59 ms·

How I thought I wanted to become a digital nomad

• hawkharris 13y ago
  Alex, you're a very skilled storyteller. I enjoyed reading the post. I have one small piece of constructive feedback: your use of commas was a little confusing at times, and it slowed down my reading. Commas can be tricky, and I sometimes struggle with them as well. Here's a quick guide that I find useful: http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/commas.asp http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/commas.asp
  • alexp 13y ago
    Thanks :) I'll improve. Best, Alex
  • pjbrunet 13y ago
    You didn't need a comma here: "at times and it slowed" Or here: "can be tricky and I sometimes struggle" Granted, you might want a dramatic pause or the comma might break up parts that could be misconstrued as together. Chiding Alex with superfluous commas? Generally speaking I recommend dropping commas where you can. Like you said, they're speed bumps.
    • hawkharris 13y ago
      You should use commas to separate complete sentences. That's what I did in both cases. There's no need for either of us to be snarky. I told Alex that I enjoyed his writing and respectfully offered feedback.
      • pjbrunet 13y ago
        "I have one small piece of constructive feedback: your use of commas was a little confusing at times, and it slowed down my reading. Commas can be tricky, and I sometimes struggle with them as well." I'm not saying you're wrong. Yes the sentences are complete but how self-sufficient are they? It's a sliding scale from no comma to comma to period. Some of these rules are not hard and fast. The art of writing is slowly evolving and to a degree it's a matter of taste. Some people love hyphens. In this case there's a strong enough correlation, conceptual link between the sentences such that the reader doesn't need a comma to read what you're saying in one breath. If it sounds good in one breath, that's a strong signal you don't need a comma. Knowing the basic rules is just the beginning. I'm dead serious.
• motters 13y ago
  "Even though it might be obvious, during my travels I found out the hard way that creative, meaningful work, requires some routine. Changing your location once a week, working from benches, hammocks, cafes, bars and hostel floors is a cool way to fund your vacation, but it certainly doesn’t help you when tackling hard programming problems." And this is what I've also found. In order to be able to do anything of any significance you need to make the rest of your life as routine as possible in order to minimise distractions. Continually moving around requires you to do a lot of extraneous work merely to reproduce your labour.
  • blueatlas 13y ago
    This is absolutely true, and I believe why many companies that understand this are averse to remote working. Yes, commute time is a waste, but getting into an environment and mindset to do serious work requires you to get into your "routine groove".
    • ronaldx 13y ago
      There's a whole layer of difficulty between remote working-from-home and remote working-while-travelling. A good office provides a suitable environment for almost anyone to work in. This will cover a lot of seemingly minor stuff - a desk, an ergonomic setup, sufficient clean bathrooms, a coffee machine, a place dedicated just to work, a dedicated telephone line, comfortable temperature/atmosphere, a motivational working culture, etc. If you're working-from-home you need to set all that up yourself and do it properly. It will take some time to set this up and get it right, but you just need to do it once. You might end up with a situation that's better for you and benefits everybody - but if you don't do a thorough job or if you can't motivate yourself to work then you're simply not going to be as productive as you would be in an office. (Worth it? It depends) If you're working-while-travelling - this is now a whole different level of difficulty - you need to set this up in every place that you stop. A fancy hotel normally has most of this covered for you, but a mate's floor probably has none. To manage working-while-travelling, you need to learn exactly what is important to your work environment and how to find it - so that you can set it up each time that you move. (Worth it? It depends but it's hard)
• RyanZAG 13y ago
  Far as I can tell, the argument here boils down to "can't concentrate on coding while traveling". When put in a simple statement like that it becomes very obvious that the statement depends entirely on the person. Many people have little difficulty opening up their laptop and forgetting the rest of the world for an 8 hour stretch, and this would be the type of person who would do well as a digital nomad. If you need peace and stability in order to code - and many, many people do - then it's a bad choice. I've also found you need to be very comfortable with email and text communications, and you probably need to be good at getting your point across and discerning the point of others as it's more difficult to communicate technical issues without being in person - but obviously very possible, as the number of very good technical blogs can attest to.
  • graeme 13y ago
    One issue is that it can be hard to get an 8 hour stretch if your days are also filled with the minutiae of travel of decision-making. I find it very hard to get substantial work done on certain projects when I have even a few interruptions in my day.
    • coldtea 13y ago
      >One issue is that it can be hard to get an 8 hour stretch if your days are also filled with the minutiae of travel of decision-making. You settle down somewhere, even for 10 days or a week. After the first day there's no more minutiae of trabel or devicion making. Work 8 hours in your hotel/hostel/place/, go around/sleep the rest. You're not supposed to travel EVERY day to a new place.
  • seiji 13y ago
    How do you do an eight hour stretch? At best I can work for two hours without needing food or a bathroom break. Imagine you're working in public space. To take a break you have to pack up your laptop, power adapter, water bottle, phone, headphones, go put them in a locker (or just carry them), visit a wc, eat, take a break, go get bag out of locker, find another place to sit with power, set up computer, power adapter, etc. It's a lot different than just walking away from your desk at home for 5 minutes to relieve yourself, grabbing a banana, then getting back to work.
• kristiandupont 13y ago
  Having been semi-location independent for 4 years now, I have come to a similar conclusion. The theory of decision fatigue -- that you get exhausted by making a certain number of decisions -- seems to be true to me. And the thing is that when you are in a new place, there is a large number of decisions to make about petty things like where is the nearest supermarket, where can I work out, how do I get proper internet etc. Whenever I've set up in a new place, my productivity suffers severely for a week or two. After that, I'm okay but if you travel a lot, that becomes a real price. And it's not rewarding the same way that other guilty pleasures are, it's just annoying. I remember walking to the "office" in Bangkok one day, having been there for three weeks. I pulled out my iPod for the first time since I arrived. It struck me that this was a sign that I was familiar with my surroundings. I didn't need the full mental capacity just to navigate, I could run that process in the background and allow myself to listen to music. I am not sure what you can conclude from this but I think that it's likely that I had consumed a lot of energy up until that point, which I then didn't have for programming.
