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This article is idiotic: Cloud synchronisation is not backup. If you think that, you are a wally, despite the vendor's promises. This is a new feature they hav

This article is idiotic: Cloud synchronisation is not backup. If you think that, you are a wally, despite the vendor's promises. This is a new feature they have added that allows sync between devices. It doesn't stop any of the old ways of doing stuff from working other than windows backup which was a piece of shit that didn't work properly anyway. Sync is always notoriously problematic at the best of times so YMMV always with that approach. Realistically, most people just drag stuff to a USB stick periodically and that's good enough for backup. That's how it really works.

aristidb 13y ago
The point is that the author agrees with you, except for the part where they disabled the old built-in backup functionality...
- harrytuttle 13y ago
  The problem is that the old backup solution was crappy anyway so I'm glad they removed it. The basic options were: 1. System image backup. Backs up your fucked system with fucked files. Oh that's it. Not very helpful. As before, everyone just buys 3rd party backup software, sticks it on a USB stick or doesn't bother.
  - w0utert 13y ago
    So the SkyDrive setup screen declares that it will 'back up files to the cloud' while it doesn't, and there is no reliable default back-up solution that ships with Windows 8.1. I'd say it isn't so much the article that's 'idiotic', but how little Microsoft seems to care about providing ways to keep your files safe if you're using Windows...
    - harrytuttle 13y ago
      Yes there is. You can copy files to another disk. Third time I've said that. you don't need an app for that. It's also the simplest solution that fits in the head space of a user. Linux doesn't come with a backup app either. You have some tools (dump/tar/dd) from which you can build one or you buy one in (bacula, Amanda etc). Same with windows (powershell, vhd cmdlets etc).
      - mrmagooey 13y ago
        I don't think anyone holds up Linux as the gold standard for simple, built-in, user friendly, GUI-based, system essential utilities, and holding it up as such seems like a bit of a strawman here. I believe the gold standard for the above is OSX's Time Machine, which most consumers would probably prefer over manually copying files (manually versioned files tend towards a total mess over time IMO).
        rolux 13y ago
        Minus the GUI though, you can build something that's functionally equivalent to Time Machine, and it shouldn't take much more time than it takes to read `man rsync`.
      - qwerta 13y ago
        > Linux doesn't come with a backup app either False. Most linux distributions comes with free backup tools included in default installation.
    - orf 13y ago
      just gonna point out that skydrive has its own recycle bin and file history, so you can restore lost/damaged files using the skydrive site.
      - keithpeter 13y ago
        Good news. How many versions are kept? Is it possible to 'revert' all files or do you have to do that file by file?
        orf 13y ago
        Quite a few, 10+ for word documents at least. I have no idea if its possible to revert all files, that would be a good function to have in the interface.
    - orf 13y ago
      just gonna point out that skydrive has its own recycle bin and file history, so you can restore lost/damaged files using the skydrive site.
- deleted 13y ago
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- deleted 13y ago
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edandersen 13y ago
OP here, I think I said it several times that SkyDrive is not a backup system, despite MS trying to claim it is.
- harrytuttle 13y ago
  If you read their terms and conditions they say it's not a backup system as well. People really need to read the SLAs etc.
  - chris_wot 13y ago
    I think you might have missed the point of what the author was saying. Check out the screenshot he posted: http://www.edandersen.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/image.png http://www.edandersen.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/image.p... Notice it says that your files are "automatically backed up to the cloud"?
    - harrytuttle 13y ago
      Yes i saw that. It's true, but its not a substitute for a backup setvice. If it was, they wouldn't have the discontinuation of service and disclaimers in their T&C.
      - pessimizer 13y ago
        But you can understand how people could confuse "automatically backed up" and 'automatic backup', right?
- teamonkey 13y ago
  Like DropBox, SkyDrive contains a version history of your files, including a way to recover accidentally deleted ones. Did upgrading destroy the version history too?
- notatoad 13y ago
  Just because you said it several times, doesn't make it correct. SkyDrive is mirroring and backup - changes in skydrive are versioned, which means that if an unwanted change gets mirrored you can revert it.
keithpeter 13y ago
"Realistically, most people just drag stuff to a USB stick periodically and that's good enough for backup. That's how it really works." Most of my friends and colleagues say 'what is a backup?' when I ask. So a sync to a skydrive account may be better than what they have already, but I think the OA was saying that Win 8.1 could have made a genuine backup easier to do and less 'technical', thus improving data safety. Instead the Microsoft people chose a different approach. The OA thinks that once people lose files because of an infection or corruption of storage, and if those files are synced large scale data loss will occur, and users will blame it on Skydrive.
- harrytuttle 13y ago
  The users always blame everyone else for their extreme ignorance. That's IT for you as a whole.
  - keithpeter 13y ago
    I am a user. I understand your point, but as the OA was arguing, the changes may render the Windows 8 'brand' toxic.
  - Dylan16807 13y ago
    It's not the user's fault when a service deletes their data off of their drives. Sync without version history is a terrible idea. Edit: but apparently this article is wrong and skydrive does have version history?
Peaker 13y ago
A less computer literate friend called me and asked if I can help restore his file. He regularly backed up his work file by dragging it into a USB stick, until one time he dragged the wrong way! He lost his recent work which was a big deal for him, as it was a whole chapter in a book he was writing that he believed turned out really well.. I suggested using Dropbox instead.

