9 ms·

The CEO of Panera Bread attempts to live off food stamps for a week

88 points by weu 13y ago

ethana 13y ago
I applied for it and got one of those EBT card. There's a food stamps office right in the financial aid building on my uni campus. So I got it while applying for financial aid. Fooze money:)
Cookingboy 13y ago
Really respect him for what he tried to do, but there may be a flaw in the logic behind competitions like this. He said with the 30 something dollars budget he was forced to drop items like milk and coffee, but for many items like that, they will last for more than a week (I certainly don't drink a gallon of milk a week). So their cost is distributed over more than just one week. A more realistic challenge would be given a weekly budget but make the challenge to last say.. a month or so. But for obvious reasons it won't be as easy to pull off :)
- gscott 13y ago
  Also when your poor you need to buy milk because cereal is cheap and filling. I spent $91 this week for groceries for 3 people this week and it will last. Cereal, 50% off meat, half off soups, and so on.
  - jlgreco 13y ago
    Eh, I prefer cereal dry, particularly grapenuts. All cereal with milk tastes the same to me. A glass of water on the side takes care of dryness.
- jared314 13y ago
  A month would be more realistic, but i'm not sure you can replicate the real situation in a time-box. A single week, like any change in diet, would just show how difficult it is to change habits, and how well you can forestall your desires. A month would allow time to form new habits, but you can still wait out the time limit to indulge your cravings.
jared314 13y ago
Day 2 is already up: http://www.linkedin.com/today/post/article/20130914223744-25745675-snap-challenge-day-2 http://www.linkedin.com/today/post/article/20130914223744-25... I would have rather read this at the end of the challenge, so there would be some sort of perspective on things.
- thejulielogan 13y ago
  But there's something authentic about sharing things as you realize them. Less chance for editing. It's also going to give him an interesting POV on his own evolution and realizations.
- fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
  I like what he's written here in day 2. "The distinctive ripping sound of someone biting into a fresh apple; the maracas-like percussion produced by a canister of Planters’ peanuts; even the change in a person’s voice that occurs when they speak with a lifesaver in their mouth – I was hyper aware whenever those around me consumed. At about 6:25 p.m., I even broke down and paid 40 cents to a colleague for a small handful of peanuts, and soon after, handed over a dime to another for an Atomic Fireball. For those keeping score, I’m down to $5.05 remaining to supplement the groceries I bought at the start of the Challenge." It reminds me of a trip I took with some friends where we had planned all of our meals as military MRE's (Meals Ready to Eat). We figured that we were very clever for having the military do our nutritional research for us. After a few days of almost exclusively eating these wretched things, I found that I could smell cucumbers being sliced over a mile away. Obviously, things like bacon and hamburgers frying were much stronger even than the cucumbers. I had the same experience as Shalch describes that I found myself marking time until the next meal, and I imagine that I was getting a lot more calories than he is (I was probably burning more too), because we brought some extra food and coffee, and weren't limited by our budget.
peterwwillis 13y ago
"On Wednesday night, after a long work day, I got into my car" That's his first mistake. Many (most?) people on food stamps can't afford a car. When you have little money for food, and you just got off the late shift of your second job, you have an even longer trip to the store, costing you more money. Many of these people also may live in food deserts, where the most common type of store is a liquor store, followed maybe by a payday loan place and a gas station, or a bar. That's where I live anyway. The closest grocery store is a very poorly maintained Aldi, and some people I know take a cab there and back once a week so they don't have to spend an hour or more traveling by bus.
- shitlord 13y ago
  Just curious, where do you live? I ask because the only time I've ever had to take taxis constantly was when visiting NYC, and it still wasn't cheap (although, cheaper than a taxi to the airport 10 mins away).
  - carlob 13y ago
    I'm curious as well: why did you take cabs constantly when visiting NYC? My take is that you enjoy the neighborhoods much more if you just walk, and when you just need to go from point A to point B fast, the subway works very well (with the exception of going from the museum mile to anywhere else).
    - shitlord 13y ago
      When I visited, it was freezing cold outside, and half the people in my group were drunk. We were really just trying to get from one party to another, which is why we decided to take a cab, because it would require minimal effort. Anyway, my point was that when you have a limit of about $30 per week for groceries, you probably can't afford to take a cab there and back.
  - peterwwillis 13y ago
    Baltimore City. We don't have to take taxis constantly, but it can be a better choice than the alternatives if you don't have a car: 1. Do I walk the 45 minutes each way (carrying groceries on the way back) through dangerous neighborhoods and probably get mugged or worse? (Baltimore is among the 10 most dangerous cities in America) 2. If I have a bike with a basket, do I bike and take the same risk? (People get mugged off their bike frequently here) 3. Do I wait the 80-120 minutes round trip for the bus? (This is often preferable to walking the dangerous neighborhoods, not to mention you can put your bags down) 4. Do I take a taxi, once per week (or less if you buy in bulk) to the store to save time and hassle? The young women I know in the area who live in a food desert often take the taxi option as it's just less of a risk and they don't want to spend the time and hassle of other options. You spend more money to be safe and get things done after a long day of work.
mynameishere 13y ago
Sigh. Food stamps are properly called SNAP or "Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program". The name isn't a joke--they are supposed to be "supplemental", not an all-you-can-eat buffet. The reality is that they cause all kinds of abuses, some legal and some illegal. The CEO of Panera Bread is probably not an idiot, and is probably aware of this, so I think it would be best that we not take his pandering too seriously.