  • Vivtek 13y ago
    Oh man, yeah, decision fatigue. I've been a freelancer (web work and later technical translation) since 1996 and we've moved, kids and dog and all, from Indiana to Puerto Rico to Budapest, at will - and the one thing that makes it difficult is that you're always asking, "Should we be staying here or going somewhere else now?" It never stops. The kids are having allergy problems? Let's move to the Caribbean! The Caribbean is too relaxed and the schools suck? Let's move to Europe! Europe has horrible winters? Back to the Caribbean! It gets old. And expensive. And the business takes a major hit every time we move just because of the distractions - and it's a continual stress when we don't move, a stress that normal people don't even think of having.
    • kokey 13y ago
      I can also relate, we should start a Moving Around Anonymous. I find that we don't always consider all the costs before choosing to hop off to the next location, cost in time and energy, but also financially. That said, it doesn't feel like we can settle.
• SyneRyder 13y ago
  "Stay in one place for a while" is fantastic advice. One week is barely enough time to get settled - every time you move you need to find stores, amenities, cafes etc. Two weeks is much better (and you'll appreciate the place more), but even longer is better if you really want to get work done. A nice room is great advice too - makes a huge difference to your happiness if you can wake up each morning to an amazing view & sunshine in a good location, compared to a small cramped hotel room in a sketchy area. Obviously you have to go with what you can afford, but a cheap AirBnB can be dramatically better than a hotel sometimes. The downside of getting a 'real job with an office' is that you might not be able to negotiate that 2 months annual vacation, or to get the vacation at times that suit you. You'll have to prioritize what you really want.
  • personlurking 13y ago
    Even staying in one place for 2-3 months means having to continuously find those stores, amenities, etc. Sure, it's more stable to stay a few months but having to constantly settle in new places is tiring...I can't imagine having to do it every week or two!
    • _delirium 13y ago
      I wouldn't do it every week or two, but every few months is doable if you travel slowly, since you can reuse a lot of your knowledge in other cities. Once I got reasonably comfortable with Copenhagen, for example, getting comfortable with Malmö or Helsingør was a quick incremental adjustment, since many things are similar.
      • personlurking 13y ago
        True, though I find the smaller the cities are, or rather the more they're similar in smaller size and population, the smoother the transition. As far as Brazil, I've lived in more neighborhoods and more cities than most Brazilians and the toughest experience was adjusting to São Paulo's 12 million people and spread out geography. Cities of large sizes and big populations also create other problems such as with locomotion, quality of public transport, number of modes of transport needed to get to various points, etc. In essense, it came to preferring to live in a crappy, cramped yet centralized place vs a larger, more comfortable 'far away' place (from the city center). In São Paulo, often the time I would spend in transit would be double the time I would actually spend with a friend (versus smaller coastal cities where I could reach my friends in 10-15 minutes tops).
• config_yml 13y ago
  "And to be completely honest, it’s just not enough. I believe that working with a team of people that are more experienced and smarter than yourself is crucial for your development, and as a freelancer, doing minor gigs involving some MVC/CRUD application programming, you just miss out on a world of possibilities to grow and learn." I've experienced this as well, it was my main grief with working by myself and on the road and ultimately led me to join a company again part time. Sadly the team I joined isn't really what I expected from a team, so I'm already on the lookout again :(
  • kalleboo 13y ago
    Working on a team doesn't have to be incompatible with working while traveling. I work on a global team on a single product and get challenged by my workmates all the time. We meet once a year at WWDC.
    • vpdn 13y ago
      Wish more companies are like that. Scott Berkun maintains a list of companies with distributed teams, if anyone looks for a new job :-) http://scottberkun.com/2013/how-many-companies-are-100-distributed/ http://scottberkun.com/2013/how-many-companies-are-100-distr...
• personlurking 13y ago
  Being and having been a digital nomad for the past several years, it can become tiring having to switch up location and work setting so often. While living in Rio de Janeiro, I often wondered how people who are from there work in office buildings in the wealthy neighborhoods (which are a stone's throw from the beach), deal with knowing that fun and sun is literally 5 minutes away at any given moment, that people are always on the beach enjoying themselves while you have to be stuck up in your office with a possible view of the sea. In any event, I wasn't one of these people as I could take a break when I wished and hit up the beach, etc. It was great...until the project that kept me financially stable went under. Instead of looking for more work, I sacrificed the need to work more for the free time (and ability) to very cheaply or freely enjoy myself in my surroundings, eventually tiring of demanding little of myself after a few months (you can only be young-ish and 'hang' for so long). It's great living in a beautiful place, but even better when that place is very affordable (or, in the least, when you've found a way to make it affordable...almost an art in itself). In the Bay, I almost never went out because everything cost money and therefore my friends only did things that cost money. Being poor in US standards was social suicide. In Brazil, I was going out 4-5x per week! My average night out in Rio I'd spend about US$5, maybe $10 (drinks included, try doing that in SF!). Plus, there just so much to do for free, from hiking to beaches, to free concerts and art exhibitions...you name it. Things that other young people are also doing, mind you. In developing nations, or even economically strained ones (I'm in Portugal now), where most people are on a budget, I find the amount of fun and interesting things to do, for free or cheap, increase. Not only do the events and activities increase, but the number of people doing them increase, too. Being a digital nomad, with at least one stable project, in places like these is where the 'good life' is. But when that stable project goes bye-bye, the sense of the good life goes with it, no matter where you are. _____ As an aside, having just read the article, I saw that it's a minimalist blog (post) on github.io, which I'm not familiar with. From their landing page, I don't see any offer for blogging. On Wordpress, I couldn't find any theme like this but on HN I come across these types of entries somewhat often, though this is the first I've seen from github.io. Anyone know how I can get a free one like this, where there's just a white page and words, via any blogging service?
  • digitalboss 13y ago
• karterk 13y ago
  1) get a remote-friendly job that fits your skill set and ambitions. Move every quarter or so. Stay in one place for a while. That's kind of the best of both worlds. It's actually pretty tiring travelling AND working at the same time. You will have a large amount of context shifts which will destroy your productivity. I also wish remote work is more common. While it usually works when you know a company really well (e.g. small company with known, trusted colleagues), not many companies are actively trying to make remote work possible.
• deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
• stevenwei 13y ago
  I think the 'digital nomad' lifestyle is an interesting one and definitely worth experimenting with (especially for folks in our industry who truly can work from anywhere in the world), but it is hard to sustain over time. If you're trying to get stuff done though, I think a good strategy is to pick a place and stay there for a few months, rather than being 'on the road' and traveling around from place to place. You can still be 'location independent' by renting an apartment for 3 months in a foreign country (like the Costa Rica example that was on HN a few weeks ago). But at least then you'll have more of a sense of routine, waking up in the same place every day, and because you have a full 3 months to explore the place, you won't feel as obligated to rush out and see the sights all the time. It also really helps to be able to set yourself up in an office with an ergonomic chair, external monitors, and proper mouse/keyboard. That might be a bit more difficult to do if you're in a foreign country, but you can definitely buy used and sell again when you leave.
• johncampbelljr 13y ago
  I hope to try the digital nomad route in a few years but I have a different take on it. I'm not looking to sustain a working vacation--I'm interesting in experiencing day-to-day lifestyle in different cultures/suroundings. I'm thinking of staying around in terms of months or years, not weeks. Also, I probably will only try it if I have my own enterprise I can run on the road. I'm currently working as a freelancer but wouldn't think about hitting the road until I have more direct control on projects. And while I get my ducks I a row I would love for someone to do an airbnb for digital nomads. If it would be easy to find a place to work and place to live I'm sure I'd me more likely to try it. And I wish some countries would see the revenue opportunity of this! (I'm looking at you Spain, Italy and Greece.)
  • podviaznikov 13y ago
    what is airbnb for digiral nomads? Can you describe in more details what you need?
    • personlurking 13y ago
      I'm guessing here but I assume he means a site for places to live and work or perhaps a preset agreement where both kinds of places are rentable at the same time, in a package sort of deal. In terms of co-working spaces, they're often way more than I'd want to spend for a simple internet connection and a place to sit.
  • danielharan 13y ago
    "airbnb for digital nomads" This. While staying in Krabi last year, I wanted to go back during the cheaper off-season, when the SCUBA diving is less awesome than normal. Beaches and climbing are still spectacular though. It made me dream of having a listing of such places that are guaranteed to have a great internet connection, chair, desk and secondary monitor.
• cmeranda 13y ago
  Programming (for me) occurs at the apex of an extended Maslow's type hierarchy, and traveling often destroys the very foundations of it. The code I write when sleep-deprived, hungover, hungry, sunburnt, and sitting on a bumpy Thai train wondering if I missed my stop and wishing there was internet & coffee, is strongly inferior to what I write in a well-lit, quiet environment, fed, rested, fueled by engineering conversation and mental/real bandwidth, etc. That's not a proscription of adventure so much as an acknowledgement that the whole nature of adventure is disruptive: multiple variables in your equation are changing at rapid rates, and they are important variables: food, shelter, language, currency. Over our two-year stint in Asia, we usually found ourselves in one of two situations: 1) blissfully immersed in the culture and outdoor activities of <x> country but contending with unreliable internet, limited work time and near-nonexistent attention spans, or 2) sitting on a nice nondescript hotel bed somewhere with A/C, good wifi and our tiny MacBook Air screens, and feeling like we may as well have not left the US at all.
  • kalleboo 13y ago
    > Programming (for me) occurs at the apex of an extended Maslow's type hierarchy, and traveling often destroys the very foundations of it For me, it varies with my mood. A lot of the time having some stress and interesting surroundings spurs my creativity and I've written some of my best code in a park, on an airplane or at a café. Other times I just want to lock myself in a familiar room with all my comforts and shut out the world. That's why when I do the travel-and-work thing, I stay for 2-3 mo in a place, and I can mix things up depending on how I feel that week. I've also decided for myself that it's never a failure of travel to not be in local's dining room every night living the "real experience". I'm not on vacation, I'm still working, so I'll never see #2 as an issue.
    • cmeranda 13y ago
      It is interesting that sometimes being in a new environment can promote creativity and even discipline (for instance, it's easier for me to work continuously on a plane--which I'm doing right now--than when I'm in our home office because I perceive I have less choice: not sure what that says about me). And I agree that if I'm doing performance testing or adding a mellow feature, then sure, throw me in the middle of Cirque du Soleil and I'll be fine. But I would challenge the idea that complex programming problems (cloud sync, NLP, etc, choose your poison) can be solved equally well in a suboptimal environment. Here is my "hypothesis": unregulated noise[1], temperature[2], and other travel-centric environmental factors (such as the need for vigilance in a new environment) distract from cognitive performance in the majority of people, if not all people. [1] http://peterhancock.ucf.edu/Downloads/ref_pubs/Szalma_Hancock_2011_Noise.pdf http://peterhancock.ucf.edu/Downloads/ref_pubs/Szalma_Hancoc... [2] http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1600-0668.2004.00305.x/abstract?deniedAccessCustomisedMessage=&userIsAuthenticated=false http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1600-0668.2004.... To be clear, I don't think it is possible to write my best code in a park, an airplane or a café, regardless of mood. But I would be curious to see relevant studies which demonstrate otherwise. I agree that changes in environment are stimulating and that stagnant workplaces hold their own dangers. I also agree that 2-3 months is a good baseline for getting to know a place: you don't feel as jostled about by your schedule, and there may even be time for cursory grasp of the language (w/some prepping beforehand) and making a friend or two. Plus you don't have to cram your (potentially expensive) excursions into as short a block of time.
• VLM 13y ago
  My father did something like this in his later years and I never heard any of the complaints in the article; then again he had an RV instead of a 44 liter backpack and mostly stayed in the USA rather than crossing the world. Connectivity was the main problem I heard about. I guess its much better now. Also its not a binary decision. Its a big planet and you can select whatever tradeoff you'd prefer in a nearly pure analog fashion, its not exclusively binary "Poland OR Vietnam". For example there must be tens of thousands of places to park a RV in the USA that are similar enough not to be strange but different enough to be an adventure on time off. Some people set the thermostat to 72F and leave it alone 24x365 (that's me!). Some people alternate setting the thermostat to 85F and 60F every couple hours and complain constantly of freezing or burning up (I work with people like that, it is such a pain to be around). That doesn't mean a third option doesn't exist of setting the thermostat to 67F, or 77F, or randomly varying from 70F to 74F from week to week, etc.