aristidb 13y ago

The point is that the author agrees with you, except for the part where they disabled the old built-in backup functionality...

harrytuttle 13y ago
The problem is that the old backup solution was crappy anyway so I'm glad they removed it. The basic options were: 1. System image backup. Backs up your fucked system with fucked files. Oh that's it. Not very helpful. As before, everyone just buys 3rd party backup software, sticks it on a USB stick or doesn't bother.
- w0utert 13y ago
  So the SkyDrive setup screen declares that it will 'back up files to the cloud' while it doesn't, and there is no reliable default back-up solution that ships with Windows 8.1. I'd say it isn't so much the article that's 'idiotic', but how little Microsoft seems to care about providing ways to keep your files safe if you're using Windows...
  - harrytuttle 13y ago
    Yes there is. You can copy files to another disk. Third time I've said that. you don't need an app for that. It's also the simplest solution that fits in the head space of a user. Linux doesn't come with a backup app either. You have some tools (dump/tar/dd) from which you can build one or you buy one in (bacula, Amanda etc). Same with windows (powershell, vhd cmdlets etc).
    - mrmagooey 13y ago
      I don't think anyone holds up Linux as the gold standard for simple, built-in, user friendly, GUI-based, system essential utilities, and holding it up as such seems like a bit of a strawman here. I believe the gold standard for the above is OSX's Time Machine, which most consumers would probably prefer over manually copying files (manually versioned files tend towards a total mess over time IMO).
      - rolux 13y ago
        Minus the GUI though, you can build something that's functionally equivalent to Time Machine, and it shouldn't take much more time than it takes to read `man rsync`.
    - qwerta 13y ago
      > Linux doesn't come with a backup app either False. Most linux distributions comes with free backup tools included in default installation.
  - orf 13y ago
    just gonna point out that skydrive has its own recycle bin and file history, so you can restore lost/damaged files using the skydrive site.
    - keithpeter 13y ago
      Good news. How many versions are kept? Is it possible to 'revert' all files or do you have to do that file by file?
      - orf 13y ago
        Quite a few, 10+ for word documents at least. I have no idea if its possible to revert all files, that would be a good function to have in the interface.
  - orf 13y ago
    just gonna point out that skydrive has its own recycle bin and file history, so you can restore lost/damaged files using the skydrive site.
deleted 13y ago
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deleted 13y ago
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edandersen 13y ago

OP here, I think I said it several times that SkyDrive is not a backup system, despite MS trying to claim it is.

harrytuttle 13y ago
If you read their terms and conditions they say it's not a backup system as well. People really need to read the SLAs etc.
- chris_wot 13y ago
  I think you might have missed the point of what the author was saying. Check out the screenshot he posted: http://www.edandersen.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/image.png http://www.edandersen.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/image.p... Notice it says that your files are "automatically backed up to the cloud"?
  - harrytuttle 13y ago
    Yes i saw that. It's true, but its not a substitute for a backup setvice. If it was, they wouldn't have the discontinuation of service and disclaimers in their T&C.
    - pessimizer 13y ago
      But you can understand how people could confuse "automatically backed up" and 'automatic backup', right?
teamonkey 13y ago
Like DropBox, SkyDrive contains a version history of your files, including a way to recover accidentally deleted ones. Did upgrading destroy the version history too?
notatoad 13y ago
Just because you said it several times, doesn't make it correct. SkyDrive is mirroring and backup - changes in skydrive are versioned, which means that if an unwanted change gets mirrored you can revert it.

keithpeter 13y ago

"Realistically, most people just drag stuff to a USB stick periodically and that's good enough for backup. That's how it really works." Most of my friends and colleagues say 'what is a backup?' when I ask. So a sync to a skydrive account may be better than what they have already, but I think the OA was saying that Win 8.1 could have made a genuine backup easier to do and less 'technical', thus improving data safety. Instead the Microsoft people chose a different approach. The OA thinks that once people lose files because of an infection or corruption of storage, and if those files are synced large scale data loss will occur, and users will blame it on Skydrive.

harrytuttle 13y ago
The users always blame everyone else for their extreme ignorance. That's IT for you as a whole.
- keithpeter 13y ago
  I am a user. I understand your point, but as the OA was arguing, the changes may render the Windows 8 'brand' toxic.
- Dylan16807 13y ago
  It's not the user's fault when a service deletes their data off of their drives. Sync without version history is a terrible idea. Edit: but apparently this article is wrong and skydrive does have version history?

Peaker 13y ago

A less computer literate friend called me and asked if I can help restore his file. He regularly backed up his work file by dragging it into a USB stick, until one time he dragged the wrong way! He lost his recent work which was a big deal for him, as it was a whole chapter in a book he was writing that he believed turned out really well.. I suggested using Dropbox instead.