5 ms·

Yahoo Shares Top $31, The Price Microsoft Offered In 2008

55 points by hknozcan 13y ago

mikeryan 13y ago
With inflation that number is around $33 bucks. But jeez what a silly metric, who's happier that deal didn't happen - Yahoo or Microsoft?
- badave 13y ago
  Yahoo -- I think they were concerned about getting infected by M$'s culture.
  - trafficlight 13y ago
    At least they'd have a culture then.
    - badave 13y ago
      At the time they felt very strongly about it. The employees were adamant about the fact that they had a certain way of doing things and they were concerned that Microsoft would disrupt whatever it was they had. I don't know if it was the right thing for either party, but that's what happened.
- tedsanders 13y ago
  I think it's not very relevant to adjust the price for inflation. You should adjust for opportunity cost instead, like the rate of T-bills.
hknozcan 13y ago
Anybody know what Yang is doing following his resignation last year?
- mikeyouse 13y ago
  Crunchbase lists a bunch of angel investments and a board observer role, but I can't imagine that's what's taking up the majority of his time. http://www.crunchbase.com/person/jerry-yang http://www.crunchbase.com/person/jerry-yang
beambot 13y ago
Yes, and MSFT started 2008 at a share price of $34.38. It's closing price today was $33.64.
- mikeyouse 13y ago
  Since the beginning of 2008, MSFT has paid ~$4/share in dividends as well, so we can't ignore those. http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/msft/dividend-history http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/msft/dividend-history
  - beambot 13y ago
    Fair enough... but we can't exactly hold up microsoft as the paragon of good returns compared to it's cohorts (eg. AAPL, GOOG, etc).
    - mikeyouse 13y ago
      Lol, oh god no. Especially when the NASDAQ is up almost 100% more than MSFT during that time period.
    - bsullivan01 13y ago
      AAPL, GOOG, etc will reach their plateau soon enough. Apple already has flat or worse y/y earnings, Google is on steroids and is ruining their brand to artificially increase their earnings by penalizing sites (advertise or no traffic) and making it all ads in certain sectors. It will last maybe another or two. What then? The point I was making: large tech companies have different rules, they behave more like Exxon and PG then a recently IPO-ed Google or Microsoft.
      - jeswin 13y ago
        penalizing sites (advertise or no traffic) Surprising, if true. I am interested in knowing more. Do you have some good links?
mmgutz 13y ago
Just wondering, how many people use Yahoo? It's supposed to be getting more popular but at least with my peers I don't see that trend. Is it popular outside of the USA?
- hknozcan 13y ago
  http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/08/22/yahoo-surpasses-google-to-take-top-spot/?_r=0 http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/08/22/yahoo-surpasses-goo... Strange, huh?
  - sanswork 13y ago
    Yahoo has a pretty huge portfolio of sites that fit in that bucket compared with googles many(but in honesty generally unpopular outside of search and email) offerings.
- sliverstorm 13y ago
  I find it's more popular in less-techie and/or older circles.
- sanswork 13y ago
  I'm guessing it's popular amongst people who install software that in turn installs a yahoo search toolbar on them that they cannot figure out how to turn off/don't bother to.
  - throw231231244 13y ago
    Or, you know, maybe people actually use a lot of their sites (fantasy sports, email, flickr, finance, entertainment news).
    - sanswork 13y ago
      Yup I point that out a few comments down as far as overall traffic in comparison to Google. I'm referring only to search traffic here.
rread 13y ago
Yay, let's celebrate the underperforming. I suspect many Yahoo investors would rather have had their $31 5 years ago so they could have invested it in something that would actually grow. Though, at least they've had better results than the MSFT investors.
- cma 13y ago
  Did you account for MSFT dividends?
pdog 13y ago
The S&P 500 index was at around 1,300 at the beginning of 2008. It's at around 1,700 today -- actually, a record high. Of course, it reached as low as 700 to 800 in March 2009.
- yapcguy 13y ago