zirok 13y ago
These kinds of challenges are pointless. It's true that living on a food stamp budget is hard, but it's not impossible. The real trouble begins when you encounter unexpected costs. When you are living from hand to mouth you can't plan ahead for whatever mishap might happen, be it illness, a car crash or just about anything that might make your already tight budget nonexistent.
- meowface 13y ago
  You're right, though he is showing that in fact it's hard to get a full and balanced diet using just food stamps as an income. So he's contributing to your point, even if he's not going through a full "challenge" of forcing himself to spend no more than X amount in a month on bills/mainteinance/etc. It's hard to properly emulate what it's truly like to live in poverty.
- iamshs 13y ago
  True. Food can be managed by rationing and not indulging in pleasures, the problem exists beyond food. Unexpected illness, getting from one place to another by public transport, not tending to an illness, thinking about passing out on a bar of mars etc. Poverty makes you helpless.
- rodrodrod 13y ago
  I don't think the challenge is "what's it like to live as the average person who depends on food stamps" but rather "what's it like (even provided all of the other luxuries in my life) to feed myself for $30 a week". The guy is obviously smart enough to know that he can't properly simulate the former challenge, but if anything at least the latter challenge should shed some light on the difficulty of properly feeding yourself under such a budget.
sc68cal 13y ago
While reading this story, please keep this guide handy, which measures the political donations that his company makes: http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/summary.php?id=D000059478&cycle=A http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/summary.php?id=D000059478&cy... I should note that the latest Farm Bill attempted to decouple SNAP funds from the agriculture parts of the bill, which historically was the only way to protect SNAP benefits from being significantly slashed. http://www.forbes.com/sites/nadiaarumugam/2013/07/13/republicans-cut-food-stamps-from-farm-bill-whats-the-big-deal/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/nadiaarumugam/2013/07/13/republi... So, while this is a commendable action on his part, there are individuals inside his company funding candidates and a party that advocates elimination of the entire program, because of supposed moochers and "young bucks" who go and buy steaks, abusing the system. Perhaps he can lead by example and help change some attitudes inside his company. EDIT: The political donations are from individuals in the company, instead of from a PAC the company controls. There are however, other organizations that Panera may be a part of (The Chamber of Commerce comes to mind) that also have poured a lot of money into Republican coffers.
- jamesaguilar 13y ago
  Ten thousand dollars per year is negligible, especially since almost half of it has gone to dems. They probably resisted the change you mentioned. If there's any doubt that your comment is talking about a non-issue, it's also worth mentioning that all those contributions are from individuals, who he is legally unable to influence. This nit doesn't even qualify as microscopic. It'd be better if you just skipped picking it. Edit: re: your edit, why would you criticize them over organizations they may be a part of?
  - jlgreco 13y ago
    > criticize them over organizations they may be a part of It is the classic HN desire to be contrarian reaching new lows.
    - jamesaguilar 13y ago
      If you can't tell someone why they're wrong, you can't win, right? That seems to be the rule here, even when someone is doing something eminently sensible and helpful like trying to see things from a different perspective (in whatever limited way that might be possible).
jmtame 13y ago
For $3 a day you can eat (relatively) healthy food and only shop once or twice a week: http://www.miketuritzin.com/writing/eating-healthily-for-3-a-day http://www.miketuritzin.com/writing/eating-healthily-for-3-a... I've tried this for a few months. It's hard to do just the rice and beans. We modified it by adding salsa, shredded cheese, and tortilla shells to make burritos out of everything. It's probably an extra $20-$30 per month to do that.
- ctdonath 13y ago
  A LOT of people do very well on $1/meal or less. It's basic frugality.
  - jmtame 13y ago
    $1 per meal? What are the ingredients? Did I miss this from the article?
    - ctdonath 13y ago
      Check my http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com for starters. Google "frugal living" etc too.
jeffdavis 13y ago
Traditionally, when I hear about eating cheaply, I think "rice and beans". So I'm a little surprised to see those absent. Comments?
- mortenjorck 13y ago
  Funny, I actually just had that for dinner tonight. Trader Joe's instant jasmine rice, organic black beans, cherry tomatoes from the local farmers' market. Surprisingly cheap, easy, and delicious. I don't think a $30/week grocery budget is unreasonable at all, with a bit of ingenuity (and, critically, proximity to the aforementioned vendors; food deserts turn this whole thing on its head).
  - auctiontheory 13y ago
    The cherry tomatoes were cheap? You must not go the same farmer's markets that I do. On a per-calorie basis, almost all fresh fruits and vegetables are insanely expensive - someone on $30/week could perhaps afford an occasional banana. Recently my local Trader Joe's was selling onions at $1.09 (or was it $1.19?) per onion. Per onion!
  - 001sky 13y ago
    Wal-mart and TJs are non-representative locations for resuplly for your average person, tho. While it might not seem like it, both are quite selective on locations. For example, if you are 20 miles from an interstate, a major freeway, etc. You will (generally) not find a Wall-Mart. Trader Joes is not even in all of the "NFL" cities, as some are not large enough markets. TLDR, heaven forbid you are rural poor.
- mixmastamyk 13y ago
  I believe most North Americans are unaware of the beneficial properties of that combo.
- neltnerb 13y ago
  He has dried chickpeas and lentils, both of which are beans. Rice can be substituted for pasta with some cost inefficiency as they are both basically straight carbs. So, the majority of the nutritional content of his purchase is essentially rice and beans.
SteveGerencser 13y ago