  • keithpeter 13y ago
    "Some people set the thermostat to 72F and leave it alone 24x365. Some people alternate setting the thermostat to 85F and 60F every couple hours and complain constantly of freezing or burning up..." In some countries, you just put a jumper on or wear cooler clothes. Personally, I like to be near the weather. It is all tradeoffs.
  • timmaah 13y ago
    Was your father working at the time? My wife and I live, work and travel from a 25' Airstream and can definitely relate to a lot of the point the post has made as well as the "decision fatigue" mentioned in other comments. It is tough to keep focus for 8 hours when your scenery is changing from week to week and there are so many new awesome places to explore. That said.. We are currently loving it with no plans to stop or slow today. Todays adventure is mountain biking in Bend Oregon. Decision fatigue comes in with route planning, trying to figure out if that cool forest road everyone talks about will have cell service, where to fill up with water, where to dump the tanks... all of which are near constant. We could slow it down a bit and stay in an RV park a month or so, but we enjoy moving and don't enjoy the atmosphere of most private RV parks.
• StavrosK 13y ago
  As a data point, I went to Barcelona for a month (because remote work) and stayed in a flat with roommates etc, the full citizen thing. I loved it, I worked at home during the day and went out/made friends/saw the sights in the evenings and weekends. It's only one place, as I just roam around Greece usually, but it was a very positive experience. The hardest part was meeting new people in the beginning, but meetups quickly changed that and I had a blast. I would definitely recommend going to a new city for a month or two (a month is a bit inconvenient, you have to go right when you're making new friends and enjoying yourself).
• deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
• pieterhg 13y ago
  I have been practicing this lifestyle since April when I moved from Amsterdam to Bangkok & Chiang Mai. While I recognize some parts of the article, I think the general tone is off. Constantly traveling and working won't work for most. But settling in one place for at least 6 months, finding a good office or co-working space with fast internet, and getting into a routine (like the article states) CAN actually work for many people. It does for me. Also since you're in a new place, you also have plenty of opportunity to do weekend travels to other countries, as well as local leisure activities. In case of Thailand, that means you can be on the beach in 2 hours from anywhere, or if you're not into that, enjoy the wild nature. And life is cheaper in many of these places. Not for everybody, but definitely do-able.
• cottonseed 13y ago
  The author needs to learn how to properly use the comma.
  • cpursley 13y ago
    Maybe you can message the author with some edit suggestions instead of call him out.
  • sanderjd 13y ago
    I don't really like grammar comments, but in case the author is reading -- the comma really did throw off my reading of the title.
    • charleshaanel 13y ago
      I couldn't concur more. It's one thing if someone is tactfully offering a suggestion that would help improve the comprehension of someone's work. But to me there's nothing worse than someone whose only way of adding value is criticism something they weren't creative or proactive enough to do themselves.
  • pastylegs 13y ago
    Or maybe you can go easy on someone writing an interesting blog post in something other than their first language.
  • alexp 13y ago
    Title fixed. Thanks. ;)
  • bencollier49 13y ago
    You used a split infinitive there. ;-D
    • cottonseed 13y ago
      The simple split infinitive is not at all incorrect. See, for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split_infinitive#Current_views https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split_infinitive#Current_views
• contingencies 13y ago
  Yes, moving around is a pain. Power adaptors, crappy internet, lost days in airports, missing luggage, carrying things, finding decent accommodation, worrying about visas, changing money, etc. I'm location independent and change base-cities every year or so. I also spend maybe 6 months per year on the road. Honestly, I get more coding work done when I'm at my home-of-the-time. But a lot of the soft stuff: running in to people in related industries whose brains I can pick, spotting new potential hires, thinking up powerful bizdev ideas, etc. all happen far more on the road. I often stop for extended periods .. a week is typically the minimum. I've found the most important thing to manage is my own motivation: if work is getting in the way of relaxing, I can it for awhile. If relaxing is getting in the way of work, I can it for awhile. Being in a stationary, fixed environment with ongoing overheads and investments in random rapidly depreciating junk (like vehicles) is personally not a good situation for me. I get demotivated pretty immediately. On the other hand, sometimes transient living feels like it's getting long in the tooth, too. If that happens, I tend to switch it up a bit and pop cultures, rent a place longer term. The grass is always greener, right? As it turns out: often it is. And when you go back to somewhere you'd been before, both you and the place have changed. Bonus poem excerpt (sorry to those scrolling!): They'll allow me to choose, Where to settle anew, Be it in east or west. But with dollar now sliding, And frequent poor tidings, The orient does rather seem best! Aye if USA visas, Berkeley feminist divas, Could yet warrant a tired "may-be"... With all due respect, Most are pains in the neck, And I love a good foreign lady. So at present juncture, (Passed global acupuncture) I dream happily now of returning... To the rhythms of life, Of an eastern respite, From the world of democracy burning.
• gexla 13y ago
  I'm somewhat doing this, I made it as far as the Philippines and then I sort of planted myself. When sticking to one place, it's pretty much the same as being planted anywhere else. Obviously the author of the article moved around a lot more. My advice for S.E. Asia is don't get a hostel for AirBnB room. Get an actual apartment or even a house. Where I'm at you can get either month to month for $100 to $200 per month easy. My work takes a lot of my time, so I don't travel much. There is no way I could move around a lot. But with a good gig it's easy to take some time off and travel to another place for a couple of weeks. Flights are cheap to anywhere in the region and there are a lot of interesting places nearby. So, use your house or apartment as your home base and then take lots of vacations. Even just living abroad can get old though. After a number of years you wonder why you are doing it. What's the point? You begin to find out what really matters in life, which to me is family, my craft and... food! I haven't had real Mexican food for far too long. I would kill for a Subway sandwich. Even worse is that the Philippines isn't known for its food. But then, there are good reasons to stay as well. I think there is a lot of opportunity in S.E. Asia. I feel like I'm not missing out on opportunity in the U.S. because most of my work is there anyways and I already know the culture. ETA: I don't see how you could go out 5 nights a week. Even with just a few drinks and going to sleep later than usual, I feel it the next day. It's not even hangover, I would feel the same the next day just from screwing up my sleep schedule. If I did that 5 nights a week I would get nothing done. I generally get up crazy early to be available towards end of day for the U.S. though (12 hour difference from New York.)
