breakthrough of the original iphone was smooth finger tracking made available by the new capitative touch screen.
  - yardie 13y ago
    I'll just leave this little nugget here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Newton https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Newton Before, they were called PDAs and they've existed since the late 80s. Apple wasn't late, they were simply waiting for the technology arrive to do it right.
fumar 13y ago
"The reason apple doesn't put touch on their Macbooks is cause no one wants it"... The reason they have not added touch input to OS X, is because its not design for touch. I am sure, Apple will find another input method for their non-mobile hardware. Perhaps something similar to MYO or Leap Motion (or a touchscreen).
- nwh 13y ago
  There's a better reason. Touch doesn't work for a vertical screen at all, it makes your arms hurt.
RexRollman 13y ago
Agree. I don't want touch on a laptop. I see no need to mar the screen of my computer with debris and fingerprints.

tammer 13y ago

>When is Apple going to have touch on Mac Books? I find using a Magic Trackpad with a desktop Mac to be a wonderful experience. After working in a Linux/Windows world for a while, I was surprised at how quickly I stopped relying on hotkeys in favor of gestures. I'd say any Apple computer running 10.7 or later is actually built for 'touch'. I always thought features like 'Launchpad' were useless for those able to type, but they feel more intuitive once you've practiced the gestures. Apple trackpads allow me to directly manipulate content while retaining the cursor accuracy needed for complex interfaces. I'll be surprised if Apple adds capacitive touch to their laptop screens.

overgryphon 13y ago
If you have a chance you should try out a touchscreen laptop some time. It is a much more compelling experience then gestures on a trackpad.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]

MBCook 13y ago

> So Apple has the challenge of bringing their user-level of their OS offerings closer together (along with the hardware) This is the assumption I don't agree with. Why do we need one OS to run all our devices? Ubuntu Unity is an interesting idea, but is that really where computing should head. I don't see this as Apple "getting a pass", I think they mad e the right decision. It was certainly correct in '07 (for hardware reasons), and I think it still holds up as correct today.

jsz0 13y ago

Given the sales of Surface and touchscreen PCs I have to reject the whole premise of your question. What is Apple getting a 'pass' on here? They seem to be giving consumers what they want/expect out of these devices. Apple could snap their fingers and have a touch enabled version of OSX that's better than Windows 8. They could easily add an x86 target for iOS apps and have a massive library of native touch enabled apps for the Mac. They could do a legacy touch mode as good (low standard) as what Windows 8 has to offer. They obviously haven't done it because they think it sucks. Again given that the market has said the same thing so far the premise of the question is really backwards to me. Apple is getting a pass on not picking a failing strategy!