Many many years ago as a new parent recently laid off we went on the 'food stamp program'. They really were little pieces of paper back then. I ate better for those 7 weeks than I had all my adult life to that point. And it was years before I was able to eat that well again. The system is great for what it tries to do, help people in need. But in my opinion we have gone far too far in trying to remove the 'stigma' of being on aid. Instead of heading in to town to collect our stamps you get an EBT card with money automatically added to your account each month. It's too easy to take the money. When we were on aid we needed it. But having to use those colored pieces of paper in line at the grocery store while everyone else watched was a huge motivator to get out and get a job.
- damncabbage 13y ago
  I ate better for those 7 weeks than I had all my adult life to that point. I'd suggest that today's "food stamps" don't cover as much as they used to. The article does a good job of showing how little nutritious food the handouts can buy. Instead of heading in to town to collect our stamps... Which costs money, particularly if you have to live a fair way outside out of town. Because you're poor. But having to use those colored pieces of paper in line at the grocery store while everyone else watched was a huge motivator to get out and get a job. People are trying. Pull your head out and look at the economy. You may be fine; plenty aren't, and are stuck in a rut where they can't get out. I know arguing with you is useless, but it's this "I worked hard, I got mine, so fuck you" attitude that's making everything worse for the poor. Have some empathy.
  - jrockway 13y ago
    The post you're replying to never said "I worked hard, I got mine, so fuck you". Perhaps you're projecting.
  - SteveGerencser 13y ago
    Without going in to a very long detailed family history, I do have 2 sisters that have basically worked less than 20% of their entire adult life. Between them they have 8 kids and 5 baby daddys. They do very well living on 'aid'. One of them is in Fort Meyers "on vacation" right now. For every person trying hard and working to improve their life, there is usually a matching person not giving a damn and enjoying the freedom that not having to work gives them. Do they live in a nice house and drive a nice car? Nope. But they live as well as any college student in any fair sized college town, and had Playstations and X-Boxes long before I did. But thanks for projecting 'your' issues on me. I never once said I got mine so fuck you. Not even close to that.
dnccrfctyq 13y ago
If you really want to eat cheaply, I suspect the trick is to go to "ethnic" groceries. I remember a reddit post about Paraguyuan meals that cost very little, I would suspect Indian-style veggie meals would also be reasonably cheap.
smsm42 13y ago
This page: http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=1269 http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=1269 outlines SNAP benefits which currently are $200 for single person, or $6.45 per day, or $45 a week. Why does it say $31.50 in the article? Also, there are other food programs where he lives (assuming it's indeed Boston): http://www.massresources.org/food.html http://www.massresources.org/food.html
thomasz 13y ago
While there is nothing inherently wrong with experiments like that, there should be no mistake that "taking the SNAP challenge" does not give you a deep understanding about the condition of being poor. Living by $4.50 a day for a week with a seven figure bank account, a nice car and a house in an upscale neighborhood makes you a tourist. I just don't understand the rationale behind this. It's not like there is a big misunderstanding about the poor living an awesome life. What's missing is the slightest shred of empathy for them. But she didn't understand, she just smiled and held my hand. Rent a flat above a shop, cut your hair and get a job. Smoke some fags and play some pool, pretend you never went to school. But still you'll never get it right, cos when you're laid in bed at night, watching roaches climb the wall, if you call your Dad he could stop it all. -- Pulp, Common People
- nonchalance 13y ago
  It serves a specific, seemingly opposed purpose: to prove that there exist food choices that allow people to subsist on SNAP. This anecdote will be cited in the future for showing that there are 'many choices' for food
- malkia 13y ago
  There is hidden cost in being poor: You don't have a car, or money for gas - so you don't have access to cheaper stores. Simple as that. Did he account for it?
  - rodrodrod 13y ago
    He does mention in another post: "To be clear, I don’t mean to trivialize anyone else’s experience or claim mine as an authentic representation of what food insecurity looks like." I'm pretty sure he's well aware of all the luxuries he has at his disposal that others who rely on food stamps don't. He's not shooting for an authentic representation because he just can't. Even if he were to give away all of his wealth, he'd still have many luxuries (such as friends and family to look after him) that some folks in dire situations don't. This isn't to say that there isn't insight to be gained from running this experiment, though.
littletables 13y ago
Yes he should do this for a month, and he should try it as a woman. You can't buy tampons with food stamps. I tried to survive with food stamps for a while when I lived on the streets as a teen. It was impractical for actually supplementing my survival. When you have nowhere to live, you have nowhere to cook.
visakanv 13y ago
Somebody on Quora once wrote beautifully about how it's impossible for the rich to ever understand what it's like to be truly, horribly poor- because there is no escape. There is no safety. The writer described how, even when he was in dire straits, at the back of his mind he knew that he could count on maybe extended family or something or someone to pull him out of trouble. The poor have no such privilege. True despair means being truly, completely cut off. So there's really very little a rich person can do to walk in the shoes of a poor person- because even if say, Bill Gates gave away ALL his fortune and got himself into crippling debt or something- at least some people will recognize that he's Bill Gates, and treat him differently for it. No simple solutions to offer here, just saying dis shit is complex.
- nodata 13y ago
  Link?
- jbert 13y ago
  > Somebody on Quora once wrote beautifully about how it's impossible for the rich to ever understand what it's like to be truly, horribly poor- because there is no escape. There is no safety. Jarvis Cocker wrote quite a good song in that vein: http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/pulp/commonpeople.html http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/pulp/commonpeople.html
