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On top of it, geek culture is a hipster culture. Oh you listen to obscure geeky bands and wear comic/anime t-shirts all the time? You purposely disengage from m

On top of it, geek culture is a hipster culture. Oh you listen to obscure geeky bands and wear comic/anime t-shirts all the time? You purposely disengage from mainstream society? You're overly critical of the status quo and only socialize with people exactly like you? Gee, that sounds like the guy you're criticizing.

Torgo 13y ago
I can't help but feel that a large portion of the current "geek culture" is a collection of appropriations from a different group, selected for "authenticity", similar to criticisms of the wider hipster culture. I wore thick-rim glasses because 1. I didn't/couldn't care about fashion 2. my parents didn't have the money for nicer frames and 3. I actually could not see without glasses. So yeah, when I see thick rim glasses being worn _because_ they "look geeky," or worse, without even any lenses because the person has perfect vision, it annoys me a little bit. Because I got treated like dog shit by the exact same class of person who now dresses in a parody of my life as a frivolous fashion decision.
- md224 13y ago
  I grew up wearing "dorky" glasses, switched to vertically narrower frames, and now wear a pair of Warby Parker retro-ish glasses (http://bit.ly/1btLNTC http://bit.ly/1btLNTC for reference). So as someone who's been on both sides, I find your response pretty interesting. I can understand your annoyance and you're certainly entitled to it. I suppose the first thing I did when I read your post is ask myself "Well, why do I wear these glasses?" The simple answer is that my girlfriend thought I should get new glasses, so we picked out a bunch from Warby Parker to try on and she liked these the best. But even though she picked them out, I was complicit in the choice; if she had picked out some sort of bizarrely-shaped polka-dotted frame, I'm pretty sure I would've vetoed that. So there was some part of me that said "hey, I kinda like how I look in these." Now, does this mean I'm appropriating a look that was formerly a magnet for bullies? Maybe. But the key thing to remember when considering the relationship between ridicule and compliments is that both are equally arbitrary. There was no reason for people to mock you or me for our choice of glasses back then, just like there's no intrinsic reason that these same glasses should appear attractive 10 years later. That's just how fashion/culture works. I think if someone personally harassed someone else for wearing "dorky" glasses, and then later decided to wear that same style of glasses to appear fashionable while continuing to deride people that don't share their taste in clothing, then yeah, that would seem pretty hypocritical.
- sequoia 13y ago
  > Because I got treated like dog shit by the exact same class of person who now dresses in a parody of my life What suggests to you that these are the same people? Like, if I wore lensless glasses for kicks, would that put me into the "high school bully" class? You're doing what TFA complains about: making assumptions about people & speaking ill of them because of how they dress. Why make assumptions? Why get mad because some guy wears a V-neck?
  - Torgo 13y ago
    Because it's not arbitrary. I didn't get punched in the guts when I was a kid because I was wearing tight pants driving a pennyfarthing. I was punched in the guts because I was a "nerd" which meant "not cool." So when someone copies the cartoon version of me to be "cool" I'm entitled to be annoyed. I was who I was, I wasn't trying to fit an "image." Unlike hipsters, which are a real thing, I didn't get the privilege of being made fun of for trying so desperately hard to look a certain way; I was made fun of for being who I really was. It's "cool" to be a nerd now, only in the sense that you can generally like whatever you want and be accepted for it. And I think that's great. Wish it was like that when I was a kid. Hipsters tried to make being a "nerd" "cool" in their usual exclusionary fashion, by ironically appropriating what they thought was ugly and awkward. Unsurprisingly us ugly, awkward folks didn't like that. EDIT: I have nothing against the guy in the article, to make that clear.
    - jlgreco 13y ago
      Why do you think any given hipster wasn't also punched in the gut for being a nerd? Who are you to say that your nerd style sense is somehow more "real" than their adopted image now? For all you know they were a nerd then, continue to be a nerd now, and have merely refined how they carry themselves. Maybe hipsters look like cool kids trying to make "nerd" cool because they are actually nerds who are cool. Who the hell knows? Not you. You are just judging them for their style and how well they can pull it off. This tells you nothing of who they actually are.
    - flumbaps 13y ago
