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Silicon Valley. If you're moving somewhere, why waste time on a city that is distant second, in terms of startup ecosystems? It's not like Boston or NYC are si

Silicon Valley. If you're moving somewhere, why waste time on a city that is distant second, in terms of startup ecosystems? It's not like Boston or NYC are significantly cheaper than the valley.

jrkelly 13y ago
Biotech ecosystem is better in BOS and maybe finance-related stuff in NYC, but otherwise I agree with you.
- w1ntermute 13y ago
  > Biotech ecosystem is better in BOS That's debatable. I think Boston and the Valley are about the same (with the Valley maybe a little ahead) for biotech. Either way, Boston (as a city) is depressing as fuck, so I would avoid it like the plague.
  - nikomen 13y ago
    Why is Boston depressing?
- refurb 13y ago
  BOS has certainly made huge gains in biotech. BOS has more mid-size biotechs than SFO, but SFO has an edge in tiny, less than 10 person start-ups (but not by much). The biggest difference between BOS and SFO are the big biotechs. SFO has one (GNE), while BOS many.
kintamanimatt 13y ago
One of the big ones is availability and cost of labor, and how much your neighbors are competing for that same labor pool.
seiji 13y ago
My short list of pro-NYC (and thereby anti-SF) points: There's plenty of tech stuff and tech people in NYC. That little kickstarter site isn't in san mateo after all. Your new best friend digital ocean isn't making white house rooms across from twitter. etsy is allowed to be as dumb as it wants. In NYC you have non-scary transit running 24 hours that'll take you home because everybody is within walking distance of a metro station (and not just to a parking lot where you pick up your car then drive another 30 minutes home while tired at 2am). Population. SF: 800k (bay area entire: 7 million, but over 40+ miles) NYC: 8 million. In NYC you have lots more people within transit range making people-involved things like meetings, dating, and varied social contexts immensely easier (and more interesting, exciting, unexpected, varied, ...). NYC has its street people population under control so it's less scary walking around fighting off beggars are street pooers. NYC's parks are kinda great. and best of all, no Karl.
- khuey 13y ago
  Karl is the best part! I agree with most of your other pro-NYC points though (and I live in SF).
  - wallflower 13y ago
    OT: "Adrift" - a love letter to Karl the Fog http://vimeo.com/69445362 http://vimeo.com/69445362
- ohWhatever 13y ago
  Your practical, working knowledge of the NYC subway system is way off the mark. If I had to make an estimate, I'd say you've never been required to depend on the subway beyond the splendid realms of Wall Street and Midtown. Maybe a small tidbit of Williamsburg too. Even in those parts Taxi cabs and car service reign supreme, especially when drunk at 2AM (the social context of dating). That said, I'd like to point out that every city has it's own learning curve, and there's no real way to be honest, and make promises to transplants that any given city's streets will be paved with gold. (...unless, of course, you literally pave them with gold yourself)
  - seiji 13y ago
    Well, living near transit can be a goal or not. If one decides to not live near a station, that's one's own predicament. (as for my living credentials go, I've lived in Astoria, Harlem, Jersey City, Long Island City, UWS, ... it's not a park place penthouse, but it is a non-bank-breaking life.) NYC lets you live near a station much easier than in SF with its linear (in-city) one-line system with a total of seven entire usable city stops. I think I can destroy your argument with: how many daily private bus services do companies run in NYC vs SF for employees to get from Where They Want To Live to their prescribed daytime slavery zones?
- karlmdavis 13y ago
  Hey wait, what're you on about? I'm Karl, and I AM in New York City. Am I being voted out?
asanwal 13y ago
Very true as this research suggests. "The Next Silicon Valley is Probably Silicon Valley" http://www.cbinsights.com/blog/trends/silicon-valley-financing-comparison http://www.cbinsights.com/blog/trends/silicon-valley-financi... Interestingly, NY is the one market taking some share from SV but the gap remains massive.
nickkthequick 13y ago
It's possible to, you know, not actually like Silicon Valley. That seems like a pretty good reason to live elsewhere. Personally, I don't care for SF and it's surrounding cities. They feel small to me (they are, compared to NYC), I haven't been nearly as intrigued by the culture as I am in NYC or in Boston, I hate cars, I need the seasons, it's far from the rest of my family, etc.. This makes me very interested in ecosystems outside of Silicon Valley.
- codemac 13y ago
  > It's possible to, you know, not actually like Silicon Valley. Well sure, but the goals of the article were in terms of startup ecosystems. I don't think anyone says it's impossible to dislike the bay area (so much to love, so much to hate). The whole article had nothing to do with "liking" a city.