  • asmosoinio 13y ago
    Had to comment on a minor thing: If you are in one of the big cities, Subway is easily available? http://www.subway.com.ph/Subway_front/layouts/ http://www.subway.com.ph/Subway_front/layouts/ It was what I had for lunch almost too often when living in Makati. A bit expensive compared to many of the local offerings, but always fresh and you know exactly what you get.
• alexp 13y ago
  Thank you all for commenting. I'm positively blown away. Especially considering the fact that it's just my first note on the blog. And sorry about the commas and possible grammar mistakes. English isn't my native tongue. I must have skipped those classes on punctuation.
• nickthemagicman 13y ago
  a
• spaboleo 13y ago
  I am really wondering how you communicate with your customers? Do they know that you are living in places where most of them might even can only dream of going to for vacation? Or do you just simply "not tell them"? How do you handle call requests then? Or situations where the customers just invites you over to discuss the project in detail in person? And what are their reactions like when you tell them that you currently are living just a stone's throw away from a beautiful sandy beach? What is the quota of lost jobs due to that? Thanks! Otherwise really insightful article. I enjoyed it :) And being a frequent traveller myself I would recommend you to stay longer in predefined places. Like you said...catering for the logistics (accommodation, internet access, checking out the neighborhood, finding grocery stores/restaurants) all that is yet interesting but really tiering and time consuming. It is a better choice to stay somewhere for 3 months, plan ahead for the next location during that period and use weekends or other "time-slots" of your choice to explore the region. If you want to travel to a place that would require you to have more time than a regular weekend offers, you should take a vacation. Which would require you to work the time on weekends the weeks before and of course one should stick to a set number of days off per year in addition. It's the student-dilemma...when there is no one micro-managing you, people tend to slack-off. So you should keep yourself accountable towards yourself in that situation. Like you were employed, but by yourself ;) Oh and another question: What is your girlfriend doing that she has the time and financial backup to do this with you? Is she working in the same field?
  • alexp 13y ago
    My clients always know exactly where I am, what's the time zone difference and all. During the two month period of the 'experiment' I didn't actively hunt for new leads, so I can't relate to the lost deals part. Call requests are done via Skype if needed. Regarding my girlfriend, during this two months, she's on vacation, although she actively helps with prototyping and concepts. We both had savings from day one of the trip and my freelancing gigs make up for a source of additional income that makes this thing less scary :)
    • spaboleo 13y ago
      Thanks for your reply. I would love to hear from you in an update-post, when those customer relations actually end and you have to establish new ones. Especially given the situation that you both, can't profit from the company's relations and are working remotely. Awesome travel blog as well...went straight to my feedly! Cheers
• dageshi 13y ago
  Having done this a bit, the answer is in my experience, figure out a good location in a particular country, in Thailand I'd say Chiang Mai, in China perhaps Yangshuo, Cambodia Siem Reap or Sihanoukville. Get yourself a cheap place/room for a month or so, do some serious work then when you've completed whatever it is you're doing do some proper traveling. Trying to do it all at once is mostly a killer. That's not to say you can't do maintenance and smaller tasks while actually traveling, but really building anything meaningful actually requires a lot more concentration in my opinion.
  • alexp 13y ago
    I absolutely agree. The thing is, that having been to most of those locations (except Sihanoukville and generally China), I just didn't feel that those places would be fun to stay in for a longer period of time. It all comes down to personal preferences of course. I was on the hunt for a good spot for myself and failed so far.
    • dageshi 13y ago
      Yeah for me they're ideal, they've got lots of guesthouses so there's plenty of competition and finding rooms for a month should be easy and pretty damned cheap. Tons of restaurants meaning you can more or less walk out the front door and find somewhere new to eat everyday cheaply. I kinda suspect you're looking on the wrong continent or as you say you're just not suited to it.
      • ledge 13y ago
        I've been in Phnom Penh for the last 3 weeks. It may not be as relaxing as Sihanoukville or somewhere else smaller but for me it's been the perfect place to work and focus. I found a nice (enough) apartment for 120$/month that is extremely close to the largest market in PP and Olympic stadium, where I exercise daily. Right outside my front door I can find excellent meals cooked by my friendly neighbors for less than a dollar. I'm here for at least a year, but probably longer; I love this place.
• dennybritz 13y ago
  Your blog should have comments. I've done this as well, I've lived in Thailand for 6 months and Japan for a year, and other countries for longer period of time, mostly doing remote freelancing work. I somewhat disagree with your first point (I've been getting good and big projects), but I completely agree with the second one. There is a lot of mental baggage when you have not "settled" down and don't have established habits. I am starting to think that a more effective way would be to do several weeks of focused work, 1-2 week travel, rinse and repeat.
  • alexp 13y ago
    I absolutely didn't plan for this kind of 'publicity' for the post, to be honest. Comments will be added. Regarding the first point - I guess it's a matter of commitment. From day one this was mainly a travel project first and remote working project second. I believe that if I found a place I really would love to stay at for longer than a month, my view would be slightly different. But still, I tried to describe honestly what I thought about the past two months.
• agibsonccc 13y ago
  Great story. This is something similar to what I'm close to building for myself. I had wondered what it would be like if I had actually achieved it. That being said, if I rotate places I would try to stay for a decent chunk of time. I couldn't imagine constant travel. It's just not productive if only for the fact that travel itself tends to limit ability to do work. That doesn't count the cognitive load of establishing a somewhat productive routine.