      I don't know, like the article says, it's easy to confuse deep sincerity for irony. Some of hipster/geek chic is about beauty shining through unflattering clothes and awkwardness. Some of it is genuine appreciation for unusual things. Both part of a movement towards being more accepting of differences.
- smsm42 13y ago
  So you are hating some actual person because years ago some other person which has absolutely nothing to do with the first person except for you classifying the as "same class of person" did something bad to you? Are you realizing that in this scenario you are the problem and if only you stopped classifying people by "classes" and started treating them as individuals there would be no reason for annoyance at all?
jlgreco 13y ago
Ehh, I think there is certainly some overlap, particularly in the "retro" tastes, but I don't think what you are describing as geek culture is really a subset of hipster culture. Mario tshirts? Sure, you could call that hipster. Anime tshirts? I wouldn't say so. People with both styles are in many of my social circles, but they still seem relatively distinct to me.
- jakebellacera 13y ago
  > Anime tshirts? I wouldn't say so. Depending on where you're at culturally, anime could be relatively obscure. Hipster is a blanket term that really means something along the lines of "they're doing something unique to others in order to stand out and be 'cool.'" A "geek" may wear a Github or a Mario T-shirt because it's "cool" within their circle, but relatively obscure to the general public.
  - jlgreco 13y ago
    I don't think it is accurate to just sum up "hipster culture" as obscure, or even obscure and retro. It is more nuanced than that. You could dress up like a 1980s goth kid, which is retro and relatively obscure these days, but I don't think many people would consider that hipster. I think anime t-shirts are similar, even where anime is obscure (also, I think outside of college campuses, anime is universally more obscure than many people believe).
    - potatolicious 13y ago
      > "You could dress up like a 1980s goth kid, which is retro and relatively obscure these days, but I don't think many people would consider that hipster." You might be surprised. There used to be a Tumblr blog called LookAtThatFuckingHipster, and it was kind of funny the insane range of people that get submitted there. Part of the silliness of hipster-hating is that it would seem we can't even agree what constitutes a hipster! I remember seeing more than a few emos and goths in the bunch.
      - 13y ago
L4mppu 13y ago
Being hipster is just trying to look cool for doing everything that isn't actually cool. Being geek is about doing things that you like that just happen to be geeky.
- EvanKelly 13y ago
  It's very presumptuous of you to assume that "hipsters" don't actually enjoy the things they do.
  - Dylan16807 13y ago
    If they actually enjoy what they're doing, and not the feeling of being 'counterculture', then they're not being "hipsters". It's pretty simple.
    - sequoia 13y ago
      Do you think they're doing it (playing Go, listening to vinyl, whatever) despite not enjoying it? That seems a weird, self-sacrificing thing to do.
      - Dylan16807 13y ago
        It's not like vinyl is a huge sacrifice in quality. I think you underestimate the value of feeling special/cool, especially in somebody 15-25.
      - yareally 13y ago
        They drink PBR, I think that says enough about self-sacrificing if one has any tastebuds left.
        jlgreco 13y ago
        PBR is very cheap, and actually very tolerable when you are in the market for cheap American lagers. Before it got a reputation for being "hipster" it was a popular "blue collar" beer, and for good reason. I'd call it better than Budweiser, worse than Coors. Certainly better than the other heavyweight in 'cheap booze that young people drink': Natural Light. For some reason drinking natty light is not seen to be as damming an indicator on a persons character though... that is reserved for PBR.
mcantelon 13y ago
Geek culture gets pretty tiresome too.
MartinCron 13y ago
A few years ago I pulled up to a four-way stop on my Vespa Granturismo at the same time that there were 3 other Vespa riders pulled up to the other three sides and I thought to myself, "wow, just look at all of the quirky individualist non-conformists!"
steauengeglase 13y ago
Hipsterism is nothing new (we were complaining about it back when affluent kids started hitting juke joints in the poor part of town). We call it a sub-culture but it isn't one and never has been. It is most often upper-middle kids (generally white) adopting and gentrifying sub-cultures and then abandoning them when all of the cool has been drained out. What is left becomes fodder for "ironic" mockery. That is what the author never thinks of addressing. What he boils down to "they hate me because they think I want attention" isn't because he wants attention, it is because he has taken on the trappings of a group who devour other groups.