  Quantitative easing is great... Mugabenomics forever! "Priceline.com became the first company listed in the S&P 500 to trade at $1,000 in the index’s 56-year history." http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2013/09/18/on-a-day-of-records-for-stocks-priceline-trades-above-1000/ http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2013/09/18/on-a-day-of-record...
  - seanmcdirmid 13y ago
    Inflation has more to do than with overt quantitative easing. Also, share price has no direct correlation to overall valuation; you have to throw in the number of shares and multiply.
    - MichaelApproved 13y ago
      Quantitative easing = inflation.
      - seanmcdirmid 13y ago
        Quantitative easing causes inflation. Inflation does not require quantitative easing.
        MichaelApproved 13y ago
        Using equals was incorrect. I should have said: Quantitative easing -> inflation
  - tedunangst 13y ago
    Berkshire Hathaway, at $175,000 per share, would have set that record long ago, except the S&P has some fairly arbitrary rules that exclude it. Point being, stock price means nothing.
npalli 13y ago
It should be noted that Yahoo owns 20% of Alibaba. With Alibaba announcing its IPO plans earlier this year, yahoo's stake is worth between $13B to $18B. Most of the share price increase is because of this. Not because Yahoo's core business has gotten better. Yahoo is worth $31B today. So almost 1/3 to 1/2 of Yahoo's valuation is its stake in Alibaba. In 2008, nobody knew how big Alibaba would get.
- seanmcdirmid 13y ago
  Yahoo recently sold most of their stake in Alibaba so Marisa could go on a shopping spree. Back in 2008, Alibaba was already a big thing and probably had to do with Microsoft wanting it.
- nashequilibrium 13y ago
  This is what should scare investors, look at the link below and you realize that Yahoo is a leader in none of their business. Google leads search, Facebook leads social, Twitter realtime news & events etc. http://everything.yahoo.com/ http://everything.yahoo.com/ They have a big bowl of goo right now. I was impressed with Marissa's stats during her Disrupt interview but a few days ago, i took a look at their business and they just have a bunch of mediocre properties with lots of link bait. This is how they getting so many views, a lot of gossip, lifestyle, tv clips. Even in the gossip side, tmz & others beat them there. Dan Loeb is a smart guy, he jumped out at the right time. I like Yahoo and hope they come up with something that they dominate. They destroyed their research departments, which were one of the best in the world and now when the market moves towards more intelligent backends as devices get smaller, they are stuck fighting for weather and gossip market space.
  - wj 13y ago
    They might be the leader in fantasy sports. Obviously a small portion of overall eyeballs but eyeballs that refresh the site many times a day.
epynonymous 13y ago
bought yhoo at 26 usd, set a limit at 31, excellent! i really believe in what melissa meyer's doing for the company, though i dont see them in the same vein as google, more so an online media company, not in terms of a true innovator which is fine because if you get that right, there's plenty of money to be made, buy!
robryan 13y ago
One interesting bit of Yahoo news. Yahoo in Australia is partnering with Adwords rather than Bing Ads. Wouldn't surprise me if all of Yahoo went that way once their contract with Microsoft is up. Despite all the effort it doesn't really feel like Bing Ads is on the map compared to Adwords.
cookiecaper 13y ago
There is no legitimate business-based excuse for Yahoo! to have turned down Microsoft's offer. Yang et al had to fight tooth and nail to keep it from being executed, and that opposition was obviously based purely on ideology: not wanting to become part of the MS behemoth. I don't believe any informed person seriously thought that Yahoo!'s choice to not only forgo but actively prevent Microsoft's buyout had anything to do with anything else.
- bsullivan01 13y ago
  Yang et al had to fight tooth and nail to keep it from being executed, and that opposition was obviously based purely on ideology: not wanting to become part of the MS behemoth And not wanting to sorta admit defeat. That's why companies have boards, to do what is best for shareholders not for founders still thinking they got it. Yahoo's loss = Microsoft's gain. The price goes back and forth, but right now I don't see yahoo leading anything, maybe just online answers. So it's part Marissa euphoria and part Alibaba stake.
lightblade 13y ago
If we factor in the inflation rate over 5 years, then Yahoo should still worth less.