• skizm 13y ago
  Has anyone tried this working only in the United States? I feel like this would be easier as internet access isn't at a premium (you can always tether on your smart phone worst comes to worst). The United States also has lots of large clients and if you want a larger technical challenge you can always set up camp near their offices for a few weeks and work in house. On the non-technical side of things you can find any kind of environment you want in the US. Mountains, beaches, cites, etc. I know you won't get the rewards of traveling abroad but you get 90% of what the ideal is and you can always take some time off big projects and travel abroad if you feel like it. This is coming from a US citizen who loves his country despite all the fucked up shit that it's government does sometimes, so maybe I'm bias, but I definitely think the life is possible.
  • SyneRyder 13y ago
    I'm sure it's possible, I've travelled through parts of the US with my business mostly on autopilot. The higher cost of living can make it trickier though, part of being a digital nomad is income arbitrage (ie earning a US salary but spending it in a country where your US Dollars are worth a fortune). It won't be the same as travelling overseas & experiencing different cultures though... part of the fun is returning to your home country after months overseas and seeing your home culture with fresh eyes. But it could be a good start. I think you're overestimating the difficulty of finding WiFi & internet, though. I've often found better internet connections while traveling through Europe than in the US. But if you're a US citizen, travelling just through the US will simplify visa concerns, which helps a bit.
• pwpwp 13y ago
  I've just travelled through Europe for three months as a location-independent consultant and what worked well for me was to stay at least a week in any place, and travel only on weekends. This got me into a nice rhythm where I could be as productive as at home.
• kimar 13y ago
  Very interesting discussion as I am just starting my digital nomad life. Like the author suggests, I strongly believe in staying at least a couple months at every destination (where you'd like to get some work done). One thing I'm curious about is if some of you have tried finding local clients in destinations you visit? This is obviously easier in big cities than in Kho Phi Phi, and will most likely pay less than a US-based client. Nevertheless, I'd imagine it to be a great way to get immersed in the local lifestyle and solves some of the issues mentioned in the post (eg: timezone, workplace).
• jfb_1973 13y ago
  My wife and I were talking about a property we found in Central America that was pretty amazing. Having been a backpacker when I was younger (in the 90s) I always wanted to set up a small hostel/hotel type thing somewhere beautiful. I wonder if you could build a business serving the Digital Nomad. Basically offer a place to live + a coworking space. The traveling hacker gets the benefit of having a good place to work, plus the benefit of hanging out with other hackers whom you can chat with, maybe even pick up new work.
• __--__ 13y ago
  I recently did something similar to this short term (airbnb for a month in SF) and I'm curious: are all digital nomads strictly software guys or writers? I have physical electronics and carpentry projects I like to do in my spare time, so I had a trunk full of tools during my airbnb stay. Is it possible to do hardware projects on the road? Maybe rely on hackerspaces for tools and such?
• rdixit 13y ago
  I did this throughout India for 9 months. Reliable wifi access is a must and more difficult to secure than you'd think, perhaps. But by moving only every 2 or 3 months, I find there's a good balance between setting up shop, getting familiar with your environment, etc. and just getting shi* done.. YMMV
• pjbrunet 13y ago
  I don't think he mentioned safety or crime either. Law enforcement varies state to state, town to town. Off-limits neighborhoods, speed traps, tricky intersections where accidents are common, quirky customs and conventions. Gang colors? Towing! Some states left turns go first, in Texas left turns go last. Frontage roads in Texas are really crazy and we have life-threatening flash floods regularly. "Turn around, don't drown." Knowledge of local insects, snakes, animals, etc.
• Lucadg 13y ago
  I worked online, run my "little Airbnb" and travelled/lived in more than 50 countries since 2001. The fact that your productivity suffers can be interpreted in a positive way: you CAN'T work too much because you are kept busy with the non-routine stuff. I absolutely love it and wouldn't change this for a 100% productive environment anytime soon. It's my protection against the work-a-lot-buy-stuff-you-don't-need routine. So I am forced to spend money in non trivial things as keeping the flexibility is expensive. When I need to get some serious work done I stay in Italy, Bangkok, Bali or Prague for a few months. It takes me a couple of weeks to settle in Bali, 1 day in Prague (I just need to rent an apartment), 1 day in Bangkok and more or less a week in other places. I also did a lot of backpacking (a few days in each place) and I agree that this greatly reduces the productivity. You have to find the balance which works for you, anytime, anywhere. Not easy, but it's there somewhere.
• Dewie 13y ago
  On the one hand, I can understand all the complaints here that traveling makes hard work since you often have to forego all the creature comforts you have become accostumed to, and might rely on to a large degree in order to be productive. On the other hand, programmers are notorious for their binge-coding-marathons, living off less-than-optimal nutrition and little sleep. I can imagine that this type of person could sustain to have a few bumpy days when settling into a new location (of course, even if one can manage to sustain some binge-coding now and then does not mean that you can do it often. So I guess you still might have to find a comfortable setup and routine while away from home, eventually).
• cmccabe 13y ago
  Excessive travel is terrible for the environment. You can easily generate many times the amount of carbon dioxide you would emit by driving for a year, simply by taking a long plane flight or two. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/27/sunday-review/the-biggest-carbon-sin-air-travel.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/27/sunday-review/the-biggest-... Travel is nice, but not when you do it just to brag about having gone to X countries in Y days. Then it just becomes a status thing, and is, as the author notes, "kind of douchey." The internet, good news sources, and documentaries can broaden your horizons even without leaving the house.
  • sobri 13y ago
    Always take trains overland. Flying should be reserved only for trips that cross water. Besides, travelling by train is much more fun.
    • khuey 13y ago
      Unfortunately not always a realistic option (exhibit A: North America).
      • wpietri 13y ago
        Why's that? I have a friend who travels mostly by train in the US. She seems pretty happy with it. It takes time, but she's got a laptop and an outlet, so she's happy.
      • pessimizer 13y ago
        I do it in North America. Every long trip needs two days of padding on each side, but people make allowances for you as if you had a phobia of flying. When all of your business trips become taking the Amtrak in a Roomette to your B&B, business travel becomes a lot less stressful.
    • goblin89 13y ago
      In certain places travelling by train can be a bit too much fun. If it's USA or Japan (trains have Wi-Fi or distances are small, and it's safe)—sure, no reason to fly.