  - nickkthequick 13y ago
    Sure, but it also explicitly compared two cities, Boston and New York. Parent threw in a new area, Silicon Valley, which indisputably has a stronger tech ecosystem. My point is that, comparing 2nd and 3rd place in tech ecosystem is still interesting if other aspects of cities are important to you, and they are in my case. A similar article comparing Silicon Valley to New York wouldn't be as interesting to me because I refuse to move to Silicon Valley.
    - daniel-cussen 13y ago
      I thought #2 was Tel Aviv.
angersock 13y ago
Hey! Hey you! Do you have a family, care about home ownership, need good healthcare, want a stable fallback economy, and want reasonable taxes? Want to not have to choose? Come to Texas!
- SwellJoe 13y ago
  Shh! Stop telling people about Texas!
  - angersock 13y ago
    Gentrification in Houston screwed my buddy out of a house...it's getting hard to find a 2,000 sq. ft. two story for less than two hundred thousand near the city center. ;)
    - enraged_camel 13y ago
      I'm considering moving to Houston early next year. Are there any resources I can use to educate myself about the different parts of the city in terms of quality and cost of living?
      - angersock 13y ago
        So, Padmapper is a useful tool, but you'll get the most mileage out of HAR (http://www.har.com/ http://www.har.com/) for finding a place to live. Generally, Midtown and the Heights are nice places to move to, although the southwest area near the 610 loop is somewhat undervalued and pretty decent to live at. Optimize for living near easy access to either the light-rail, bus-stops, or the highways--59 and 45 are the big ones, the 610 loop is as well. Don't live in the Galleria area--too expensive and the traffic is shitty. Basically, living nearish to downtown or the universities is a good idea. You can get very cheap places if you move outside Beltway 8, but the commute time sucks rocks. Inside 610 is the best if you can swing it. If you find yourself in town, drop me a line, and we can grab beers--I'll link you in with some of my startup folks here.
im_a_lawyer 13y ago
>> It's not like Boston or NYC are significantly cheaper than the valley. Yes they are plus some of us really don't want to live in a place with a 3:1 gender ratio.
- ceph_ 13y ago
  Where is this mythical place with a 3:1 gender ratio? http://www.maletofemaleratio.com/wiki/California-CA/San_Francisco.htm http://www.maletofemaleratio.com/wiki/California-CA/San_Fran...
  - im_a_lawyer 13y ago
    not even close to accurate and I was talking about silicon valley in general.
    - ceph_ 13y ago
      Census data isn't accurate? If you want to make ridiculous claims, you're going to get called out. Cite a source.
      - im_a_lawyer 13y ago
        I don't believe that site is even using census data or at least not in the correct way. Ratio should be separated by age groups. Counting > 60 yr olds is a mistake because at that point women outnumber men 3:1 at least. San Jose has been forever in the headlines as one of the worst cities for men to date, how is this news to you just now? http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/weird/San-Jose-Looking-More-Like-Man-Jose.html http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/weird/San-Jose-Looking-More-L... San Jose >> The U.S. Department of the Obvious finds that there are 117 men for every 100 women in the age range of 20 to 44 years old. >> Mountain View has a ratio of 125 to 100.
pingswept 13y ago
Housing in Boston is substantially cheaper than Silicon Valley. Anecdotally, when I moved from Silicon Valley to Boston, my rent stayed the same price and but I got to live in twice as big a house. Non-anecdotally, look at these real estate price maps. Boston (Middlesex County, north side of the city): http://www.trulia.com/home_prices/Massachusetts/Middlesex_County-heat_map/ http://www.trulia.com/home_prices/Massachusetts/Middlesex_Co... SF (San Mateo County, south of SF): http://www.trulia.com/home_prices/California/San_Mateo_County-heat_map/ http://www.trulia.com/home_prices/California/San_Mateo_Count... You can buy a relatively large house within a few miles of downtown Boston for around $400k. I don't think that's possible in SF.
rdl 13y ago
I'm in Silicon Valley, but really dislike Silicon Valley, and looking at how to be in Seattle (or maybe Austin, or non-USA). (Silicon Valley still makes sense for the earliest stages, but I don't think I'd recommend people move here if they already have a going business, unlike 5 years ago.) I think in the past couple years, things like funding have become more global, and there's a strong case for having a small presence in SFBA and a larger presence in a place like Seattle, Austin, Boulder, or really anywhere with a concentration of talent for hiring. I'm hoping to check out some Asia/Pacific places in October/November, and Central/Eastern Europe around xmas.