55 points by hknozcan 13y ago

With inflation that number is around $33 bucks. But jeez what a silly metric, who's happier that deal didn't happen - Yahoo or Microsoft?

badave 13y ago
Yahoo -- I think they were concerned about getting infected by M$'s culture.
- trafficlight 13y ago
  At least they'd have a culture then.
  - badave 13y ago
    At the time they felt very strongly about it. The employees were adamant about the fact that they had a certain way of doing things and they were concerned that Microsoft would disrupt whatever it was they had. I don't know if it was the right thing for either party, but that's what happened.
tedsanders 13y ago
I think it's not very relevant to adjust the price for inflation. You should adjust for opportunity cost instead, like the rate of T-bills.

hknozcan 13y ago

Anybody know what Yang is doing following his resignation last year?

mikeyouse 13y ago
Crunchbase lists a bunch of angel investments and a board observer role, but I can't imagine that's what's taking up the majority of his time. http://www.crunchbase.com/person/jerry-yang http://www.crunchbase.com/person/jerry-yang

beambot 13y ago

Yes, and MSFT started 2008 at a share price of $34.38. It's closing price today was $33.64.

mikeyouse 13y ago
Since the beginning of 2008, MSFT has paid ~$4/share in dividends as well, so we can't ignore those. http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/msft/dividend-history http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/msft/dividend-history
- beambot 13y ago
  Fair enough... but we can't exactly hold up microsoft as the paragon of good returns compared to it's cohorts (eg. AAPL, GOOG, etc).
  - mikeyouse 13y ago
    Lol, oh god no. Especially when the NASDAQ is up almost 100% more than MSFT during that time period.
  - bsullivan01 13y ago
    AAPL, GOOG, etc will reach their plateau soon enough. Apple already has flat or worse y/y earnings, Google is on steroids and is ruining their brand to artificially increase their earnings by penalizing sites (advertise or no traffic) and making it all ads in certain sectors. It will last maybe another or two. What then? The point I was making: large tech companies have different rules, they behave more like Exxon and PG then a recently IPO-ed Google or Microsoft.
    - jeswin 13y ago
      penalizing sites (advertise or no traffic) Surprising, if true. I am interested in knowing more. Do you have some good links?

mmgutz 13y ago

Just wondering, how many people use Yahoo? It's supposed to be getting more popular but at least with my peers I don't see that trend. Is it popular outside of the USA?

hknozcan 13y ago
http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/08/22/yahoo-surpasses-google-to-take-top-spot/?_r=0 http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/08/22/yahoo-surpasses-goo... Strange, huh?
- sanswork 13y ago
  Yahoo has a pretty huge portfolio of sites that fit in that bucket compared with googles many(but in honesty generally unpopular outside of search and email) offerings.
sliverstorm 13y ago
I find it's more popular in less-techie and/or older circles.
sanswork 13y ago
I'm guessing it's popular amongst people who install software that in turn installs a yahoo search toolbar on them that they cannot figure out how to turn off/don't bother to.
- throw231231244 13y ago
  Or, you know, maybe people actually use a lot of their sites (fantasy sports, email, flickr, finance, entertainment news).
  - sanswork 13y ago
    Yup I point that out a few comments down as far as overall traffic in comparison to Google. I'm referring only to search traffic here.

rread 13y ago

Yay, let's celebrate the underperforming. I suspect many Yahoo investors would rather have had their $31 5 years ago so they could have invested it in something that would actually grow. Though, at least they've had better results than the MSFT investors.

cma 13y ago
Did you account for MSFT dividends?

pdog 13y ago

The S&P 500 index was at around 1,300 at the beginning of 2008. It's at around 1,700 today -- actually, a record high. Of course, it reached as low as 700 to 800 in March 2009.