• lnanek2 13y ago
  I fly almost every week and, honestly, I get a lot more work done those weekends I stay in one place. Even ordering cars ahead of time you aren't going to get as much coding done when you are hoping in planes and out of cars and waiting for departures, or arranging the next week's hotel stay or other stuff.
• timedoctor 13y ago
  I travelled and worked for over 3 years with 1 month at a time. After working on my time management skills I found that it did not decrease my productivity that significantly (maybe 10% reduction?). This is mostly from things that you cannot get when traveling for example: Multiple big screen monitors, regularly stocked fridge with easy to eat food, extra time taken to find locations to eat and wash your clothes etc. This is assuming you're switching locations every 1-2 months. If you move locations every week it's a huge drain in productivity as it takes time to get set up and to travel etc. Have now fixed in one place just because I have a baby, but otherwise would be possible to keep traveling. I think a bigger problem of constant travel is the lack of a regular community.
• malandrew 13y ago
  The best way to do meaningful work while living as a digital nomad is to contribute to open source. IRC, mailing lists and Github issues provide all the conversation and decision making infrastructure necessary to make the same architectural choices needed to build something with the same level of substance and depth as any project being tackled in an office environment.
  • mooreds 13y ago
    My takeaway from the article was that the cognitive overload of being in a new environment was at least as big a factor in not being able to handle meaningful work (that is to say, challenging work that forces you to grow) as the logistics. But what you suggest has merit and I'd be interested to hear what the nomads' take on it is.
    • malandrew 13y ago
      Totes. The one big difference though with open source projects versus client work is that the logistics of collaboration in open source never changes. It's always somewhat async and almost always communicated in writing, with various tools to help (JSBin, Gists, Diffs, IRC, email, etc.). With clients, the biggest complicator is negotiating how to communicate with them, which can occur for every new project and on every move. Time zone differences compound these negotiations because so many people expect phone or video calls to sync up.
• davidgerard 13y ago
  If you're going to take a holiday, take a proper damn holiday. "Digital nomads" are fictional characters from Charlie Stross novels. (Or, if you're unlucky, Cory Doctorow novels.)
  • jimmhay 13y ago
    "Fictional" - How so, David? If you define digital nomadism as working from the road via the internet - 'location-independent entrepreneurialism' - I know hundreds of people doing this successfully.
• heyitsnick 13y ago
  I see there's lots of insightful comments here from "digital nomads." Are there any good forums or communities online where you congregate to discuss these issues?
  • jimmhay 13y ago
    I'm part of a paid, private online forum of 'digital nomads' (though everyone hates that term) or 'location-independent entrepreneurs' that also places much importance on solving entrepreneurial loneliness via in-person meetups etc. There are hundreds of members. You have to be doing something worthwhile to be accepted. It's called the Dynamite Circle.
    • goblin89 13y ago
      From this page it seems you just have to pay around $30/month: http://www.tropicalmba.com/innercircle/ http://www.tropicalmba.com/innercircle/
      • jimmhay 13y ago
        That's correct. It's eclipsed by the value.
  • kimar 13y ago
    I also have been looking for this and have found nothing free & compelling out there. I'm considering building a platform for a self-organized digital nomad community. I am currently exploring ways to provide initial value to have it grow organically and would love to get other people's perspective.
  • personlurking 13y ago
    It's certainly a great idea and would be excellent for getting a leg up on opportunities near where you happen to be living at the moment. The difficulty in it is the chicken and egg dilemma and the initial non-concentrated userbase. I only know of various expat community forums and sites which anyone can find with a Google search and a few subreddits (like /IWantOut). Edit: I found this via Google http://www.digitalnomadcommunity.net/ http://www.digitalnomadcommunity.net/
• jonmy 13y ago
  I'm a location independent UX/ UI, startup guy who has been doing this for a long time. Over the years, I've raised capital for one startup, worked with high-profile clients on complicated projects, and worked on my own stuff, all while being more or less unattached to a location. I've clocked time in South America (Ecuador, Argentina, Chile, Uruguay), Mexico, Taiwan, India, China, and Southeast Asia (Vietnam, Malaysia, Thailand) and the list goes on. I'm not dropping these locations or the info above to show off, I'm simply lending perspective. I slow travel - meaning I usually set up for at least 3 months, if not longer. My most recent stint was on and off Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam for 6 months+ where I was lucky enough to get embedded in the local startup scene. The biggest flaw with the article and the idea of the digital nomad as presented in general is prioritizing lifestyle over business. It makes being a "nomad" seem like a wandering soul hopping gig to gig taking advantage of low cost locations without much strategy or purpose. Additionally, I sense the job or employee mindset in the tone of the article, which is fine, but I wouldn't hit the road with that mindset. If you're going to take on this lifestyle you can't have an employee mindset. It won't work, and most will end up broke or bored trying to sustain the lifestyle and scrambling to try and find remote work. A whole point of being location independent, which the article neglects is how you can be more strategic about your location, expand your network by being exposed to serendipitous opportunities that would have otherwise not presented themselves, and grow your business. The opportunity to expose yourself to places and people on an upward trajectory, and how you can add value to those situations and take advantage of them should be a priority at the top of the list. Not just a beach hammock, backpacker ghetto or a cool place to work and Instagram. Otherwise, what's the point.
• pfortuny 13y ago
  I read , much of the night And go South in the Winter.
• bobonaza 13y ago
  I have been working on, gotten funded, and grown my DYI'd startup while living as a digital nomad. Since being funded I have worked with a number of collaborators. I try to only hire people that move a lot. because I live that way it feels good that the people I get to work with share that lifestyle. We are actually currently doing our first group face2face powwow now for 2 weeks. It's great to be in person together but everyone, myself included is such a lone wolf that working together in person is awkward. We all disperse to our corners and work. Hanging out having cigarettes and chatting about development, that's where the value in being together is it seems. We are hiring again now. Anyone know the best forums to find digital nomads (term is getting worn out) looking for work. It would fit our company's culture to bring on another traveling developer.
