7 ms·

iOS App Store now allows legacy downloads to support older OSes

86 points by cleverjake 13y ago

dshep 13y ago
Good move Apple!
chucknelson 13y ago
A good thing for consumers, but I wonder how developers feel about this. If they fix some bug that may have been causing big problems on a server-side component, won't they now have to worry about these older versions being used?
- div 13y ago
  That's something you've always had to worry about though. You can't force a user to upgrade, so your best bet is to handle those issues server-side.
  - jedberg 13y ago
    > You can't force a user to upgrade Sure you can. Netflix will sometimes have to do this. The old software just isn't allowed to talk to the server anymore.
    - iwasakabukiman 13y ago
      Which would be handling thins server side.
      - ianstallings 13y ago
        You can do this app-side by checking the version versus what's in the app store via itunes webservice. For example: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2221436/can-i-force-an-iphone-user-to-upgrade-an-application http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2221436/can-i-force-an-ip... I don't recommend that unless you have a mission critical bug, and even then I'd discourage it. A user is in charge of his/her device. I version APIs on the backend and then simply push out updates like any other software. If they choose not to use it then not much I can do. Eventually I'll turn the older API versions off and they'll either have to upgrade or stop using the app.
- escoz 13y ago
  If there was a bug in the old version that is not compatible with the latest, there was no way to fix it anyway. This change doesn't solve that issue, but it solves 99% of the cases I deal with, which is old users complaining they can't get the app they bought after a release drops an old iOS version.
div 13y ago
This is great for customers. I wonder if and how having that popup appear will affect people upgrading to the latest and greatest.
- AlisdairSH 13y ago
  Presumably, you'd only see the pop-up if you're running a non-current version of iOS (and need the previous version of the app)?
  - div 13y ago
    Correct, what I'm wondering about is how this popup will drive people to realize that "hey, I can upgrade to a new version of iOS". iOS already has a pretty fast adoption rate for new versions, I wonder if this will make it even better.
jaysonelliot 13y ago
It's a wonderful half-measure, but also serves to highlight a problem with cloud-based installs that I'm not optimistic will ever go away. When software was distributed physically, the consumer always had the freedom to use any version of an application they liked. Want to run a lightweight version of Word because you don't need all the latest features, or maybe you just hate the new UI? No problem. Did you like some video game better before they "improved" it? Just get the old disk out and play it. Some people will argue that software developers should be able to require that their customers always have the latest versions of their product. I personally believe that decision should be in the hands of the user. I'd love to see Apple allow side-loading for consumers, at the very least. The best solution, in my opinion, would be to also allow users to access some kind of "advanced" menu that would let them choose whichever older version of an app they choose.
- arn 13y ago
  This is actually an advantage of cloud distribution. What if you want to run an older version of Word but haven't bought it yet? It can be a pain to find an old copy to buy. Whereas Apple has all the old versions on their servers and can deliver the exact one that will run on your system.
  - pdpi 13y ago
    Provided Apple (or whatever other provider) actually distributes the old versions. Somehow, that never seems to be the case.
    - iwasakabukiman 13y ago
      What do you mean? The whole purpose of this new feature is that Apple is giving users older versions when they need them...
      - pdpi 13y ago
        Which is novel enough to be a news article.
donretag 13y ago
I wonder if this applies to the Mac App Store, but I doubt it. I want to purchase Logic for an older Macbook, but the OS doesn't support Logic X. Apple won't sell a compatible version and there is no shrink-wrapped version.
- jasomill 13y ago
  Sure there is; while Apple no longer produces it or sells it directly, it's still in the channel, e.g., from Amazon[1]. [1] http://www.amazon.com/Apple-Logic-Studio-Old-Version/dp/B002ISDD1K http://www.amazon.com/Apple-Logic-Studio-Old-Version/dp/B002...
hcarvalhoalves 13y ago
This is basically Apple themselves showing they don't trust everybody will like iOS7.
- bonaldi 13y ago
  It's less that and more that there is now a significant-enough installed base that can't upgrade to the latest OS. There's now a lot of older iPhones and iPods Touch out there that will never get 7. Knowing that, developers will become increasingly reluctant to leave those customers behind -- and so will keep building for 6 and earlier, and won't use the new 7-only stuff. This way, devs can immediately go to 7, knowing that customers stuck on older versions will not suddenly be unable to buy or (re)install their apps.
  - mikeash 13y ago
    It's probably significant that the 3GS is not getting iOS 7. The original iPhone was fairly underpowered, and the iPhone 3G changed essentially nothing besides the case and the addition of 3G cellular data. The 3GS was the first real upgrade, the first iPhone with a decent camera, a decent amount of RAM, and a decent CPU. It ended up as the longest-lived iPhone model yet, starting out as the high-end model in 2009, then dropping down to a secondary model in 2010, and it was only discontinued with the release of the iPhone 5 in 2012. It was on the market for almost three years, and while sales no doubt dropped off after a while, it must have sold a ton of units. Prior to this, the only iOS devices that stopped receiving OS upgrades were the original iPhone and the 3G, the roughly corresponding iPod touch models, and the original iPad. The addition of the 3GS to the "no more OS upgrades" category probably vastly increases the set of people with devices that cannot be upgraded. In addition to the numbers, there's also timing. The last new 3GS was sold less than a year ago. To already lose OS updates is a blow to those users. So if I had to guess, a large part of this move is probably the 3GS, due to it suddenly contributing a large number of devices to the pool of those that the latest OS doesn't support, and due to it still being sold until relatively recently.
    - rahoulb 13y ago