  - shimfish 13y ago
    Incidentally, I really like William Shatner's cover. It brings out the contempt in the lyrics. And it rocks. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ainyK6fXku0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ainyK6fXku0
- Jach 13y ago
  In agreement with "dis shit is complex", I think the statement that rich people can never understand is too narrow to be true, because it ignores the rich people who came up from humble beginnings and moved up a class or two. There are a lot of those people in the programming profession -- perhaps it's because 'at the back of their mind, they can count on their intellect getting them through it all eventually'. If one accepts that there's a correlation between intelligence and income, then many poor people probably don't even have the hope that they can learn how to do a professional trade and get out of their situation that way. I'd rather see more money pumped into brain enhancement than to pay bureaucrats to come up with 'new' ways to fix the problem that eventually just boil down to giving the poor more money.
malkia 13y ago
I've read this some time ago, and although I did not remembered all the details - something stuck in me - that being poor is not something easily emulated, or experimented. Here is the article (don't know much about the guy that wrote it, political orientation or so, but it's an eye opener) - http://blumenauer.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1495 http://blumenauer.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&tas... One thing that stuck with me was the "car" situation. I didn't drive a car because of my choice (not money), i live in LA, but when our son was born I had to take driving lessons. It kind went well for us, since we can go now to Costco more often, than Whole Foods across the street. Also cutting down to paying taxis, or waiting too much for the bus has a benefit (if only LA's transit, or Santa Monica's one was a bit better).
carlob 13y ago
Slightly off topic. I was once told panera always has to show a full stock of every type of bread until closing hour. This means a large quantity of bread gets discarded at the end of the day just because a half empty shelf looks bad. I was provided this information by a girl who volunteered at a soup kitchen. She told me they often harvested this source of still perfectly good bread. I never checked independently, so if anyone has any idea this is false please let me know.
- michaelt 13y ago
  If Panera's corporate website is to be believed, they've been donating unsold goods since they were founded in 1988, most recently with their 'Day-End Dough-Nation' program.
- ctdonath 13y ago
  Panera's "DoughNation" program gives away those leftovers. Any suitable charity can sign up. Every Sunday I pick up hundreds of dollars worth, taking it to a "food pantry" for giveaway the next day. One store can give away a quarter million dollars of bread annually.
motters 13y ago
I assume that if things keep going the way that they have been in the last five years then food stamps will also be coming to the UK. As I see it it's a method used by politicians to prevent the poor from participating in the wider economy, by ensuring that they may only have access to politically approved resources.
- repsilat 13y ago
  I take it you're in favour of "just give them cash" programs? That people should be able to decide for themselves what to spend their money on? That's a position I can respect (if not entirely agree with), but I wonder how consistently you apply it. What do you think about childcare subsidies? If a government gives poorer parents a rebate or a discount (functionally identical to a voucher) on care services or education, is this patronising because the government isn't trusting them to spend the money wisely? Does this infringe upon their agency, or cost them essential self-respect?
rorrr2 13y ago
Getting a minimum wage job would instantly up your budget from $31.50/week to $320/week ($282.75 take home after taxes), and even more if you're willing to work more than 40 hours. If you are incapable of getting a minimum wage job, you are either lazy or disabled or mentally ill. Heck, I know disabled people working for much more than minimum wage.
- kaonashi 13y ago
  Involuntary unemployment is at 7%; it's a macro issue.
  - rorrr2 13y ago
    Are you saying there are no jobs? I just looked up on craigslist, and there are tons of postings for unskilled jobs, such as delivery, servers, greeters, waiters, busboys, hosts, runners, coat checkers, etc. If you have any skills, there are even more options.
    - thenomad 13y ago
      "There are jobs available" != "There are enough jobs for everyone".
      - rorrr2 13y ago
        If these jobs are always available, that's exactly what it means. If your talking points were true, there would be no job postings in such numbers. In fact, there's a shortage of unskilled labor, particularly in farming, where they need harvesters, pickers, pruners, packers and can't find nearly enough. http://goldrushcam.com/sierrasuntimes/index.php/news/mariposa-daily-news-2013/158-september/10017-us-senator-dianne-feinstein-urges-ice-to-focus-on-criminals http://goldrushcam.com/sierrasuntimes/index.php/news/maripos... Think about $300K jobs - there definitely aren't enough for everyone, but they do exist. Do you see many 300K job postings? Nope, they get taken so fast, there's no need to post them.
tomjen3 13y ago
Many of the comments here are just to complain that this does not correctly account for how poor people live and then basically give him shit for it. Have you tried to live on SNAP when you don't have to? Though so, given the guy a break.
boomlinde 13y ago
What a disgusting way to try to draw attention to your company.
dbg31415 13y ago
A lot of poor are... blah blah blah. Look, not saying it's easy to be poor. Just saying the Panera CEO is doing this to raise awareness about the low minimum wage. He's incapable of living as a poor person, of course he has luxuries -- namely the knowledge of how to escape poverty. Do we need a raise in the minimum wage? Sure, I guess. But more we need to empower poor people with skills that build the confidence to get themselves out of being poor.
phamilton 13y ago
How much do people here spend on food each month? I have a family of 4 and budget $500 for groceries and personal care item plus $120 for eating out. Please respond to this thread with your household size and budget. For reference, max monthly SNAP allotment: Household of 1: $200 Household of 2: $367 Household of 3: $526 Household of 4: $668 Household of 5: $793 Household of 6: $952

