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Prepare for a long response (my apologies for monopolizing this space) All good points. Let me address each point individually: Engine: Agree that offroaders

Prepare for a long response (my apologies for monopolizing this space) All good points. Let me address each point individually: Engine: Agree that offroaders like power; for the 3,000 – 3,200 lb offroader we are building, the BMW 335d offers substantial power. If customers want more power, and some will, there are plenty of tuner options available. The BMW engine is more expensive than other options, and it may be somewhat more challenging to take apart if you’re not use to it. But since all LM customers will build their own vehicle alongside an expert, and will take part in builder training – each customer will know the engine and the vehicle. Disagree that offroaders don’t care about clean diesel. If the proposal was to force enthusiasts to choose between performance and a “green” ride, I would agree with you; they will choose performance. But this is not an ultimatum. Enthusiasts want both – performance and sustainability. I say sustainability and not “green” purposely. Yes, we are reducing particulate emissions (this is what is usually meant by “green"); by lightweighting the vehicles and using the most efficient powertrain for the purpose of each segment, we are indeed “green”. But by also using an engine that is engineered for reliability (both BMW & diesel have superior reliability and sustainability) the need to replace parts is decreased and therefore more sustainable. There are other factors to consider, but these are the main points. In places like Arizona we have found that off-roaders are one of the primary groups to take care of the land. They want to preserve the area they so enjoy. This frame of mind opens them up to more sustainable options, like clean diesel – as long as they don’t have to give up performance, they are happy. And if more efficient sustainable options are not a demand of the market, but a mere tertiary benefit – Local Motors is happy because we are lending a hand in reducing our nations dependence on foreign oil and eventually, fossil fuels in general. Reduction of our reliance on foreign oil and fossil fuels is one of our pillars, which Local Motors is founded on. If we can make significant strides to promote a “no compromise” mentality, one that celebrates not only power but also efficiency in such a performance-driven market, then I would say we are proving ourselves just as well as Tesla or any of the others. Design: The Rally Fighter is a dual ride-height design. If you want it lower, it can be lowered. For off-roading you will want it higher so you can utilize all 18” of wheel travel. The Rally Fighter can jump – and that’s a big part of the fun. Remember that the stability of the vehicle has more to do with the weight displacement than the height of the vehicle. The engine is set low, lowering the point of gravity to the extent possible while maintaining ground clearance. The wide stance of the Rally Fighter also promotes stability. You are right that an off-roader should look mean – and the posted renderings are shiny and unmean looking (sorry!) We will muddy it up, and it will look more at home at that point. The stance and size make it aggressive in my eyes, but this is subjective. Price Point: $50k is not cheap, this we know. We will build less expensive vehicles for less expensive segments. We will also build Baja-ready Rally Fighters which will cost more than $50k. The Bowler Nemesis is a comparable vehicle in many senses, though we still see a few advantages with the Rally Fighter: The nemesis weighs about 1,000lbs more than the RF, and it costs over $130,000. Also the Nemesis runs on E85 – and there are exactly zero E85 refueling stations in Arizona. Building cars is not a new science and neither is building relatively efficient cars; we see great gains in efficiency simply by lightweighting. As a know-how kind of car guy, if you set your mind to it you could clearly build cars. Bringing desirable cars to market in a cost effective manner through a sustainable business model IS a new science – this is what Local Motors brings to the table. Still curious to know where you are located. Would love to open the conversation to the type of sports car you desire.