erickhill 13y ago
No offense to anyone but I have a serious question: why are we hearing about this from a Mac blog rather than from Apple directly? This is quite an important change and to learn of it by scanning HN et al seems a tad ridiculous.
- iwasakabukiman 13y ago
  Apple will just add new features without press releases all the time.
- melange 13y ago
  The feature is announced via a popup when affected users try to install apps - I.e. They announce it to users for whom it's relevant. That's much better than them mindlessly issuing press releases to the world every time they change a feature that affects a minority of users.
escoz 13y ago
Apple could have told developers about this during WWDC, but didn't. My guess is Apple decided to do this last minute, after they saw the number of iOS7-only apps that developers were submitting.
- jimsilverman 13y ago
  looks like they're fearing slow/low iOS7 adoption, considering how boldly they emphasize how few legacy iOS users are out there.
  - melange 13y ago
    No. It's looks like they are telling developers the state of affairs, so that they don't fear slow adoption.
    - escoz 13y ago
      Agree. Knowing that users of old devices will continue to be able to use your app makes me a lot more excited about releasing for iOS7 only.
- prehkugler 13y ago
  It probably would've been useful to know before iOS7 app submissions were open, but, if that's their reasoning, it's a chicken-egg problem.
jcampbell1 13y ago
The next step is allow us to do maintenance upgrades to legacy versions. In many situations it is easier to maintain a legacy app, with a separate iOS7 code base. Unfortunately there is no way to do this without creating duplicate apps in the store. The alternative is a single code base that is very difficult to reason about the behavior due to tons of feature/version checking.
- gcb0 13y ago
  For that the only solution is what already happens in android. You see lots of apps that have 20 versions for each device/OS version. Just to highlight the problem... i can't download a game on an iphone from [Adult Swim] because it requires a front facing camera! I've been playing the same game on the new ipad with the front facing camera for 2 months. Never found anything that use the camera. go figure.
  - kalleboo 13y ago
    I don't know if things have changed, but we used to add random "requirements" like that to our app when we needed to remove support for hardware that was too old and slow. Our app ran terribly on the original iPhone (largely due to the nature of the app) so we added some requirement that only the iPhone 3G had.
    - gcb0 13y ago
      oh, didn't see that as a 'feature' for the developers... my bad. and i really wasn't expecting something like that.
  - glitchdout 13y ago
    Oh, that's an NSA-only feature, no need to worry about that.
untog 13y ago
Happy to see this being codified - Spotify currently has an old version for <= iOS4 as a separate app, which is fantastic for my old iPod I have lying around. I was concerned that at some point Apple would forbid them from doing this, glad they went in the opposite direction.
- neon_electro 13y ago
  Can you tell us if you were able to successfully download the old version? Just curious if it definitely works for your use case.
oscargrouch 13y ago
year-2024 Banana statement to its customers: "As a sign of the commitment of the Banana Inc. to its customers freedom in a uOS App Store near you, the uOS no longer controls where are you going, and gives you complete permission to go to the grocery store or to play with your kids.. talk badly or curse Banana Inc. is expressely forbiden of course, as usual, and you will receive an instant eletro-shock (from the spy app you can never remove). Therefore you are completely free. only in the next versions of the uOS in a store near you" its in times like these that i miss shows like Monty Python.. Those guys could show with a good dose of intelligent humor, how stupid people behaviour are sometimes..
- oscargrouch 13y ago
  Im very happy my comment its the last one on this particular post.. :) this news to be on the front page of HN like if it was a good thing, its just ludicrous.. if you have a pocket relation with apple thats understandable and forgivable.. but the ones that accept this kind of policies by only one company, because they are attached to the "brand" in somehow? its beyond sanity There are bad implications to us all, if this model make its way into others companies and take over our culture, you could even say bye-bye to your beloved startup culture or the ability to launch the technologies that eventually will make a good thing to us all, and have people using it.. oh, they put money on your pocket? but whats is the real price that everybody else will have to pay for it? you consume it? then its like that thing you like and make you happy, lets say a chocolate.. but or do employ slave labours, or have bad environment implications.. if you have conscious, you will always fell bad to feel good about it..
300bps 13y ago
This is likely an attempt to head off the jailbreaking and app copying that many people resort to after discovering their otherwise fully functioning device is basically a paperweight in that it can't install any apps. Unfortunately from real world tests it doesn't appear to be available for many truly older iOS versions.
- melange 13y ago
  What truly older iOS versions?
  - oleyb 13y ago
    I see it available on 4.2.1 but not 3.1.3.
methodin 13y ago
Do they have the experience with this "fragmentation" to pull this off effectively? What will it do from a developer's perspective?
bengotow 13y ago
I think this will help out consumers overall, but I don't want customers posting negative reviews of my app because the old version they downloaded crashes due to a Facebook or Twitter API change that I patched the app for months ago. Considering that folks post reviews from to-be-released versions of the OS, I assume Apple will let these folks post reviews as well?
kalleboo 13y ago
Does this apply to new purchases as well, or just redownloading something you already bought before?
- kbutler 13y ago
  I expect you'll buy the app [the new version] and this will allow you to download the old version from an older device logged in to your account.
kbutler 13y ago
Is this an acknowledgement by Apple that there will be tens of millions of iOS users who cannot upgrade their devices to iOS7? I'm personally in this camp, with iPhone 3GS and iPad 1. I'm hoping to be able to get an iPad Mini Retina soon, but the older devices remain in use. (The original iPhone doesn't get much use anymore, though...)