88 points by weu 13y ago

I applied for it and got one of those EBT card. There's a food stamps office right in the financial aid building on my uni campus. So I got it while applying for financial aid. Fooze money:)

Cookingboy 13y ago

Really respect him for what he tried to do, but there may be a flaw in the logic behind competitions like this. He said with the 30 something dollars budget he was forced to drop items like milk and coffee, but for many items like that, they will last for more than a week (I certainly don't drink a gallon of milk a week). So their cost is distributed over more than just one week. A more realistic challenge would be given a weekly budget but make the challenge to last say.. a month or so. But for obvious reasons it won't be as easy to pull off :)

gscott 13y ago
Also when your poor you need to buy milk because cereal is cheap and filling. I spent $91 this week for groceries for 3 people this week and it will last. Cereal, 50% off meat, half off soups, and so on.
- jlgreco 13y ago
  Eh, I prefer cereal dry, particularly grapenuts. All cereal with milk tastes the same to me. A glass of water on the side takes care of dryness.
jared314 13y ago
A month would be more realistic, but i'm not sure you can replicate the real situation in a time-box. A single week, like any change in diet, would just show how difficult it is to change habits, and how well you can forestall your desires. A month would allow time to form new habits, but you can still wait out the time limit to indulge your cravings.

jared314 13y ago

Day 2 is already up: http://www.linkedin.com/today/post/article/20130914223744-25745675-snap-challenge-day-2 http://www.linkedin.com/today/post/article/20130914223744-25... I would have rather read this at the end of the challenge, so there would be some sort of perspective on things.

thejulielogan 13y ago
But there's something authentic about sharing things as you realize them. Less chance for editing. It's also going to give him an interesting POV on his own evolution and realizations.
fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
I like what he's written here in day 2. "The distinctive ripping sound of someone biting into a fresh apple; the maracas-like percussion produced by a canister of Planters’ peanuts; even the change in a person’s voice that occurs when they speak with a lifesaver in their mouth – I was hyper aware whenever those around me consumed. At about 6:25 p.m., I even broke down and paid 40 cents to a colleague for a small handful of peanuts, and soon after, handed over a dime to another for an Atomic Fireball. For those keeping score, I’m down to $5.05 remaining to supplement the groceries I bought at the start of the Challenge." It reminds me of a trip I took with some friends where we had planned all of our meals as military MRE's (Meals Ready to Eat). We figured that we were very clever for having the military do our nutritional research for us. After a few days of almost exclusively eating these wretched things, I found that I could smell cucumbers being sliced over a mile away. Obviously, things like bacon and hamburgers frying were much stronger even than the cucumbers. I had the same experience as Shalch describes that I found myself marking time until the next meal, and I imagine that I was getting a lot more calories than he is (I was probably burning more too), because we brought some extra food and coffee, and weren't limited by our budget.

peterwwillis 13y ago

"On Wednesday night, after a long work day, I got into my car" That's his first mistake. Many (most?) people on food stamps can't afford a car. When you have little money for food, and you just got off the late shift of your second job, you have an even longer trip to the store, costing you more money. Many of these people also may live in food deserts, where the most common type of store is a liquor store, followed maybe by a payday loan place and a gas station, or a bar. That's where I live anyway. The closest grocery store is a very poorly maintained Aldi, and some people I know take a cab there and back once a week so they don't have to spend an hour or more traveling by bus.

shitlord 13y ago
Just curious, where do you live? I ask because the only time I've ever had to take taxis constantly was when visiting NYC, and it still wasn't cheap (although, cheaper than a taxi to the airport 10 mins away).
- carlob 13y ago
  I'm curious as well: why did you take cabs constantly when visiting NYC? My take is that you enjoy the neighborhoods much more if you just walk, and when you just need to go from point A to point B fast, the subway works very well (with the exception of going from the museum mile to anywhere else).
  - shitlord 13y ago
    When I visited, it was freezing cold outside, and half the people in my group were drunk. We were really just trying to get from one party to another, which is why we decided to take a cab, because it would require minimal effort. Anyway, my point was that when you have a limit of about $30 per week for groceries, you probably can't afford to take a cab there and back.
- peterwwillis 13y ago
  Baltimore City. We don't have to take taxis constantly, but it can be a better choice than the alternatives if you don't have a car: 1. Do I walk the 45 minutes each way (carrying groceries on the way back) through dangerous neighborhoods and probably get mugged or worse? (Baltimore is among the 10 most dangerous cities in America) 2. If I have a bike with a basket, do I bike and take the same risk? (People get mugged off their bike frequently here) 3. Do I wait the 80-120 minutes round trip for the bus? (This is often preferable to walking the dangerous neighborhoods, not to mention you can put your bags down) 4. Do I take a taxi, once per week (or less if you buy in bulk) to the store to save time and hassle? The young women I know in the area who live in a food desert often take the taxi option as it's just less of a risk and they don't want to spend the time and hassle of other options. You spend more money to be safe and get things done after a long day of work.

mynameishere 13y ago

Sigh. Food stamps are properly called SNAP or "Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program". The name isn't a joke--they are supposed to be "supplemental", not an all-you-can-eat buffet. The reality is that they cause all kinds of abuses, some legal and some illegal. The CEO of Panera Bread is probably not an idiot, and is probably aware of this, so I think it would be best that we not take his pandering too seriously.