Torgo 13y ago

I can't help but feel that a large portion of the current "geek culture" is a collection of appropriations from a different group, selected for "authenticity", similar to criticisms of the wider hipster culture. I wore thick-rim glasses because 1. I didn't/couldn't care about fashion 2. my parents didn't have the money for nicer frames and 3. I actually could not see without glasses. So yeah, when I see thick rim glasses being worn _because_ they "look geeky," or worse, without even any lenses because the person has perfect vision, it annoys me a little bit. Because I got treated like dog shit by the exact same class of person who now dresses in a parody of my life as a frivolous fashion decision.

md224 13y ago
I grew up wearing "dorky" glasses, switched to vertically narrower frames, and now wear a pair of Warby Parker retro-ish glasses (http://bit.ly/1btLNTC http://bit.ly/1btLNTC for reference). So as someone who's been on both sides, I find your response pretty interesting. I can understand your annoyance and you're certainly entitled to it. I suppose the first thing I did when I read your post is ask myself "Well, why do I wear these glasses?" The simple answer is that my girlfriend thought I should get new glasses, so we picked out a bunch from Warby Parker to try on and she liked these the best. But even though she picked them out, I was complicit in the choice; if she had picked out some sort of bizarrely-shaped polka-dotted frame, I'm pretty sure I would've vetoed that. So there was some part of me that said "hey, I kinda like how I look in these." Now, does this mean I'm appropriating a look that was formerly a magnet for bullies? Maybe. But the key thing to remember when considering the relationship between ridicule and compliments is that both are equally arbitrary. There was no reason for people to mock you or me for our choice of glasses back then, just like there's no intrinsic reason that these same glasses should appear attractive 10 years later. That's just how fashion/culture works. I think if someone personally harassed someone else for wearing "dorky" glasses, and then later decided to wear that same style of glasses to appear fashionable while continuing to deride people that don't share their taste in clothing, then yeah, that would seem pretty hypocritical.
sequoia 13y ago
> Because I got treated like dog shit by the exact same class of person who now dresses in a parody of my life What suggests to you that these are the same people? Like, if I wore lensless glasses for kicks, would that put me into the "high school bully" class? You're doing what TFA complains about: making assumptions about people & speaking ill of them because of how they dress. Why make assumptions? Why get mad because some guy wears a V-neck?
- Torgo 13y ago
  Because it's not arbitrary. I didn't get punched in the guts when I was a kid because I was wearing tight pants driving a pennyfarthing. I was punched in the guts because I was a "nerd" which meant "not cool." So when someone copies the cartoon version of me to be "cool" I'm entitled to be annoyed. I was who I was, I wasn't trying to fit an "image." Unlike hipsters, which are a real thing, I didn't get the privilege of being made fun of for trying so desperately hard to look a certain way; I was made fun of for being who I really was. It's "cool" to be a nerd now, only in the sense that you can generally like whatever you want and be accepted for it. And I think that's great. Wish it was like that when I was a kid. Hipsters tried to make being a "nerd" "cool" in their usual exclusionary fashion, by ironically appropriating what they thought was ugly and awkward. Unsurprisingly us ugly, awkward folks didn't like that. EDIT: I have nothing against the guy in the article, to make that clear.
  - jlgreco 13y ago
    Why do you think any given hipster wasn't also punched in the gut for being a nerd? Who are you to say that your nerd style sense is somehow more "real" than their adopted image now? For all you know they were a nerd then, continue to be a nerd now, and have merely refined how they carry themselves. Maybe hipsters look like cool kids trying to make "nerd" cool because they are actually nerds who are cool. Who the hell knows? Not you. You are just judging them for their style and how well they can pull it off. This tells you nothing of who they actually are.
  - flumbaps 13y ago
    I don't know, like the article says, it's easy to confuse deep sincerity for irony. Some of hipster/geek chic is about beauty shining through unflattering clothes and awkwardness. Some of it is genuine appreciation for unusual things. Both part of a movement towards being more accepting of differences.
smsm42 13y ago
So you are hating some actual person because years ago some other person which has absolutely nothing to do with the first person except for you classifying the as "same class of person" did something bad to you? Are you realizing that in this scenario you are the problem and if only you stopped classifying people by "classes" and started treating them as individuals there would be no reason for annoyance at all?