86 points by cleverjake 13y ago

dshep 13y ago

Good move Apple!

A good thing for consumers, but I wonder how developers feel about this. If they fix some bug that may have been causing big problems on a server-side component, won't they now have to worry about these older versions being used?

div 13y ago
That's something you've always had to worry about though. You can't force a user to upgrade, so your best bet is to handle those issues server-side.
- jedberg 13y ago
  > You can't force a user to upgrade Sure you can. Netflix will sometimes have to do this. The old software just isn't allowed to talk to the server anymore.
  - iwasakabukiman 13y ago
    Which would be handling thins server side.
    - ianstallings 13y ago
      You can do this app-side by checking the version versus what's in the app store via itunes webservice. For example: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2221436/can-i-force-an-iphone-user-to-upgrade-an-application http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2221436/can-i-force-an-ip... I don't recommend that unless you have a mission critical bug, and even then I'd discourage it. A user is in charge of his/her device. I version APIs on the backend and then simply push out updates like any other software. If they choose not to use it then not much I can do. Eventually I'll turn the older API versions off and they'll either have to upgrade or stop using the app.
escoz 13y ago
If there was a bug in the old version that is not compatible with the latest, there was no way to fix it anyway. This change doesn't solve that issue, but it solves 99% of the cases I deal with, which is old users complaining they can't get the app they bought after a release drops an old iOS version.

div 13y ago

This is great for customers. I wonder if and how having that popup appear will affect people upgrading to the latest and greatest.