zirok 13y ago

These kinds of challenges are pointless. It's true that living on a food stamp budget is hard, but it's not impossible. The real trouble begins when you encounter unexpected costs. When you are living from hand to mouth you can't plan ahead for whatever mishap might happen, be it illness, a car crash or just about anything that might make your already tight budget nonexistent.

meowface 13y ago
You're right, though he is showing that in fact it's hard to get a full and balanced diet using just food stamps as an income. So he's contributing to your point, even if he's not going through a full "challenge" of forcing himself to spend no more than X amount in a month on bills/mainteinance/etc. It's hard to properly emulate what it's truly like to live in poverty.
iamshs 13y ago
True. Food can be managed by rationing and not indulging in pleasures, the problem exists beyond food. Unexpected illness, getting from one place to another by public transport, not tending to an illness, thinking about passing out on a bar of mars etc. Poverty makes you helpless.
rodrodrod 13y ago
I don't think the challenge is "what's it like to live as the average person who depends on food stamps" but rather "what's it like (even provided all of the other luxuries in my life) to feed myself for $30 a week". The guy is obviously smart enough to know that he can't properly simulate the former challenge, but if anything at least the latter challenge should shed some light on the difficulty of properly feeding yourself under such a budget.

sc68cal 13y ago

While reading this story, please keep this guide handy, which measures the political donations that his company makes: http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/summary.php?id=D000059478&cycle=A http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/summary.php?id=D000059478&cy... I should note that the latest Farm Bill attempted to decouple SNAP funds from the agriculture parts of the bill, which historically was the only way to protect SNAP benefits from being significantly slashed. http://www.forbes.com/sites/nadiaarumugam/2013/07/13/republicans-cut-food-stamps-from-farm-bill-whats-the-big-deal/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/nadiaarumugam/2013/07/13/republi... So, while this is a commendable action on his part, there are individuals inside his company funding candidates and a party that advocates elimination of the entire program, because of supposed moochers and "young bucks" who go and buy steaks, abusing the system. Perhaps he can lead by example and help change some attitudes inside his company. EDIT: The political donations are from individuals in the company, instead of from a PAC the company controls. There are however, other organizations that Panera may be a part of (The Chamber of Commerce comes to mind) that also have poured a lot of money into Republican coffers.

jamesaguilar 13y ago
Ten thousand dollars per year is negligible, especially since almost half of it has gone to dems. They probably resisted the change you mentioned. If there's any doubt that your comment is talking about a non-issue, it's also worth mentioning that all those contributions are from individuals, who he is legally unable to influence. This nit doesn't even qualify as microscopic. It'd be better if you just skipped picking it. Edit: re: your edit, why would you criticize them over organizations they may be a part of?
- jlgreco 13y ago
  > criticize them over organizations they may be a part of It is the classic HN desire to be contrarian reaching new lows.
  - jamesaguilar 13y ago
    If you can't tell someone why they're wrong, you can't win, right? That seems to be the rule here, even when someone is doing something eminently sensible and helpful like trying to see things from a different perspective (in whatever limited way that might be possible).

jmtame 13y ago

For $3 a day you can eat (relatively) healthy food and only shop once or twice a week: http://www.miketuritzin.com/writing/eating-healthily-for-3-a-day http://www.miketuritzin.com/writing/eating-healthily-for-3-a... I've tried this for a few months. It's hard to do just the rice and beans. We modified it by adding salsa, shredded cheese, and tortilla shells to make burritos out of everything. It's probably an extra $20-$30 per month to do that.

ctdonath 13y ago
A LOT of people do very well on $1/meal or less. It's basic frugality.
- jmtame 13y ago
  $1 per meal? What are the ingredients? Did I miss this from the article?
  - ctdonath 13y ago
    Check my http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com for starters. Google "frugal living" etc too.

jeffdavis 13y ago

Traditionally, when I hear about eating cheaply, I think "rice and beans". So I'm a little surprised to see those absent. Comments?

mortenjorck 13y ago
Funny, I actually just had that for dinner tonight. Trader Joe's instant jasmine rice, organic black beans, cherry tomatoes from the local farmers' market. Surprisingly cheap, easy, and delicious. I don't think a $30/week grocery budget is unreasonable at all, with a bit of ingenuity (and, critically, proximity to the aforementioned vendors; food deserts turn this whole thing on its head).
- auctiontheory 13y ago
  The cherry tomatoes were cheap? You must not go the same farmer's markets that I do. On a per-calorie basis, almost all fresh fruits and vegetables are insanely expensive - someone on $30/week could perhaps afford an occasional banana. Recently my local Trader Joe's was selling onions at $1.09 (or was it $1.19?) per onion. Per onion!
- 001sky 13y ago
  Wal-mart and TJs are non-representative locations for resuplly for your average person, tho. While it might not seem like it, both are quite selective on locations. For example, if you are 20 miles from an interstate, a major freeway, etc. You will (generally) not find a Wall-Mart. Trader Joes is not even in all of the "NFL" cities, as some are not large enough markets. TLDR, heaven forbid you are rural poor.
mixmastamyk 13y ago
I believe most North Americans are unaware of the beneficial properties of that combo.
neltnerb 13y ago
He has dried chickpeas and lentils, both of which are beans. Rice can be substituted for pasta with some cost inefficiency as they are both basically straight carbs. So, the majority of the nutritional content of his purchase is essentially rice and beans.

