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> Apple remains in total control of the industry. This is a nice phone, but I'm sorry - if you think Apple "remains in total control of the industry" with sub

> Apple remains in total control of the industry. This is a nice phone, but I'm sorry - if you think Apple "remains in total control of the industry" with sub 20% marketshare and shrinking you are delusional. Whatever you may think of the theorerical advantages that Apple has, its not working for them outside of the US.

lostlogin 13y ago
Do you measure BMW, Rolex and Gucci, by market share? Or profit share? There are more meaningful measures than market share and picking a measure the company isn't particularly interested or aiming for in is a strange choice.
- rednukleus 13y ago
  I wouldn't describe any of those companies as "in total control of their industry" I would call them nice high end niche products.
  - seanmcdirmid 13y ago
    If Apple has 20% market share but 50+% profit share, then what does that mean? BMW is definitely in control of the luxury car industry, which is quite huge worldwide in terms of revenue and more importantly, profit. It depends on how narrowly you define "industry."
    - rednukleus 13y ago
      Sure, if you define it narrowly enough, then you can call almost every large company "in total control" of the niche in which they operate.
    - arethuza 13y ago
      "BMW is definitely in control of the luxury car industry" I think VW Group and Mercedes-Benz might argue with that. Of course, it depends how you define "luxury" but with Bugatti, Bentley, Lamborghini, Porsche and Audi brands, VW Group seem to be doing pretty well.
    - josteink 13y ago
      > If Apple has 20% market share but 50+% profit share, then what does that mean? It may keep the shareholders happy, but ultimately it means nothing to anyone else. I don't see why people keep brining up this retarded meme.
      - sbuk 13y ago
        They bring it up on response to the inevitable Android market share meme.
    - w1ntermute 13y ago
      > If Apple has 20% market share but 50+% profit share, then what does that mean? Except it doesn't: http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2013/07/26/samsung-dethrones-apple-in-smartphone-profits/ http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2013/07/26/samsung-dethrones-app... You Apple fanboys are constantly moving the goalposts. First it was who sells more devices, then it was who had more revenue. Now you've lost the "who has more profits" argument as well. What's it going to be next? Who uses more aluminum in their devices?
      - dragontamer 13y ago
        I never understood why people are so proud of a company having significantly higher margins than their competitors. Unless I owned _stock_ in a company (and then refused to buy their products), I'd rather buy my stuff with as razor-thin of a margin as possible. But thanks for the link, I'll be using these statistics in future debates against the iCult.
        Supermighty 13y ago
        People want to be on the winning team.
        seanmcdirmid 13y ago
        Margins are an indication of how good the product is. Either you compete on quality, or you compete on price, basically. Also, value != price alone, or even the margin the company is making on the product (they could just be more efficient and better at execution than their competitors).
        dragontamer 13y ago
        Margins are an indication of how much you're getting screwed by your supplier. Now don't get me wrong, a number of Apple-users are rational beings. They actually argue to me that they get huge value from iDevices, and I'm fine with that. If its your cup of tea, yes, go on and get it. (And I won't call these guys part of the iCult. Rational Apple-users are indeed... rational). However, people like you argue that high margins are a good thing. NO THEY'RE NOT. Margins are: * Cost of the device MINUS cost that Apple spent to create the device The larger the margin, the more Apple is screwing you out of your money. Period. No rational consumer should EVER be happy about being conned out of tons and tons of money. And to see these idiotic members of the iCult, so proud... so happy to waste money, and BRAG about the margins that Apple is stealing from them... it really is enough to make me lose faith in the free market. Remember, in a free-market with perfect competition, profits approach zero. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_competition http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_competition / http://www.economicprofit.org/Zero-Economic-Profit.html http://www.economicprofit.org/Zero-Economic-Profit.html. Consumers in a free market should NEVER be pleased when they learn that the products they buy are leading to record-breaking profits on top of record-breaking margins for a company.
gfodor 13y ago
Watch all the Android phones suddenly appear in late 2014 with fingerprint scanners. Just watch.
- rednukleus 13y ago
  I think you are confusing "being influential" with "being in total control of the industry"
- BitMastro 13y ago
  You mean like they already did in 2011? http://bgr.com/2011/02/09/motorola-atrix-4g-review/ http://bgr.com/2011/02/09/motorola-atrix-4g-review/
  - gfodor 13y ago
    You pointed a link to one android phone. I'm suggesting that in 2014 there will be many android phones with front-panel fingerprint scanners.
    - BitMastro 13y ago
      There was another one last August http://www.talkandroid.com/170717-pantech-officially-announces-the-vega-lte-a-with-fingerprint-scanner-onboard/ http://www.talkandroid.com/170717-pantech-officially-announc... And a new one from HTC probably in Q4 http://www.techradar.com/news/phone-and-communications/mobile-phones/could-the-htc-one-max-come-carrying-a-fingerprint-scanner--1174184 http://www.techradar.com/news/phone-and-communications/mobil... I doubt that the scanner will be on the front, because it will take valuable screen space (there are no hardware buttons on android) I also doubt the apart from a bunch of phones there will be many using this technology. It didn't catch with the motorola phone because the sensor was prone to errors. Apple bought a fingerprint scanner company last year http://www.macworld.com/article/1167917/apple_acquires_fingerprint_scanner_firm_authentec.html http://www.macworld.com/article/1167917/apple_acquires_finge... and had a good chance to create a good quality sensor, I don't think others will have the same technology available.
- 13y ago

lostlogin 13y ago

Do you measure BMW, Rolex and Gucci, by market share? Or profit share? There are more meaningful measures than market share and picking a measure the company isn't particularly interested or aiming for in is a strange choice.