jlgreco 13y ago

Ehh, I think there is certainly some overlap, particularly in the "retro" tastes, but I don't think what you are describing as geek culture is really a subset of hipster culture. Mario tshirts? Sure, you could call that hipster. Anime tshirts? I wouldn't say so. People with both styles are in many of my social circles, but they still seem relatively distinct to me.

jakebellacera 13y ago
> Anime tshirts? I wouldn't say so. Depending on where you're at culturally, anime could be relatively obscure. Hipster is a blanket term that really means something along the lines of "they're doing something unique to others in order to stand out and be 'cool.'" A "geek" may wear a Github or a Mario T-shirt because it's "cool" within their circle, but relatively obscure to the general public.
- jlgreco 13y ago
  I don't think it is accurate to just sum up "hipster culture" as obscure, or even obscure and retro. It is more nuanced than that. You could dress up like a 1980s goth kid, which is retro and relatively obscure these days, but I don't think many people would consider that hipster. I think anime t-shirts are similar, even where anime is obscure (also, I think outside of college campuses, anime is universally more obscure than many people believe).
  - potatolicious 13y ago
    > "You could dress up like a 1980s goth kid, which is retro and relatively obscure these days, but I don't think many people would consider that hipster." You might be surprised. There used to be a Tumblr blog called LookAtThatFuckingHipster, and it was kind of funny the insane range of people that get submitted there. Part of the silliness of hipster-hating is that it would seem we can't even agree what constitutes a hipster! I remember seeing more than a few emos and goths in the bunch.
    - 13y ago

L4mppu 13y ago

Being hipster is just trying to look cool for doing everything that isn't actually cool. Being geek is about doing things that you like that just happen to be geeky.

EvanKelly 13y ago
It's very presumptuous of you to assume that "hipsters" don't actually enjoy the things they do.
- Dylan16807 13y ago
  If they actually enjoy what they're doing, and not the feeling of being 'counterculture', then they're not being "hipsters". It's pretty simple.
  - sequoia 13y ago
    Do you think they're doing it (playing Go, listening to vinyl, whatever) despite not enjoying it? That seems a weird, self-sacrificing thing to do.
    - Dylan16807 13y ago
      It's not like vinyl is a huge sacrifice in quality. I think you underestimate the value of feeling special/cool, especially in somebody 15-25.
    - yareally 13y ago
      They drink PBR, I think that says enough about self-sacrificing if one has any tastebuds left.
      - jlgreco 13y ago
        PBR is very cheap, and actually very tolerable when you are in the market for cheap American lagers. Before it got a reputation for being "hipster" it was a popular "blue collar" beer, and for good reason. I'd call it better than Budweiser, worse than Coors. Certainly better than the other heavyweight in 'cheap booze that young people drink': Natural Light. For some reason drinking natty light is not seen to be as damming an indicator on a persons character though... that is reserved for PBR.

mcantelon 13y ago

Geek culture gets pretty tiresome too.

MartinCron 13y ago

A few years ago I pulled up to a four-way stop on my Vespa Granturismo at the same time that there were 3 other Vespa riders pulled up to the other three sides and I thought to myself, "wow, just look at all of the quirky individualist non-conformists!"

steauengeglase 13y ago

Hipsterism is nothing new (we were complaining about it back when affluent kids started hitting juke joints in the poor part of town). We call it a sub-culture but it isn't one and never has been. It is most often upper-middle kids (generally white) adopting and gentrifying sub-cultures and then abandoning them when all of the cool has been drained out. What is left becomes fodder for "ironic" mockery. That is what the author never thinks of addressing. What he boils down to "they hate me because they think I want attention" isn't because he wants attention, it is because he has taken on the trappings of a group who devour other groups.