SteveGerencser 13y ago

Many many years ago as a new parent recently laid off we went on the 'food stamp program'. They really were little pieces of paper back then. I ate better for those 7 weeks than I had all my adult life to that point. And it was years before I was able to eat that well again. The system is great for what it tries to do, help people in need. But in my opinion we have gone far too far in trying to remove the 'stigma' of being on aid. Instead of heading in to town to collect our stamps you get an EBT card with money automatically added to your account each month. It's too easy to take the money. When we were on aid we needed it. But having to use those colored pieces of paper in line at the grocery store while everyone else watched was a huge motivator to get out and get a job.

damncabbage 13y ago
I ate better for those 7 weeks than I had all my adult life to that point. I'd suggest that today's "food stamps" don't cover as much as they used to. The article does a good job of showing how little nutritious food the handouts can buy. Instead of heading in to town to collect our stamps... Which costs money, particularly if you have to live a fair way outside out of town. Because you're poor. But having to use those colored pieces of paper in line at the grocery store while everyone else watched was a huge motivator to get out and get a job. People are trying. Pull your head out and look at the economy. You may be fine; plenty aren't, and are stuck in a rut where they can't get out. I know arguing with you is useless, but it's this "I worked hard, I got mine, so fuck you" attitude that's making everything worse for the poor. Have some empathy.
- jrockway 13y ago
  The post you're replying to never said "I worked hard, I got mine, so fuck you". Perhaps you're projecting.
- SteveGerencser 13y ago
  Without going in to a very long detailed family history, I do have 2 sisters that have basically worked less than 20% of their entire adult life. Between them they have 8 kids and 5 baby daddys. They do very well living on 'aid'. One of them is in Fort Meyers "on vacation" right now. For every person trying hard and working to improve their life, there is usually a matching person not giving a damn and enjoying the freedom that not having to work gives them. Do they live in a nice house and drive a nice car? Nope. But they live as well as any college student in any fair sized college town, and had Playstations and X-Boxes long before I did. But thanks for projecting 'your' issues on me. I never once said I got mine so fuck you. Not even close to that.

dnccrfctyq 13y ago

If you really want to eat cheaply, I suspect the trick is to go to "ethnic" groceries. I remember a reddit post about Paraguyuan meals that cost very little, I would suspect Indian-style veggie meals would also be reasonably cheap.

smsm42 13y ago

This page: http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=1269 http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=1269 outlines SNAP benefits which currently are $200 for single person, or $6.45 per day, or $45 a week. Why does it say $31.50 in the article? Also, there are other food programs where he lives (assuming it's indeed Boston): http://www.massresources.org/food.html http://www.massresources.org/food.html

thomasz 13y ago

While there is nothing inherently wrong with experiments like that, there should be no mistake that "taking the SNAP challenge" does not give you a deep understanding about the condition of being poor. Living by $4.50 a day for a week with a seven figure bank account, a nice car and a house in an upscale neighborhood makes you a tourist. I just don't understand the rationale behind this. It's not like there is a big misunderstanding about the poor living an awesome life. What's missing is the slightest shred of empathy for them. But she didn't understand, she just smiled and held my hand. Rent a flat above a shop, cut your hair and get a job. Smoke some fags and play some pool, pretend you never went to school. But still you'll never get it right, cos when you're laid in bed at night, watching roaches climb the wall, if you call your Dad he could stop it all. -- Pulp, Common People

nonchalance 13y ago
It serves a specific, seemingly opposed purpose: to prove that there exist food choices that allow people to subsist on SNAP. This anecdote will be cited in the future for showing that there are 'many choices' for food
malkia 13y ago
There is hidden cost in being poor: You don't have a car, or money for gas - so you don't have access to cheaper stores. Simple as that. Did he account for it?
- rodrodrod 13y ago
  He does mention in another post: "To be clear, I don’t mean to trivialize anyone else’s experience or claim mine as an authentic representation of what food insecurity looks like." I'm pretty sure he's well aware of all the luxuries he has at his disposal that others who rely on food stamps don't. He's not shooting for an authentic representation because he just can't. Even if he were to give away all of his wealth, he'd still have many luxuries (such as friends and family to look after him) that some folks in dire situations don't. This isn't to say that there isn't insight to be gained from running this experiment, though.

littletables 13y ago

Yes he should do this for a month, and he should try it as a woman. You can't buy tampons with food stamps. I tried to survive with food stamps for a while when I lived on the streets as a teen. It was impractical for actually supplementing my survival. When you have nowhere to live, you have nowhere to cook.

visakanv 13y ago

Somebody on Quora once wrote beautifully about how it's impossible for the rich to ever understand what it's like to be truly, horribly poor- because there is no escape. There is no safety. The writer described how, even when he was in dire straits, at the back of his mind he knew that he could count on maybe extended family or something or someone to pull him out of trouble. The poor have no such privilege. True despair means being truly, completely cut off. So there's really very little a rich person can do to walk in the shoes of a poor person- because even if say, Bill Gates gave away ALL his fortune and got himself into crippling debt or something- at least some people will recognize that he's Bill Gates, and treat him differently for it. No simple solutions to offer here, just saying dis shit is complex.

