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That's EXACTLY right... Houston is all about what I would call "Rationality". It cuts the other way as well. I live in Houston. I'm one of the pricks driving

by bilbo0s 13y ago

That's EXACTLY right... Houston is all about what I would call "Rationality". It cuts the other way as well. I live in Houston. I'm one of the pricks driving all of the prices up inside the 610. I live behind the gates you see when you drive down Sunset. Recently, I went to lunch with an acquaintance who is black. We went to a pretty nice place in Third Ward, where we met up with his friends. Being the frank [person] that I am, I professed to surprise that there would be such an upscale restaurant in Third Ward. (It had prices to match.) At which point they explained to me that it's common knowledge that if black people go out to eat in Houston, they should do so in Third Ward. So as to avoid... let's just say... "added ingredients" in their meals. What struck me as I contemplated the conversation on the way home from lunch... was that very intelligent and successful blacks believed that the integrity of their food would be compromised if they did not eat in Third Ward. Now I realize that the reality is that this belief probably has a good basis in fact, so I completely understand their tendency to eat at restaurants with open kitchens, or at restaurants in Third Ward. And that was the rub, there IS a sort of self-segregation that was going on... but it's all based on decisions that are completely rational for the individual. In the single case of black eating habits for instance, if a few knuckleheads in Houston are more likely than they are in other cities to ... say ... add bodily fluids to the food of black patrons... then blacks will tend to eat at their own restaurants. Are the restaurants racist? Not really. They just happened to hire a nugget head. Probably, quite unknowingly. Are the blacks racist? Not really. They just don't want to eat food that is potentially contaminated with bodily fluids. Quite understandably. So everyone can act in an honest, forthright, and rational manner... and the results can still seem pretty ugly. I know Houston pretty well... and I think that is the sort of thing that is coming out in these Yelp reviews. The ugly ways that race and rationality intersect in an economy or society.

lambda 13y ago
> So everyone can act in an honest, forthright, and rational manner... and the results can still seem pretty ugly Sorry, what? "Everyone can act in an honest, forthright, and rational way"? The people adding "added ingredients" to their meals are acting in an honest, forthright, and rational way? This isn't "rationality", it's acting like a racist asshole. Now, it's not surprising if black people avoid places that have a bunch of racist assholes. But that doesn't mean that what's going on is self-segregation; that's overt, racist segregation on the part of the knuckleheads who are spitting in their food. I'm really having a hard time following what you're trying to say, because it feels like you're trying to say "well, that's what happens when everyone acts rationally", and I'm not really seeing that, I'm seeing a lot of people acting in a racist manner.
- Retric 13y ago
  I think the point is even if 9/10 places to eat where safe people would still avoid them simply because of 3rd party's that are not working at those safe places. Aka the risk is somewhat independent of the restaurants actions.
  - lambda 13y ago
    From the above post: > Are the restaurants racist? Not really. They just happened to hire a nugget head. Probably, quite unknowingly. He seems to be implying that "restaurants" (I guess he means the cooks, and owners who don't stop the cooks) who spit in black people's burgers aren't racist. Even if, as you say in trying to give him the benefit of the doubt, he's talking about third parties who aren't working there, the restaurant has a responsibility to not allow patrons to disrupt other patron's meal. If someone were to spit in my food, and the restaurant didn't kick them out, I'd sure as hell be pissed off at that restaurant. Racism (and other forms of discrimination based on who you are rather than what you do) is insidious and evil, and needs to be stood up against, not just passively saying "well, that's what they do, what are you going to do." It is fundamentally wrong to treat a person as a category, rather than an individual.
    - bilbo0s 13y ago
      Guy... look... the owner may not even be around when a cook or waiter compromises someone's food. How can you say that the owner is a bigot simply because he or she has bigots working for him or her. I've run into MANY bigots in San Francisco for instance. Many work at Apple, Facebook, Google and Yahoo. Does that, then, imply that the senior executives at these firms are bigots? At some point, you need to trust your employees. You only know what you see, and you can't see everything. This does not make you a racist... it makes you a human.
  - bilbo0s 13y ago
    That's right. The presence of what may be single knucklehead, in Houston, drives blacks to patronize their own restaurants to the exclusion of others. (I do realize that the practice of compromising the integrity of the food of black restaurant goers is probably a pretty widespread practice, and not the work of a "single knucklehead".) My only point is... I doubt, in a lot of these cases, that the restaurant owner him or herself is racist.
justin66 13y ago
> Are the restaurants racist? Not really. They just happened to hire a nugget head. Probably, quite unknowingly. > Are the blacks racist? Not really. They just don't want to eat food that is potentially contaminated with bodily fluids. Quite understandably. Weird phrasing at best. Under no set of circumstances would it be valid to characterize the blacks you describe as "racist." Unless you've really, really internalized the Romney "corporations are people, my friend" thing, discriminating against a restaurant cannot be racist.