yapcguy 13y ago
Quantitative easing is great... Mugabenomics forever! "Priceline.com became the first company listed in the S&P 500 to trade at $1,000 in the index’s 56-year history." http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2013/09/18/on-a-day-of-records-for-stocks-priceline-trades-above-1000/ http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2013/09/18/on-a-day-of-record...
- seanmcdirmid 13y ago
  Inflation has more to do than with overt quantitative easing. Also, share price has no direct correlation to overall valuation; you have to throw in the number of shares and multiply.
  - MichaelApproved 13y ago
    Quantitative easing = inflation.
    - seanmcdirmid 13y ago
      Quantitative easing causes inflation. Inflation does not require quantitative easing.
      - MichaelApproved 13y ago
        Using equals was incorrect. I should have said: Quantitative easing -> inflation
- tedunangst 13y ago
  Berkshire Hathaway, at $175,000 per share, would have set that record long ago, except the S&P has some fairly arbitrary rules that exclude it. Point being, stock price means nothing.

npalli 13y ago

It should be noted that Yahoo owns 20% of Alibaba. With Alibaba announcing its IPO plans earlier this year, yahoo's stake is worth between $13B to $18B. Most of the share price increase is because of this. Not because Yahoo's core business has gotten better. Yahoo is worth $31B today. So almost 1/3 to 1/2 of Yahoo's valuation is its stake in Alibaba. In 2008, nobody knew how big Alibaba would get.

seanmcdirmid 13y ago
Yahoo recently sold most of their stake in Alibaba so Marisa could go on a shopping spree. Back in 2008, Alibaba was already a big thing and probably had to do with Microsoft wanting it.
nashequilibrium 13y ago
This is what should scare investors, look at the link below and you realize that Yahoo is a leader in none of their business. Google leads search, Facebook leads social, Twitter realtime news & events etc. http://everything.yahoo.com/ http://everything.yahoo.com/ They have a big bowl of goo right now. I was impressed with Marissa's stats during her Disrupt interview but a few days ago, i took a look at their business and they just have a bunch of mediocre properties with lots of link bait. This is how they getting so many views, a lot of gossip, lifestyle, tv clips. Even in the gossip side, tmz & others beat them there. Dan Loeb is a smart guy, he jumped out at the right time. I like Yahoo and hope they come up with something that they dominate. They destroyed their research departments, which were one of the best in the world and now when the market moves towards more intelligent backends as devices get smaller, they are stuck fighting for weather and gossip market space.
- wj 13y ago
  They might be the leader in fantasy sports. Obviously a small portion of overall eyeballs but eyeballs that refresh the site many times a day.

epynonymous 13y ago

bought yhoo at 26 usd, set a limit at 31, excellent! i really believe in what melissa meyer's doing for the company, though i dont see them in the same vein as google, more so an online media company, not in terms of a true innovator which is fine because if you get that right, there's plenty of money to be made, buy!

robryan 13y ago

One interesting bit of Yahoo news. Yahoo in Australia is partnering with Adwords rather than Bing Ads. Wouldn't surprise me if all of Yahoo went that way once their contract with Microsoft is up. Despite all the effort it doesn't really feel like Bing Ads is on the map compared to Adwords.

cookiecaper 13y ago

There is no legitimate business-based excuse for Yahoo! to have turned down Microsoft's offer. Yang et al had to fight tooth and nail to keep it from being executed, and that opposition was obviously based purely on ideology: not wanting to become part of the MS behemoth. I don't believe any informed person seriously thought that Yahoo!'s choice to not only forgo but actively prevent Microsoft's buyout had anything to do with anything else.

bsullivan01 13y ago
Yang et al had to fight tooth and nail to keep it from being executed, and that opposition was obviously based purely on ideology: not wanting to become part of the MS behemoth And not wanting to sorta admit defeat. That's why companies have boards, to do what is best for shareholders not for founders still thinking they got it. Yahoo's loss = Microsoft's gain. The price goes back and forth, but right now I don't see yahoo leading anything, maybe just online answers. So it's part Marissa euphoria and part Alibaba stake.

lightblade 13y ago

If we factor in the inflation rate over 5 years, then Yahoo should still worth less.