Silicon Valley. If you're moving somewhere, why waste time on a city that is distant second, in terms of startup ecosystems? It's not like Boston or NYC are significantly cheaper than the valley.

jrkelly 13y ago

Biotech ecosystem is better in BOS and maybe finance-related stuff in NYC, but otherwise I agree with you.

w1ntermute 13y ago
> Biotech ecosystem is better in BOS That's debatable. I think Boston and the Valley are about the same (with the Valley maybe a little ahead) for biotech. Either way, Boston (as a city) is depressing as fuck, so I would avoid it like the plague.
- nikomen 13y ago
  Why is Boston depressing?
refurb 13y ago
BOS has certainly made huge gains in biotech. BOS has more mid-size biotechs than SFO, but SFO has an edge in tiny, less than 10 person start-ups (but not by much). The biggest difference between BOS and SFO are the big biotechs. SFO has one (GNE), while BOS many.

kintamanimatt 13y ago

One of the big ones is availability and cost of labor, and how much your neighbors are competing for that same labor pool.

seiji 13y ago

My short list of pro-NYC (and thereby anti-SF) points: There's plenty of tech stuff and tech people in NYC. That little kickstarter site isn't in san mateo after all. Your new best friend digital ocean isn't making white house rooms across from twitter. etsy is allowed to be as dumb as it wants. In NYC you have non-scary transit running 24 hours that'll take you home because everybody is within walking distance of a metro station (and not just to a parking lot where you pick up your car then drive another 30 minutes home while tired at 2am). Population. SF: 800k (bay area entire: 7 million, but over 40+ miles) NYC: 8 million. In NYC you have lots more people within transit range making people-involved things like meetings, dating, and varied social contexts immensely easier (and more interesting, exciting, unexpected, varied, ...). NYC has its street people population under control so it's less scary walking around fighting off beggars are street pooers. NYC's parks are kinda great. and best of all, no Karl.

khuey 13y ago
Karl is the best part! I agree with most of your other pro-NYC points though (and I live in SF).
- wallflower 13y ago
  OT: "Adrift" - a love letter to Karl the Fog http://vimeo.com/69445362 http://vimeo.com/69445362
ohWhatever 13y ago
Your practical, working knowledge of the NYC subway system is way off the mark. If I had to make an estimate, I'd say you've never been required to depend on the subway beyond the splendid realms of Wall Street and Midtown. Maybe a small tidbit of Williamsburg too. Even in those parts Taxi cabs and car service reign supreme, especially when drunk at 2AM (the social context of dating). That said, I'd like to point out that every city has it's own learning curve, and there's no real way to be honest, and make promises to transplants that any given city's streets will be paved with gold. (...unless, of course, you literally pave them with gold yourself)
- seiji 13y ago
  Well, living near transit can be a goal or not. If one decides to not live near a station, that's one's own predicament. (as for my living credentials go, I've lived in Astoria, Harlem, Jersey City, Long Island City, UWS, ... it's not a park place penthouse, but it is a non-bank-breaking life.) NYC lets you live near a station much easier than in SF with its linear (in-city) one-line system with a total of seven entire usable city stops. I think I can destroy your argument with: how many daily private bus services do companies run in NYC vs SF for employees to get from Where They Want To Live to their prescribed daytime slavery zones?
karlmdavis 13y ago
Hey wait, what're you on about? I'm Karl, and I AM in New York City. Am I being voted out?

asanwal 13y ago

Very true as this research suggests. "The Next Silicon Valley is Probably Silicon Valley" http://www.cbinsights.com/blog/trends/silicon-valley-financing-comparison http://www.cbinsights.com/blog/trends/silicon-valley-financi... Interestingly, NY is the one market taking some share from SV but the gap remains massive.

nickkthequick 13y ago

It's possible to, you know, not actually like Silicon Valley. That seems like a pretty good reason to live elsewhere. Personally, I don't care for SF and it's surrounding cities. They feel small to me (they are, compared to NYC), I haven't been nearly as intrigued by the culture as I am in NYC or in Boston, I hate cars, I need the seasons, it's far from the rest of my family, etc.. This makes me very interested in ecosystems outside of Silicon Valley.