nodata 13y ago
Link?
jbert 13y ago
> Somebody on Quora once wrote beautifully about how it's impossible for the rich to ever understand what it's like to be truly, horribly poor- because there is no escape. There is no safety. Jarvis Cocker wrote quite a good song in that vein: http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/pulp/commonpeople.html http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/pulp/commonpeople.html
- shimfish 13y ago
  Incidentally, I really like William Shatner's cover. It brings out the contempt in the lyrics. And it rocks. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ainyK6fXku0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ainyK6fXku0
Jach 13y ago
In agreement with "dis shit is complex", I think the statement that rich people can never understand is too narrow to be true, because it ignores the rich people who came up from humble beginnings and moved up a class or two. There are a lot of those people in the programming profession -- perhaps it's because 'at the back of their mind, they can count on their intellect getting them through it all eventually'. If one accepts that there's a correlation between intelligence and income, then many poor people probably don't even have the hope that they can learn how to do a professional trade and get out of their situation that way. I'd rather see more money pumped into brain enhancement than to pay bureaucrats to come up with 'new' ways to fix the problem that eventually just boil down to giving the poor more money.

malkia 13y ago

I've read this some time ago, and although I did not remembered all the details - something stuck in me - that being poor is not something easily emulated, or experimented. Here is the article (don't know much about the guy that wrote it, political orientation or so, but it's an eye opener) - http://blumenauer.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1495 http://blumenauer.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&tas... One thing that stuck with me was the "car" situation. I didn't drive a car because of my choice (not money), i live in LA, but when our son was born I had to take driving lessons. It kind went well for us, since we can go now to Costco more often, than Whole Foods across the street. Also cutting down to paying taxis, or waiting too much for the bus has a benefit (if only LA's transit, or Santa Monica's one was a bit better).

carlob 13y ago

Slightly off topic. I was once told panera always has to show a full stock of every type of bread until closing hour. This means a large quantity of bread gets discarded at the end of the day just because a half empty shelf looks bad. I was provided this information by a girl who volunteered at a soup kitchen. She told me they often harvested this source of still perfectly good bread. I never checked independently, so if anyone has any idea this is false please let me know.

michaelt 13y ago
If Panera's corporate website is to be believed, they've been donating unsold goods since they were founded in 1988, most recently with their 'Day-End Dough-Nation' program.
ctdonath 13y ago
Panera's "DoughNation" program gives away those leftovers. Any suitable charity can sign up. Every Sunday I pick up hundreds of dollars worth, taking it to a "food pantry" for giveaway the next day. One store can give away a quarter million dollars of bread annually.

motters 13y ago

I assume that if things keep going the way that they have been in the last five years then food stamps will also be coming to the UK. As I see it it's a method used by politicians to prevent the poor from participating in the wider economy, by ensuring that they may only have access to politically approved resources.

repsilat 13y ago
I take it you're in favour of "just give them cash" programs? That people should be able to decide for themselves what to spend their money on? That's a position I can respect (if not entirely agree with), but I wonder how consistently you apply it. What do you think about childcare subsidies? If a government gives poorer parents a rebate or a discount (functionally identical to a voucher) on care services or education, is this patronising because the government isn't trusting them to spend the money wisely? Does this infringe upon their agency, or cost them essential self-respect?

rorrr2 13y ago

Getting a minimum wage job would instantly up your budget from $31.50/week to $320/week ($282.75 take home after taxes), and even more if you're willing to work more than 40 hours. If you are incapable of getting a minimum wage job, you are either lazy or disabled or mentally ill. Heck, I know disabled people working for much more than minimum wage.

kaonashi 13y ago
Involuntary unemployment is at 7%; it's a macro issue.
- rorrr2 13y ago
  Are you saying there are no jobs? I just looked up on craigslist, and there are tons of postings for unskilled jobs, such as delivery, servers, greeters, waiters, busboys, hosts, runners, coat checkers, etc. If you have any skills, there are even more options.
  - thenomad 13y ago
    "There are jobs available" != "There are enough jobs for everyone".
    - rorrr2 13y ago
      If these jobs are always available, that's exactly what it means. If your talking points were true, there would be no job postings in such numbers. In fact, there's a shortage of unskilled labor, particularly in farming, where they need harvesters, pickers, pruners, packers and can't find nearly enough. http://goldrushcam.com/sierrasuntimes/index.php/news/mariposa-daily-news-2013/158-september/10017-us-senator-dianne-feinstein-urges-ice-to-focus-on-criminals http://goldrushcam.com/sierrasuntimes/index.php/news/maripos... Think about $300K jobs - there definitely aren't enough for everyone, but they do exist. Do you see many 300K job postings? Nope, they get taken so fast, there's no need to post them.

tomjen3 13y ago

Many of the comments here are just to complain that this does not correctly account for how poor people live and then basically give him shit for it. Have you tried to live on SNAP when you don't have to? Though so, given the guy a break.

boomlinde 13y ago

What a disgusting way to try to draw attention to your company.

dbg31415 13y ago

A lot of poor are... blah blah blah. Look, not saying it's easy to be poor. Just saying the Panera CEO is doing this to raise awareness about the low minimum wage. He's incapable of living as a poor person, of course he has luxuries -- namely the knowledge of how to escape poverty. Do we need a raise in the minimum wage? Sure, I guess. But more we need to empower poor people with skills that build the confidence to get themselves out of being poor.

phamilton 13y ago

How much do people here spend on food each month? I have a family of 4 and budget $500 for groceries and personal care item plus $120 for eating out. Please respond to this thread with your household size and budget. For reference, max monthly SNAP allotment: Household of 1: $200 Household of 2: $367 Household of 3: $526 Household of 4: $668 Household of 5: $793 Household of 6: $952