AlisdairSH 13y ago
Presumably, you'd only see the pop-up if you're running a non-current version of iOS (and need the previous version of the app)?
- div 13y ago
  Correct, what I'm wondering about is how this popup will drive people to realize that "hey, I can upgrade to a new version of iOS". iOS already has a pretty fast adoption rate for new versions, I wonder if this will make it even better.

jaysonelliot 13y ago

It's a wonderful half-measure, but also serves to highlight a problem with cloud-based installs that I'm not optimistic will ever go away. When software was distributed physically, the consumer always had the freedom to use any version of an application they liked. Want to run a lightweight version of Word because you don't need all the latest features, or maybe you just hate the new UI? No problem. Did you like some video game better before they "improved" it? Just get the old disk out and play it. Some people will argue that software developers should be able to require that their customers always have the latest versions of their product. I personally believe that decision should be in the hands of the user. I'd love to see Apple allow side-loading for consumers, at the very least. The best solution, in my opinion, would be to also allow users to access some kind of "advanced" menu that would let them choose whichever older version of an app they choose.

arn 13y ago
This is actually an advantage of cloud distribution. What if you want to run an older version of Word but haven't bought it yet? It can be a pain to find an old copy to buy. Whereas Apple has all the old versions on their servers and can deliver the exact one that will run on your system.
- pdpi 13y ago
  Provided Apple (or whatever other provider) actually distributes the old versions. Somehow, that never seems to be the case.
  - iwasakabukiman 13y ago
    What do you mean? The whole purpose of this new feature is that Apple is giving users older versions when they need them...
    - pdpi 13y ago
      Which is novel enough to be a news article.

donretag 13y ago

I wonder if this applies to the Mac App Store, but I doubt it. I want to purchase Logic for an older Macbook, but the OS doesn't support Logic X. Apple won't sell a compatible version and there is no shrink-wrapped version.

jasomill 13y ago
Sure there is; while Apple no longer produces it or sells it directly, it's still in the channel, e.g., from Amazon[1]. [1] http://www.amazon.com/Apple-Logic-Studio-Old-Version/dp/B002ISDD1K http://www.amazon.com/Apple-Logic-Studio-Old-Version/dp/B002...

hcarvalhoalves 13y ago

This is basically Apple themselves showing they don't trust everybody will like iOS7.

bonaldi 13y ago
It's less that and more that there is now a significant-enough installed base that can't upgrade to the latest OS. There's now a lot of older iPhones and iPods Touch out there that will never get 7. Knowing that, developers will become increasingly reluctant to leave those customers behind -- and so will keep building for 6 and earlier, and won't use the new 7-only stuff. This way, devs can immediately go to 7, knowing that customers stuck on older versions will not suddenly be unable to buy or (re)install their apps.
- mikeash 13y ago
  It's probably significant that the 3GS is not getting iOS 7. The original iPhone was fairly underpowered, and the iPhone 3G changed essentially nothing besides the case and the addition of 3G cellular data. The 3GS was the first real upgrade, the first iPhone with a decent camera, a decent amount of RAM, and a decent CPU. It ended up as the longest-lived iPhone model yet, starting out as the high-end model in 2009, then dropping down to a secondary model in 2010, and it was only discontinued with the release of the iPhone 5 in 2012. It was on the market for almost three years, and while sales no doubt dropped off after a while, it must have sold a ton of units. Prior to this, the only iOS devices that stopped receiving OS upgrades were the original iPhone and the 3G, the roughly corresponding iPod touch models, and the original iPad. The addition of the 3GS to the "no more OS upgrades" category probably vastly increases the set of people with devices that cannot be upgraded. In addition to the numbers, there's also timing. The last new 3GS was sold less than a year ago. To already lose OS updates is a blow to those users. So if I had to guess, a large part of this move is probably the 3GS, due to it suddenly contributing a large number of devices to the pool of those that the latest OS doesn't support, and due to it still being sold until relatively recently.
  - rahoulb 13y ago

erickhill 13y ago

No offense to anyone but I have a serious question: why are we hearing about this from a Mac blog rather than from Apple directly? This is quite an important change and to learn of it by scanning HN et al seems a tad ridiculous.

iwasakabukiman 13y ago
Apple will just add new features without press releases all the time.
melange 13y ago
The feature is announced via a popup when affected users try to install apps - I.e. They announce it to users for whom it's relevant. That's much better than them mindlessly issuing press releases to the world every time they change a feature that affects a minority of users.

escoz 13y ago

Apple could have told developers about this during WWDC, but didn't. My guess is Apple decided to do this last minute, after they saw the number of iOS7-only apps that developers were submitting.

jimsilverman 13y ago
looks like they're fearing slow/low iOS7 adoption, considering how boldly they emphasize how few legacy iOS users are out there.
- melange 13y ago
  No. It's looks like they are telling developers the state of affairs, so that they don't fear slow adoption.
  - escoz 13y ago
    Agree. Knowing that users of old devices will continue to be able to use your app makes me a lot more excited about releasing for iOS7 only.
prehkugler 13y ago
It probably would've been useful to know before iOS7 app submissions were open, but, if that's their reasoning, it's a chicken-egg problem.

