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Here is the question you need to ask yourself...is your community going to be buying your cars? Seems to me, like the current community is made up of artistic t

by vaksel 17y ago

Here is the question you need to ask yourself...is your community going to be buying your cars? Seems to me, like the current community is made up of artistic types who'd rather buy a Prius(which probably explains the engine choice). You need to go promote the thing on offroader sites to see the true market conditions, or you'll end up building a car noone wants. You can experience those same jumps in a lifted Bronco. And if you screw up and roll the thing, you won't be out 50K. Yes there are people who have 50K invested in their rigs. But that didn't happen overnight, it happened year to year, a few grand at a time. And very few of those high end rigs get taken offroad + when its time to sell, the people get bent over the table, since you won't find many people willing to spend that much money on a weekend toy. Going to the site now, would be pretty pointless since its just pictures. No guarantee that the thing will even be built. Knowing that it takes close to 2000 hours to assemble a kit car, I don't think we'll be seeing a finished product for a couple of years.

jrogers 17y ago
True that the site is a large proportion of design enthusiasts right now, but since that is who normally designs cars, are we any worse off than a normal car company. If you were to jump a Bronco, it would be nothing like the Rally Fighter and we have plenty of Bronco Jumpers in our team to prove it. Short wheel base short travel, Bronco's make for a spine pounding ride over 35miles per hour on a baja desert. As for the site having more than pictures, I recommend clicking the build tab. The Rally fighter will be debuted at SEMA (Nov 09). Many kit cars take 200 hrs to build...Lone Star (7 days), Factory Five same, etc. You must be good to make this time, but 2000 hours is excessive (though possible for certain people on certain builds). The whole point is that we started Local Motors to addres those scary long build times. Come aboard and give it a little try before you declare so unilaterally that it will never work. Are you so desperate for it to fail? We are pretty good at listening to our faults and appreciate all of your criticism. Hope to see you on the site. (www.local-motors.com)
- deleted 17y ago
 [deleted]
- vaksel 17y ago
 Yes design enthusiasts are the ones who design cars...but I doubt at GM/Honda/BMW that they are the ones making the engine choice. Nothing wrong with having a diesel option, but you are forcing your customers to pay a premium, for something they don't need. I mean if you are going to use a BMW engine, why not use the one from 335i? If you look at BMWs: 335i sedan 300hp for $40K, 335d sedan 265hp for $45K. So that's a ~$5K premium for the diesel option. I dunno about you, but pretty much every car enthusiast I know, would rather pay $5K less, and get 35 more hp. And lets not forget the fact that the 335i engine has a crapload of aftermarket support, while the 335d has none. I'm not an offroader, so I dunno about jumping etc. But thats sorta the point, desert racers are almost non-existent, there are so very few of them out there, and only a tiny percentage of those can afford to pay $50K for a toy. You pretty much slashed your possible market to a few hundred rich guys who are into offroading. The pictures I was talking about the other designs. I'm not saying the whole idea is a failure, I'm saying that the starting vehicle choice is. Your motto is "Build the car of your dreams", but then you turn around and select a vehicle that only a tiny minority would want.
 - jrogers 17y ago
 Cool, now we are talking. Couple of thoughts. 1 - we are using the 335i engine. And it is one of 3 engine systems we have fitted for the rally fighter. So I agree. 2 - Our entire business is a revolutionary auto business model, so we are structured to do niche production and make that our winning strategy. Each micro-factory serves only a regional area. 2000cars max production. Kinda like IKEA or Cabella's for cars. So call it a minority and you would be right. As for desert racing. It is a big deal in the American Southwest, so we believe it will be successful. The whole point is that since people like you (and me) don't off-road race and don't really know about it, that big companies like Honda, Chevy, and BMW will never make a car that works for this minority since the market isn't big enough to support their massive tooling costs...voila a market opportunity is created for a startup company. Since the Rally Fighter is on and off road legal and seats 2 adults in front and 2 in back (or 3 car seats), it is not my definition of a toy. But I certainly want people to think of it as the most fun car and experience that they have ever bought. I love your thoughts, and I so wish you were making these critiques on our forum so our community could hear your thoughts. We are about to launch a general forum and perhaps we can entice you to post there. We will soon be choosing our next LM model to make with the help of our community, and we would love to have you involved in that choice. Thought you might want to checkout this post last night by Jeff Jarvis on his BuzzMachine Blog. The comment stream there shows the breadth of opinion. http://bit.ly/9CRkv http://bit.ly/9CRkv