by bilbo0s 13y ago

lambda 13y ago

> So everyone can act in an honest, forthright, and rational manner... and the results can still seem pretty ugly Sorry, what? "Everyone can act in an honest, forthright, and rational way"? The people adding "added ingredients" to their meals are acting in an honest, forthright, and rational way? This isn't "rationality", it's acting like a racist asshole. Now, it's not surprising if black people avoid places that have a bunch of racist assholes. But that doesn't mean that what's going on is self-segregation; that's overt, racist segregation on the part of the knuckleheads who are spitting in their food. I'm really having a hard time following what you're trying to say, because it feels like you're trying to say "well, that's what happens when everyone acts rationally", and I'm not really seeing that, I'm seeing a lot of people acting in a racist manner.

Retric 13y ago
I think the point is even if 9/10 places to eat where safe people would still avoid them simply because of 3rd party's that are not working at those safe places. Aka the risk is somewhat independent of the restaurants actions.
- lambda 13y ago
  From the above post: > Are the restaurants racist? Not really. They just happened to hire a nugget head. Probably, quite unknowingly. He seems to be implying that "restaurants" (I guess he means the cooks, and owners who don't stop the cooks) who spit in black people's burgers aren't racist. Even if, as you say in trying to give him the benefit of the doubt, he's talking about third parties who aren't working there, the restaurant has a responsibility to not allow patrons to disrupt other patron's meal. If someone were to spit in my food, and the restaurant didn't kick them out, I'd sure as hell be pissed off at that restaurant. Racism (and other forms of discrimination based on who you are rather than what you do) is insidious and evil, and needs to be stood up against, not just passively saying "well, that's what they do, what are you going to do." It is fundamentally wrong to treat a person as a category, rather than an individual.
  - bilbo0s 13y ago
    Guy... look... the owner may not even be around when a cook or waiter compromises someone's food. How can you say that the owner is a bigot simply because he or she has bigots working for him or her. I've run into MANY bigots in San Francisco for instance. Many work at Apple, Facebook, Google and Yahoo. Does that, then, imply that the senior executives at these firms are bigots? At some point, you need to trust your employees. You only know what you see, and you can't see everything. This does not make you a racist... it makes you a human.
- bilbo0s 13y ago
  That's right. The presence of what may be single knucklehead, in Houston, drives blacks to patronize their own restaurants to the exclusion of others. (I do realize that the practice of compromising the integrity of the food of black restaurant goers is probably a pretty widespread practice, and not the work of a "single knucklehead".) My only point is... I doubt, in a lot of these cases, that the restaurant owner him or herself is racist.

justin66 13y ago

> Are the restaurants racist? Not really. They just happened to hire a nugget head. Probably, quite unknowingly. > Are the blacks racist? Not really. They just don't want to eat food that is potentially contaminated with bodily fluids. Quite understandably. Weird phrasing at best. Under no set of circumstances would it be valid to characterize the blacks you describe as "racist." Unless you've really, really internalized the Romney "corporations are people, my friend" thing, discriminating against a restaurant cannot be racist.