vaksel 17y ago
I'm pretty sure that there is almost 0 aftermarket support for the X6/335d, at least at this point. But thats not the point, the point is that BMW Aftermarket parts cost an arm and a leg. Take the BMW 335i for example...you can spend close to $2,000 for a Dinan exhaust, only to get a 6hp gain. Thats just not something thats viable for most people, especially offroaders who'd end up denting the thing after a few outings. And chances are the cost will be even higher, since the run would be much smaller. Building a vehicle alongside an expert, for most people would mean standing behind the expert's back and looking. The whole idea that someone will pick up how to work on the car is luducrous. For one, the expert will be working on the car using a lift, and all the necessary tools, while the customer would be working on the floor of their garage with half the tools missing. Adding a complicated engine to the mix, that few people are experts on, outside of the dealership, just seems unnecessary. I mean lets face it, the engine choice is just a gimmick. You are forgetting the 3rd part, price. Yes, people would pick the green engine if it produced the same performance as a regular engine.(Although I'm not that sure about the offroader crowd), but not when they need to pay 4-5K more for the car because of it. The usual enthusiast equation is: "Performance, Reliability, Price, choose 2". Gas mileage isn't really part of the equation. Yes the need to replace parts, may be decreased due to reliability, but when you do need to replace parts, you'll be paying an arm and a leg, because its a BMW. Jumping may be a part of the fun, but I just don't see people jumping in a 50K car. A dedicated off roader, you built in your garage for 10K...sure, a 50K car? No way. Yes lowering the point of gravity will help with stability, but I wouldn't count on this thing to be highway safe. Which kinda makes me doubt that this thing will end up being road legal. The stance and size are aggressive, but the concept itself, makes it look like one of those lifted compact car pics you see floating around on the net. + the front end kinda says that someone spent all their effort developing the side profile, and then threw together a quick front end. The lights for example, look like fog lights, and not standalone headlamps. 50K is cheap depending on what segment you attack. The problem is that the segment you are attacking is focused mainly on the 20 year old Broncos and Wranglers. 50K for a sporty looking car is no problem, and will make it much easier to sell the cars. For every offroader guy who wants a 50K offroader, you'll have a thousand sports car guys who want a 50K sports car. The thing is, that with sports cars, you can pretty much getaway with simply building a beautiful car. Its pretty easy to make a car perform, since the formula has been known for a while. And its much easier to make it be reliable, compared to an offroader that gets taken for jumps. Getting a bunch of people bitching that your car blew the shocks after 3 months is not good for business. Doesn't matter if you don't have warranty, and that everyone knows that if you take the car offroad, it won't last as long. The thing is that the Nemesis has pedigree, the Bowler team has won numerous races. The guys at top gear have creamed their pants about the Bowler. The Rally Fighter is pretty much an unknown, with no pedigree, and questionable looks. When you buy a Bowler, the person knows, I can now win this thing. Unless you can arrange the Rally Fighter to enter into a rally, and win, it'll be a problem. And even then, how many people compete in Rallies? You can't base your business on a few hundred people. Yes building other cars down the road is a good idea, my point is that for a first car, you need something that'll bring attention to your brand. And the offroader segment is just too small and too outside the mainstream to do it. If your first car is a 50K sports car, you'll pretty much expose your brand to the entire country. You'll be covered by all publications. If your first car is a 50K Offroader, you'll just be covered in the 4-5 offroader mags. The whole offroader concept may have some legs later on, when you have a line up of other cars. But building it as a first car, is equivalent to corporate suicide. Take the Bowler for example, great offroader, but its pretty much unknown outside of the offroader community, and even there, most people have no idea what it is. The whole idea of having people work on the car is not cost efficient. You need to do the same thing as the Catarham guys, give the option to just ship the parts, and give the option to buy a pre-assembled car from a dealer. Thats the only way to go mainstream. As far as location, I'm in NJ. As far as a sports car I desire that's not out there. Well lets see: the car would need to be a 3 door coupe(Like the Integra/RSX/Supra/300ZX). Powertrain would include a twin turbo engine, AWD and a 6 speed manual. All the important settings should be adjustable from the cockpit. Power selector: 3 stages - Daily Driver - 200hp(optimized for max mpg), Sport - 350hp, Race - 500hp. Do this by modifying the boost controller and fuel maps. Drivetrain selector: Auto - Acts as RWD until it starts slipping, at which point starts shifting power to the front wheels. Manual - give the user a way to manually choose the setup. If I want to have 100% RWD, it should let me do that. Suspension selector: 3 Settings: Daily Driver, Sport, Race, that adjusts the shock stiffness/ride height based on driver preference. Extra features: HIDs, LSD, Traction Control(that can be 100% turned off), Digital Gauge Cluster(fully modifiable/wi-fi capable) Something like that would fly of the shelves at 50K. Probably at 100K even. Just as long as the car looks good. As long as you have the looks, people will be willing to give the car a chance.