by vaksel 17y ago

jrogers 17y ago

True that the site is a large proportion of design enthusiasts right now, but since that is who normally designs cars, are we any worse off than a normal car company. If you were to jump a Bronco, it would be nothing like the Rally Fighter and we have plenty of Bronco Jumpers in our team to prove it. Short wheel base short travel, Bronco's make for a spine pounding ride over 35miles per hour on a baja desert. As for the site having more than pictures, I recommend clicking the build tab. The Rally fighter will be debuted at SEMA (Nov 09). Many kit cars take 200 hrs to build...Lone Star (7 days), Factory Five same, etc. You must be good to make this time, but 2000 hours is excessive (though possible for certain people on certain builds). The whole point is that we started Local Motors to addres those scary long build times. Come aboard and give it a little try before you declare so unilaterally that it will never work. Are you so desperate for it to fail? We are pretty good at listening to our faults and appreciate all of your criticism. Hope to see you on the site. (www.local-motors.com)

deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
vaksel 17y ago
Yes design enthusiasts are the ones who design cars...but I doubt at GM/Honda/BMW that they are the ones making the engine choice. Nothing wrong with having a diesel option, but you are forcing your customers to pay a premium, for something they don't need. I mean if you are going to use a BMW engine, why not use the one from 335i? If you look at BMWs: 335i sedan 300hp for $40K, 335d sedan 265hp for $45K. So that's a ~$5K premium for the diesel option. I dunno about you, but pretty much every car enthusiast I know, would rather pay $5K less, and get 35 more hp. And lets not forget the fact that the 335i engine has a crapload of aftermarket support, while the 335d has none. I'm not an offroader, so I dunno about jumping etc. But thats sorta the point, desert racers are almost non-existent, there are so very few of them out there, and only a tiny percentage of those can afford to pay $50K for a toy. You pretty much slashed your possible market to a few hundred rich guys who are into offroading. The pictures I was talking about the other designs. I'm not saying the whole idea is a failure, I'm saying that the starting vehicle choice is. Your motto is "Build the car of your dreams", but then you turn around and select a vehicle that only a tiny minority would want.
- jrogers 17y ago
  Cool, now we are talking. Couple of thoughts. 1 - we are using the 335i engine. And it is one of 3 engine systems we have fitted for the rally fighter. So I agree. 2 - Our entire business is a revolutionary auto business model, so we are structured to do niche production and make that our winning strategy. Each micro-factory serves only a regional area. 2000cars max production. Kinda like IKEA or Cabella's for cars. So call it a minority and you would be right. As for desert racing. It is a big deal in the American Southwest, so we believe it will be successful. The whole point is that since people like you (and me) don't off-road race and don't really know about it, that big companies like Honda, Chevy, and BMW will never make a car that works for this minority since the market isn't big enough to support their massive tooling costs...voila a market opportunity is created for a startup company. Since the Rally Fighter is on and off road legal and seats 2 adults in front and 2 in back (or 3 car seats), it is not my definition of a toy. But I certainly want people to think of it as the most fun car and experience that they have ever bought. I love your thoughts, and I so wish you were making these critiques on our forum so our community could hear your thoughts. We are about to launch a general forum and perhaps we can entice you to post there. We will soon be choosing our next LM model to make with the help of our community, and we would love to have you involved in that choice. Thought you might want to checkout this post last night by Jeff Jarvis on his BuzzMachine Blog. The comment stream there shows the breadth of opinion. http://bit.ly/9CRkv http://bit.ly/9CRkv