jcampbell1 13y ago

The next step is allow us to do maintenance upgrades to legacy versions. In many situations it is easier to maintain a legacy app, with a separate iOS7 code base. Unfortunately there is no way to do this without creating duplicate apps in the store. The alternative is a single code base that is very difficult to reason about the behavior due to tons of feature/version checking.

gcb0 13y ago
For that the only solution is what already happens in android. You see lots of apps that have 20 versions for each device/OS version. Just to highlight the problem... i can't download a game on an iphone from [Adult Swim] because it requires a front facing camera! I've been playing the same game on the new ipad with the front facing camera for 2 months. Never found anything that use the camera. go figure.
- kalleboo 13y ago
  I don't know if things have changed, but we used to add random "requirements" like that to our app when we needed to remove support for hardware that was too old and slow. Our app ran terribly on the original iPhone (largely due to the nature of the app) so we added some requirement that only the iPhone 3G had.
  - gcb0 13y ago
    oh, didn't see that as a 'feature' for the developers... my bad. and i really wasn't expecting something like that.
- glitchdout 13y ago
  Oh, that's an NSA-only feature, no need to worry about that.

untog 13y ago

Happy to see this being codified - Spotify currently has an old version for <= iOS4 as a separate app, which is fantastic for my old iPod I have lying around. I was concerned that at some point Apple would forbid them from doing this, glad they went in the opposite direction.

neon_electro 13y ago
Can you tell us if you were able to successfully download the old version? Just curious if it definitely works for your use case.

oscargrouch 13y ago

year-2024 Banana statement to its customers: "As a sign of the commitment of the Banana Inc. to its customers freedom in a uOS App Store near you, the uOS no longer controls where are you going, and gives you complete permission to go to the grocery store or to play with your kids.. talk badly or curse Banana Inc. is expressely forbiden of course, as usual, and you will receive an instant eletro-shock (from the spy app you can never remove). Therefore you are completely free. only in the next versions of the uOS in a store near you" its in times like these that i miss shows like Monty Python.. Those guys could show with a good dose of intelligent humor, how stupid people behaviour are sometimes..

oscargrouch 13y ago
Im very happy my comment its the last one on this particular post.. :) this news to be on the front page of HN like if it was a good thing, its just ludicrous.. if you have a pocket relation with apple thats understandable and forgivable.. but the ones that accept this kind of policies by only one company, because they are attached to the "brand" in somehow? its beyond sanity There are bad implications to us all, if this model make its way into others companies and take over our culture, you could even say bye-bye to your beloved startup culture or the ability to launch the technologies that eventually will make a good thing to us all, and have people using it.. oh, they put money on your pocket? but whats is the real price that everybody else will have to pay for it? you consume it? then its like that thing you like and make you happy, lets say a chocolate.. but or do employ slave labours, or have bad environment implications.. if you have conscious, you will always fell bad to feel good about it..

300bps 13y ago

This is likely an attempt to head off the jailbreaking and app copying that many people resort to after discovering their otherwise fully functioning device is basically a paperweight in that it can't install any apps. Unfortunately from real world tests it doesn't appear to be available for many truly older iOS versions.

melange 13y ago
What truly older iOS versions?
- oleyb 13y ago
  I see it available on 4.2.1 but not 3.1.3.

methodin 13y ago

Do they have the experience with this "fragmentation" to pull this off effectively? What will it do from a developer's perspective?

bengotow 13y ago

I think this will help out consumers overall, but I don't want customers posting negative reviews of my app because the old version they downloaded crashes due to a Facebook or Twitter API change that I patched the app for months ago. Considering that folks post reviews from to-be-released versions of the OS, I assume Apple will let these folks post reviews as well?

kalleboo 13y ago

Does this apply to new purchases as well, or just redownloading something you already bought before?

kbutler 13y ago
I expect you'll buy the app [the new version] and this will allow you to download the old version from an older device logged in to your account.

kbutler 13y ago

Is this an acknowledgement by Apple that there will be tens of millions of iOS users who cannot upgrade their devices to iOS7? I'm personally in this camp, with iPhone 3GS and iPad 1. I'm hoping to be able to get an iPad Mini Retina soon, but the older devices remain in use. (The original iPhone doesn't get much use anymore, though...)