  • SyneRyder 13y ago
    Heya bobonaza, I see you're new to HN (welcome!) You might have more luck getting people to contact you if you fill out your profile - try adding a few website links of what you're working on and maybe an email address or Twitter handle :)
• ozim 13y ago
  I would like to take different approach, get my gf to some calm place. Have a nice house, good internet connection which is now not a big problem even in country side. Lead simple life far from city, have my "home office" room. Country side is cheaper and a lot nicer, I could get great coffe doing it by myself instead of working from "shops". Traveling would be needed also because it is easier to work with someone you met at least once face to face, or going on vacations but without work. That would be life of digital hermit :)
• ivanhoe 13y ago
  Very good text. I'm struggling with the same problems right now, typing this from a beautiful medieval city in Istria, Croatia, and trying to look at my laptop and not at the wonderful landscapes and Adriatic sea on the horizon. It's harder than it might sound and extremely distracting. And I have to sit here because it's the only place around with a decent wifi. Self-discipline is a b__ch...
  • msantos 13y ago
    I'm considering leaving my stable job in London, for remote/freelancing while based in Istria/Croatia any of these days.
• mr_luc 13y ago
  I've been living 9 months per year in coastal pacific south america -- for the past 7 years. I am not a "nomad", and my experience is the opposite -- I am much, much more productive working remotely. I did actually enjoy the article for the useful information it can provide others considering this, but (as many of the comments in this thread point out) the author is clearly Doing It Wrong. I don't think it has much bearing on working internationally. Two thoughts: 1. 'I changed a massive part of my life and, 2 months in, I feel less efficient!' Gee, really? 2 months is just about long enough to investigate a new location, but it pales in comparison to the amount of time you've spent optimizing your life in your old locations. 2. Home base. Living. Everyone here is saying the same thing: you need a solid, stable home base. Maybe there are rare butterflies who can flit from hostel to hostel and feel good. The rest of us typically have more of a relationship with our surroundings. I hate traveling. I love living in great parts of the world, though. I have a modest 2-story house I bought, one block back from the ocean in an 800-person fishing village. It's my home base. I am fantastically productive when I am there. Far, far, far more so than when (maybe close to launch date) some clients request that I sit in their lovely, stylish, noisy open-plan offices, where you cannot take a nap and where you have the mental barrier of a commute bookending your days.
  • personlurking 13y ago
    > I hate traveling. I love living in great parts of the world, though. Good point. This is my view as well, though I've moved many times in order to try out new places...in order to find those great parts of the world. I'm on my 2nd country and I'm a lot closer to what would be ideal for me. The nomad life I live is, in reality, more of a nomadic mover than a nomadic traveler. The hard part is when the grass is always greener.
• homakov 13y ago
  I dont understand what are you trying to say. I traveled around the world and had nonproblem consulting people meanwhile.
• keek1016 13y ago
  I spent 8 months traveling through Central and South America helping someone develop a travel site, Skilljet.com, a job I found through Odesk. Although I loved every minute of it, I can agree that there are some limitations. It's a bit hard to venture off into remote territory, when work is dependent upon stable internet access. And when moving around often, it can take a bit of time to get re-settled and find a comfortable work place. However, like I said, I loved every minute of it! I initially left for my trip with only $600 USD in my account. Working online allowed me to stretch what would have been a 3 week trip into an 8 month trip where I was able to visit 6 different countries! When I found my 'office' to be a hammock on a beautiful beach in Brazil, I knew I had accomplished something very special. Also, since Skilljet is a website designed to help travelers find amazing adventure around the world, I was able to contribute to its development from my personal travel experience. This really helped me unite, both the virtual world of working online, with the physical world around me, which made my experience much more meaningful.
• charleshaanel 13y ago
  This is a thoughtful discussion. But it doesn't really address those of us that have kinda "graduated" from digital nomad hood. By that I mean, for some of us, you get to the point where yes, you want the advantage of multiple locations - but you also want routine. The problem is when you start traveling around enough, it gets harder and harder to "get it all" in one place. For me the solution is, as one person mentioned (or rather, several) 1. establish a home base(s) 2. get second homes or rentals you've been to before in familiar places (you can get to know AirBnB landlords many of the have multiple homes) 3. coworking spots around the world 4. start connecting with nomad communities - like a diplomat, you'll start running into the same people over and over again - forums, private/paid communities 5. tap into your alumni abroad community (if you have one) 6. establish daily routines (for me, it's a morning call with several other location independent founders) 7. meet ups Eventually you'll have a set up where you have say "home bases" in 2-3 countries/continents....places you can go back to sleep in your own bed, say Hi to the local butcher, grocer etc, read your own books..... ...then you can travel several times a year (conferences, random hot spots, etc) - for the excitement, because one starts to miss the thrill of traveling. I definitely think though that multiple home bases + coworking spots + connecting with the location independent community + a codified daily routine is the way to go! Anyone who can enjoy this life should be totally grateful for the options it affords one. The biggest challenge I've found (someone tell me if you can relate) is that often I find myself hanging out with: 1. trust fund babies (born into having the time, income, location freedom) 2. retirees (have the time, income, location freedom but had to work for it) 3. people on welfare (have the time and often times the money too, lol) 4. location independent professionals/entrepreneurs (perfect match but still quite niche) ...in my age group. Man when you walk around during the day, outside of the traditional corporate/9-to-5 set up, that's rarefied air. Someone who really establishes his/her community as the penultimate resource for connecting location independent founders and professionals with homes, coworking sports almost like a done-for-you social network, will be solving a huge problem.
• geoarbitrage 13y ago
  Hi folks found this discussion through Dan Andrews on www tropicalmba com/digital-nomad/ My 2 cents, I am aspiring to an online business and to be able to work when I want to not because I have to. To that end when my regular job ended 3+ years ago, I decided to work as a contractor. I work as a professional in Australia but live in S-E Asia. My work schedule is about 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off. It's a little like the Four Hour Work Week prescription for geographical arbitrage. It's not perfect, and if the AUD tumbles will have to re-assess. Compared with previously I work the same hours per day for 12 days/month - before I used to work these hours or more for about 22-24 days/month + as employee had lots of administrative and bureaucractic headaches which you cannot help taking home. As I am on contract have none of these - or very little. Those admin and politicial headaches are so bad for your health. Now I have some time to think and strategise on my long term plan - and act! Anyway good luck to all looking for something different.