rednukleus 13y ago
I wouldn't describe any of those companies as "in total control of their industry" I would call them nice high end niche products.
- seanmcdirmid 13y ago
  If Apple has 20% market share but 50+% profit share, then what does that mean? BMW is definitely in control of the luxury car industry, which is quite huge worldwide in terms of revenue and more importantly, profit. It depends on how narrowly you define "industry."
  - rednukleus 13y ago
    Sure, if you define it narrowly enough, then you can call almost every large company "in total control" of the niche in which they operate.
  - arethuza 13y ago
    "BMW is definitely in control of the luxury car industry" I think VW Group and Mercedes-Benz might argue with that. Of course, it depends how you define "luxury" but with Bugatti, Bentley, Lamborghini, Porsche and Audi brands, VW Group seem to be doing pretty well.
  - josteink 13y ago
    > If Apple has 20% market share but 50+% profit share, then what does that mean? It may keep the shareholders happy, but ultimately it means nothing to anyone else. I don't see why people keep brining up this retarded meme.
    - sbuk 13y ago
      They bring it up on response to the inevitable Android market share meme.
  - w1ntermute 13y ago
    > If Apple has 20% market share but 50+% profit share, then what does that mean? Except it doesn't: http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2013/07/26/samsung-dethrones-apple-in-smartphone-profits/ http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2013/07/26/samsung-dethrones-app... You Apple fanboys are constantly moving the goalposts. First it was who sells more devices, then it was who had more revenue. Now you've lost the "who has more profits" argument as well. What's it going to be next? Who uses more aluminum in their devices?
    - dragontamer 13y ago
      I never understood why people are so proud of a company having significantly higher margins than their competitors. Unless I owned _stock_ in a company (and then refused to buy their products), I'd rather buy my stuff with as razor-thin of a margin as possible. But thanks for the link, I'll be using these statistics in future debates against the iCult.
      - Supermighty 13y ago
        People want to be on the winning team.
        seanmcdirmid 13y ago
        Margins are an indication of how good the product is. Either you compete on quality, or you compete on price, basically. Also, value != price alone, or even the margin the company is making on the product (they could just be more efficient and better at execution than their competitors).
        dragontamer 13y ago
        Margins are an indication of how much you're getting screwed by your supplier. Now don't get me wrong, a number of Apple-users are rational beings. They actually argue to me that they get huge value from iDevices, and I'm fine with that. If its your cup of tea, yes, go on and get it. (And I won't call these guys part of the iCult. Rational Apple-users are indeed... rational). However, people like you argue that high margins are a good thing. NO THEY'RE NOT. Margins are: * Cost of the device MINUS cost that Apple spent to create the device The larger the margin, the more Apple is screwing you out of your money. Period. No rational consumer should EVER be happy about being conned out of tons and tons of money. And to see these idiotic members of the iCult, so proud... so happy to waste money, and BRAG about the margins that Apple is stealing from them... it really is enough to make me lose faith in the free market. Remember, in a free-market with perfect competition, profits approach zero. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_competition http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_competition / http://www.economicprofit.org/Zero-Economic-Profit.html http://www.economicprofit.org/Zero-Economic-Profit.html. Consumers in a free market should NEVER be pleased when they learn that the products they buy are leading to record-breaking profits on top of record-breaking margins for a company.

gfodor 13y ago

Watch all the Android phones suddenly appear in late 2014 with fingerprint scanners. Just watch.

rednukleus 13y ago
I think you are confusing "being influential" with "being in total control of the industry"
BitMastro 13y ago
You mean like they already did in 2011? http://bgr.com/2011/02/09/motorola-atrix-4g-review/ http://bgr.com/2011/02/09/motorola-atrix-4g-review/
- gfodor 13y ago
  You pointed a link to one android phone. I'm suggesting that in 2014 there will be many android phones with front-panel fingerprint scanners.
  - BitMastro 13y ago
    There was another one last August http://www.talkandroid.com/170717-pantech-officially-announces-the-vega-lte-a-with-fingerprint-scanner-onboard/ http://www.talkandroid.com/170717-pantech-officially-announc... And a new one from HTC probably in Q4 http://www.techradar.com/news/phone-and-communications/mobile-phones/could-the-htc-one-max-come-carrying-a-fingerprint-scanner--1174184 http://www.techradar.com/news/phone-and-communications/mobil... I doubt that the scanner will be on the front, because it will take valuable screen space (there are no hardware buttons on android) I also doubt the apart from a bunch of phones there will be many using this technology. It didn't catch with the motorola phone because the sensor was prone to errors. Apple bought a fingerprint scanner company last year http://www.macworld.com/article/1167917/apple_acquires_fingerprint_scanner_firm_authentec.html http://www.macworld.com/article/1167917/apple_acquires_finge... and had a good chance to create a good quality sensor, I don't think others will have the same technology available.
13y ago