codemac 13y ago
> It's possible to, you know, not actually like Silicon Valley. Well sure, but the goals of the article were in terms of startup ecosystems. I don't think anyone says it's impossible to dislike the bay area (so much to love, so much to hate). The whole article had nothing to do with "liking" a city.
- nickkthequick 13y ago
  Sure, but it also explicitly compared two cities, Boston and New York. Parent threw in a new area, Silicon Valley, which indisputably has a stronger tech ecosystem. My point is that, comparing 2nd and 3rd place in tech ecosystem is still interesting if other aspects of cities are important to you, and they are in my case. A similar article comparing Silicon Valley to New York wouldn't be as interesting to me because I refuse to move to Silicon Valley.
  - daniel-cussen 13y ago
    I thought #2 was Tel Aviv.

angersock 13y ago

Hey! Hey you! Do you have a family, care about home ownership, need good healthcare, want a stable fallback economy, and want reasonable taxes? Want to not have to choose? Come to Texas!

SwellJoe 13y ago
Shh! Stop telling people about Texas!
- angersock 13y ago
  Gentrification in Houston screwed my buddy out of a house...it's getting hard to find a 2,000 sq. ft. two story for less than two hundred thousand near the city center. ;)
  - enraged_camel 13y ago
    I'm considering moving to Houston early next year. Are there any resources I can use to educate myself about the different parts of the city in terms of quality and cost of living?
    - angersock 13y ago
      So, Padmapper is a useful tool, but you'll get the most mileage out of HAR (http://www.har.com/ http://www.har.com/) for finding a place to live. Generally, Midtown and the Heights are nice places to move to, although the southwest area near the 610 loop is somewhat undervalued and pretty decent to live at. Optimize for living near easy access to either the light-rail, bus-stops, or the highways--59 and 45 are the big ones, the 610 loop is as well. Don't live in the Galleria area--too expensive and the traffic is shitty. Basically, living nearish to downtown or the universities is a good idea. You can get very cheap places if you move outside Beltway 8, but the commute time sucks rocks. Inside 610 is the best if you can swing it. If you find yourself in town, drop me a line, and we can grab beers--I'll link you in with some of my startup folks here.

im_a_lawyer 13y ago

>> It's not like Boston or NYC are significantly cheaper than the valley. Yes they are plus some of us really don't want to live in a place with a 3:1 gender ratio.

ceph_ 13y ago
Where is this mythical place with a 3:1 gender ratio? http://www.maletofemaleratio.com/wiki/California-CA/San_Francisco.htm http://www.maletofemaleratio.com/wiki/California-CA/San_Fran...
- im_a_lawyer 13y ago
  not even close to accurate and I was talking about silicon valley in general.
  - ceph_ 13y ago
    Census data isn't accurate? If you want to make ridiculous claims, you're going to get called out. Cite a source.
    - im_a_lawyer 13y ago
      I don't believe that site is even using census data or at least not in the correct way. Ratio should be separated by age groups. Counting > 60 yr olds is a mistake because at that point women outnumber men 3:1 at least. San Jose has been forever in the headlines as one of the worst cities for men to date, how is this news to you just now? http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/weird/San-Jose-Looking-More-Like-Man-Jose.html http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/weird/San-Jose-Looking-More-L... San Jose >> The U.S. Department of the Obvious finds that there are 117 men for every 100 women in the age range of 20 to 44 years old. >> Mountain View has a ratio of 125 to 100.

pingswept 13y ago

Housing in Boston is substantially cheaper than Silicon Valley. Anecdotally, when I moved from Silicon Valley to Boston, my rent stayed the same price and but I got to live in twice as big a house. Non-anecdotally, look at these real estate price maps. Boston (Middlesex County, north side of the city): http://www.trulia.com/home_prices/Massachusetts/Middlesex_County-heat_map/ http://www.trulia.com/home_prices/Massachusetts/Middlesex_Co... SF (San Mateo County, south of SF): http://www.trulia.com/home_prices/California/San_Mateo_County-heat_map/ http://www.trulia.com/home_prices/California/San_Mateo_Count... You can buy a relatively large house within a few miles of downtown Boston for around $400k. I don't think that's possible in SF.

rdl 13y ago

I'm in Silicon Valley, but really dislike Silicon Valley, and looking at how to be in Seattle (or maybe Austin, or non-USA). (Silicon Valley still makes sense for the earliest stages, but I don't think I'd recommend people move here if they already have a going business, unlike 5 years ago.) I think in the past couple years, things like funding have become more global, and there's a strong case for having a small presence in SFBA and a larger presence in a place like Seattle, Austin, Boulder, or really anywhere with a concentration of talent for hiring. I'm hoping to check out some Asia/Pacific places in October/November, and Central/Eastern Europe around xmas.