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You're saying this as if Apple is some naive newcomer to the world of online music. > iTunes serves almost no purpose in a modern world. Seriously? iTunes inv

by aroman 13y ago

You're saying this as if Apple is some naive newcomer to the world of online music. > iTunes serves almost no purpose in a modern world. Seriously? iTunes invented modern online music distribution. It singlehandedly heralded in the age of digital music distribution. Just because you don't like the fact that you can't download music from them without using their (very good, in my experience) music player doesn't mean it's useless or their strategy is broken. They know exactly what you've outlined, and they knew it long before you did. Why don't they do it? Because it's antithetical to their business model. Simple as that.

bane 13y ago
> Because it's antithetical to their business model. Simple as that. I agree. Their model is built around locking consumers into this artificial and, these days, complete unnecessary workflow. The next model Apple will have to go to is simple, the competitors are already there: iTunes on the web, cloud stream to your iDevice. But even then this will only work so long as iTunes continues to offer exclusive content that you can't get elsewhere, and that's also rapidly diminshing . As a content provider would you like to be locked into one platform or show up on as many as possible? > iTunes invented modern online music distribution. So? Their model is now, quite frankly and charitably, old fashioned. The only current purpose of which these days is to try and keep people from fleeing to other, better, platforms.
- aroman 13y ago
  > The only current purpose of which these days is to try and keep people from fleeing to other, better, platforms. I can't refute this claim any more than you can back it up, so lets not waste our fingers on an argument about it. I agree with everything else you said, though.
  - bane 13y ago
    Honest question though, and not meant to be argumentative (you already know my thinking on it). What does iTunes do for consumers that the other competing methods (online storefront, stream cloud to device, etc.) don't?
    - nemothekid 13y ago
      I'd imagine its for these couple reasons. 1.) None of the iPod's except the touch have WiFi or any internet connectivity. Can't stream cloud to device if theres no connection. 2.) Infrastructure. Consider for a second that albums routinely push 100+MB, and think about pushing that over 3G/LTE. Telcos will make a fuss, etc. Yeah you can force downloading only over WiFi, but then again whats the point? iTunes already has WiFi sync, and to most people that would be the exact same thing. 3.) iTunes is already there and most people already have it installed. If you don't like it, you can also use the online store on the phone. What it starts boiling down to, is Apple is going to spend x-y million dollars building an online marketplace for some people who don't want to install iTunes. What does an online storefront do for consumers that iTunes doesn't?
    - threeseed 13y ago
      Provide a great experience. Trying to explain to my parents how to get a music file from their browser downloads folder into iTunes would be challenging to say the least. However saying just click this button to Buy and it will be in your Recently Added playlist is much easier.
      - wprl 13y ago
        Perhaps it's a matter of taste but I was thinking yesterday that the iTunes app reminds of the old dial-in AOL.
    - manicdee 13y ago
      What iTunes does is provide music from multiple publishers which you can buy with one click at which point the media is loaded onto all your players without requiring you to jump through hoops such as manually syncing file systems.
koudi 13y ago
> iTunes invented modern online music distribution. I believe it was actually Napster, who invented modern distribution :) Now seriously - iTunes is kinda OK-ish, but web purchase/download could only increase their customer base. Their whole ecosystem works nicely, but I believe that customers will soon require more open approach rather than tying everything to one platform.
- vvhn 13y ago
  you're forgetting that all of Apple's digital storefronts , online services exist for only one reason - as accessories and support systems to their hardware ( Macs and iGadgets ). The only reason iTunes on Windows exists is to increase the addressable market for iPods, iPhones and iPads ( not to increase the addressable market of the iTunes Store itself - but it comes as a side effect of the first one).
  - koudi 13y ago
    True, although such strict lock-in seems to be counter-productive. For example - I have iPad (and love reading on it), but I never buy books on iBooks Store. I use amazon instead, because I can easily strip DRM and convert to any format I want and read anywhere I want (should I ever buy different device). iBooks books are tied to apple devices for ever. This strategy may work for now, but I don't think it's viable in a long term and apple always seemed to prefer bigger picture rather than pursue immediate profits.
    - cremnob 13y ago
      It is long-term. Opening up iBooks to any device or just being available on the web would increase profits immediately. Building out the ecosystem is the long-term part.
TsiCClawOfLight 13y ago
I agree with my 2 siblings. Itunes served a purpose, but that's long gone. If they would at least allow direct downloads to their devices, I might have less gripes with them, but as it stands...
- uncr3ative 13y ago
  I must be misunderstanding, this works for me on my iphone
thezilch 13y ago
You mean Napster "invented" online [music] distribution.
- durzagott 13y ago
  I came here to make this very same comment; glad to see it had already been posted. The pirate industry was light years ahead of anything the corporates were doing. All Apple did was convince the music labels to allow them to distribute their music digitally. The digital download market has succeeded in spite of iTunes, not because of it.
  - epo 13y ago
    There wasn't a market before Apple and there probably wouldn't be one today if Apple, or someone of equal clout, hadn't created that market.
brownbat 13y ago
> Just because you don't like the fact that you can't download music from them without using their (very good, in my experience) music player doesn't mean it's useless or their strategy is broken. Oh, I don't have any animus against the player. While I preferred lighter weight players that support more formats and are easier to customize, foobar, classic winamp, and amarok, Apple definitely made some gains in usability, simplifying the experience for the commodity consumer. I love it when they compete on features, I'm just depressed and frustrated by any company that tries to win through lock in. It's an old quote now, but it still lines up pretty well with my feelings: "The paradigm of competition is a race:by rewarding the winner, we encourage everyone to run faster. When capitalism really works this way, it does a good job; but its defenders are wrong in assuming it always works this way. If the runners forget why the reward is offered and become intent on winning, no matter how, they may find other strategies--such as, attacking other runners. If the runners get into a fist fight, they will all finish late." I understand why companies do these things, just as I understand why people steal or commit fraud. I just wish they wouldn't, that's all.