vaksel 17y ago

I'm pretty sure that there is almost 0 aftermarket support for the X6/335d, at least at this point. But thats not the point, the point is that BMW Aftermarket parts cost an arm and a leg. Take the BMW 335i for example...you can spend close to $2,000 for a Dinan exhaust, only to get a 6hp gain. Thats just not something thats viable for most people, especially offroaders who'd end up denting the thing after a few outings. And chances are the cost will be even higher, since the run would be much smaller. Building a vehicle alongside an expert, for most people would mean standing behind the expert's back and looking. The whole idea that someone will pick up how to work on the car is luducrous. For one, the expert will be working on the car using a lift, and all the necessary tools, while the customer would be working on the floor of their garage with half the tools missing. Adding a complicated engine to the mix, that few people are experts on, outside of the dealership, just seems unnecessary. I mean lets face it, the engine choice is just a gimmick. You are forgetting the 3rd part, price. Yes, people would pick the green engine if it produced the same performance as a regular engine.(Although I'm not that sure about the offroader crowd), but not when they need to pay 4-5K more for the car because of it. The usual enthusiast equation is: "Performance, Reliability, Price, choose 2". Gas mileage isn't really part of the equation. Yes the need to replace parts, may be decreased due to reliability, but when you do need to replace parts, you'll be paying an arm and a leg, because its a BMW. Jumping may be a part of the fun, but I just don't see people jumping in a 50K car. A dedicated off roader, you built in your garage for 10K...sure, a 50K car? No way. Yes lowering the point of gravity will help with stability, but I wouldn't count on this thing to be highway safe. Which kinda makes me doubt that this thing will end up being road legal. The stance and size are aggressive, but the concept itself, makes it look like one of those lifted compact car pics you see floating around on the net. + the front end kinda says that someone spent all their effort developing the side profile, and then threw together a quick front end. The lights for example, look like fog lights, and not standalone headlamps. 50K is cheap depending on what segment you attack. The problem is that the segment you are attacking is focused mainly on the 20 year old Broncos and Wranglers. 50K for a sporty looking car is no problem, and will make it much easier to sell the cars. For every offroader guy who wants a 50K offroader, you'll have a thousand sports car guys who want a 50K sports car. The thing is, that with sports cars, you can pretty much getaway with simply building a beautiful car. Its pretty easy to make a car perform, since the formula has been known for a while. And its much easier to make it be reliable, compared to an offroader that gets taken for jumps. Getting a bunch of people bitching that your car blew the shocks after 3 months is not good for business. Doesn't matter if you don't have warranty, and that everyone knows that if you take the car offroad, it won't last as long. The thing is that the Nemesis has pedigree, the Bowler team has won numerous races. The guys at top gear have creamed their pants about the Bowler. The Rally Fighter is pretty much an unknown, with no pedigree, and questionable looks. When you buy a Bowler, the person knows, I can now win this thing. Unless you can arrange the Rally Fighter to enter into a rally, and win, it'll be a problem. And even then, how many people compete in Rallies? You can't base your business on a few hundred people. Yes building other cars down the road is a good idea, my point is that for a first car, you need something that'll bring attention to your brand. And the offroader segment is just too small and too outside the mainstream to do it. If your first car is a 50K sports car, you'll pretty much expose your brand to the entire country. You'll be covered by all publications. If your first car is a 50K Offroader, you'll just be covered in the 4-5 offroader mags. The whole offroader concept may have some legs later on, when you have a line up of other cars. But building it as a first car, is equivalent to corporate suicide. Take the Bowler for example, great offroader, but its pretty much unknown outside of the offroader community, and even there, most people have no idea what it is. The whole idea of having people work on the car is not cost efficient. You need to do the same thing as the Catarham guys, give the option to just ship the parts, and give the option to buy a pre-assembled car from a dealer. Thats the only way to go mainstream. As far as location, I'm in NJ. As far as a sports car I desire that's not out there. Well lets see: the car would need to be a 3 door coupe(Like the Integra/RSX/Supra/300ZX). Powertrain would include a twin turbo engine, AWD and a 6 speed manual. All the important settings should be adjustable from the cockpit. Power selector: 3 stages - Daily Driver - 200hp(optimized for max mpg), Sport - 350hp, Race - 500hp. Do this by modifying the boost controller and fuel maps. Drivetrain selector: Auto - Acts as RWD until it starts slipping, at which point starts shifting power to the front wheels. Manual - give the user a way to manually choose the setup. If I want to have 100% RWD, it should let me do that. Suspension selector: 3 Settings: Daily Driver, Sport, Race, that adjusts the shock stiffness/ride height based on driver preference. Extra features: HIDs, LSD, Traction Control(that can be 100% turned off), Digital Gauge Cluster(fully modifiable/wi-fi capable) Something like that would fly of the shelves at 50K. Probably at 100K even. Just as long as the car looks good. As long as you have the looks, people will be willing to give the car a chance.