by aroman 13y ago

bane 13y ago

> Because it's antithetical to their business model. Simple as that. I agree. Their model is built around locking consumers into this artificial and, these days, complete unnecessary workflow. The next model Apple will have to go to is simple, the competitors are already there: iTunes on the web, cloud stream to your iDevice. But even then this will only work so long as iTunes continues to offer exclusive content that you can't get elsewhere, and that's also rapidly diminshing . As a content provider would you like to be locked into one platform or show up on as many as possible? > iTunes invented modern online music distribution. So? Their model is now, quite frankly and charitably, old fashioned. The only current purpose of which these days is to try and keep people from fleeing to other, better, platforms.

aroman 13y ago
> The only current purpose of which these days is to try and keep people from fleeing to other, better, platforms. I can't refute this claim any more than you can back it up, so lets not waste our fingers on an argument about it. I agree with everything else you said, though.
- bane 13y ago
  Honest question though, and not meant to be argumentative (you already know my thinking on it). What does iTunes do for consumers that the other competing methods (online storefront, stream cloud to device, etc.) don't?
  - nemothekid 13y ago
    I'd imagine its for these couple reasons. 1.) None of the iPod's except the touch have WiFi or any internet connectivity. Can't stream cloud to device if theres no connection. 2.) Infrastructure. Consider for a second that albums routinely push 100+MB, and think about pushing that over 3G/LTE. Telcos will make a fuss, etc. Yeah you can force downloading only over WiFi, but then again whats the point? iTunes already has WiFi sync, and to most people that would be the exact same thing. 3.) iTunes is already there and most people already have it installed. If you don't like it, you can also use the online store on the phone. What it starts boiling down to, is Apple is going to spend x-y million dollars building an online marketplace for some people who don't want to install iTunes. What does an online storefront do for consumers that iTunes doesn't?
  - threeseed 13y ago
    Provide a great experience. Trying to explain to my parents how to get a music file from their browser downloads folder into iTunes would be challenging to say the least. However saying just click this button to Buy and it will be in your Recently Added playlist is much easier.
    - wprl 13y ago
      Perhaps it's a matter of taste but I was thinking yesterday that the iTunes app reminds of the old dial-in AOL.
  - manicdee 13y ago
    What iTunes does is provide music from multiple publishers which you can buy with one click at which point the media is loaded onto all your players without requiring you to jump through hoops such as manually syncing file systems.

koudi 13y ago

> iTunes invented modern online music distribution. I believe it was actually Napster, who invented modern distribution :) Now seriously - iTunes is kinda OK-ish, but web purchase/download could only increase their customer base. Their whole ecosystem works nicely, but I believe that customers will soon require more open approach rather than tying everything to one platform.

vvhn 13y ago
you're forgetting that all of Apple's digital storefronts , online services exist for only one reason - as accessories and support systems to their hardware ( Macs and iGadgets ). The only reason iTunes on Windows exists is to increase the addressable market for iPods, iPhones and iPads ( not to increase the addressable market of the iTunes Store itself - but it comes as a side effect of the first one).
- koudi 13y ago
  True, although such strict lock-in seems to be counter-productive. For example - I have iPad (and love reading on it), but I never buy books on iBooks Store. I use amazon instead, because I can easily strip DRM and convert to any format I want and read anywhere I want (should I ever buy different device). iBooks books are tied to apple devices for ever. This strategy may work for now, but I don't think it's viable in a long term and apple always seemed to prefer bigger picture rather than pursue immediate profits.
  - cremnob 13y ago
    It is long-term. Opening up iBooks to any device or just being available on the web would increase profits immediately. Building out the ecosystem is the long-term part.

TsiCClawOfLight 13y ago

I agree with my 2 siblings. Itunes served a purpose, but that's long gone. If they would at least allow direct downloads to their devices, I might have less gripes with them, but as it stands...

uncr3ative 13y ago
I must be misunderstanding, this works for me on my iphone

thezilch 13y ago

You mean Napster "invented" online [music] distribution.

durzagott 13y ago
I came here to make this very same comment; glad to see it had already been posted. The pirate industry was light years ahead of anything the corporates were doing. All Apple did was convince the music labels to allow them to distribute their music digitally. The digital download market has succeeded in spite of iTunes, not because of it.
- epo 13y ago
  There wasn't a market before Apple and there probably wouldn't be one today if Apple, or someone of equal clout, hadn't created that market.

brownbat 13y ago

> Just because you don't like the fact that you can't download music from them without using their (very good, in my experience) music player doesn't mean it's useless or their strategy is broken. Oh, I don't have any animus against the player. While I preferred lighter weight players that support more formats and are easier to customize, foobar, classic winamp, and amarok, Apple definitely made some gains in usability, simplifying the experience for the commodity consumer. I love it when they compete on features, I'm just depressed and frustrated by any company that tries to win through lock in. It's an old quote now, but it still lines up pretty well with my feelings: "The paradigm of competition is a race:by rewarding the winner, we encourage everyone to run faster. When capitalism really works this way, it does a good job; but its defenders are wrong in assuming it always works this way. If the runners forget why the reward is offered and become intent on winning, no matter how, they may find other strategies--such as, attacking other runners. If the runners get into a fist fight, they will all finish late." I understand why companies do these things, just as I understand why people steal or commit fraud. I just wish they wouldn't, that's all.