5 ms·

The Microsoft services are becoming a very tempting alternative to Google Apps. Mostly I'm getting sick of Google randomly dropping services I use and re-desig

The Microsoft services are becoming a very tempting alternative to Google Apps. Mostly I'm getting sick of Google randomly dropping services I use and re-designing every 3 months. I was looking at fastmail.fm for my mail hosting, but now I'll have to check out outlook.com as well.

larrik 13y ago
Whenever I think Microsoft's online offerings look good, I remember this article: http://wmpoweruser.com/watch-what-you-store-on-skydriveyou-may-lose-your-microsoft-life/ http://wmpoweruser.com/watch-what-you-store-on-skydriveyou-m... Of course, the NSA revelations make it hardly matter anyway.
- devx 13y ago
  You don't need to go that far back in time: Microsoft helped the NSA to circumvent its encryption to address concerns that the agency would be unable to intercept web chats on the new Outlook.com portal; The agency already had pre-encryption stage access to email on Outlook.com, including Hotmail; http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/11/microsoft-nsa-collaboration-user-data http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/11/microsoft-nsa-c...
  - harrytuttle 13y ago
    Diddums. Most of it goes over SMTP in plain text anyway. If you want secure communications, you don't use email or you use something you control.
    - toyg 13y ago
      There has long been an expectation of formalized privacy in emails, which was asserted in numerous laws -- basically extending the concept of regular mail to the electronic counterpart. It's like saying "most regular envelopes go through the Post Office using plain vans, if you want secure communication you send it in an armoured van staffed by personally-vetted Congolese mercenaries". Nobody touches Post Office vans not because they're hard to assault (they're not), but because they're shielded with thick walls of law. I know that smtp is more like sending postcards and yadda yadda yadda, but that's not what most legal systems have assumed for 20 years, nor what the public at large expects.
      - harrytuttle 13y ago
        I agree with you but the expectation always needs to match reality. Many civilization had fallen to this sort of ignorance.
        Dylan16807 13y ago
        The expectation and reality should both be "they can view the mail at certain stages but if they get caught they're getting the book thrown at them, and the incentives are aligned that breaches will be reported".
  - larrik 13y ago
    True, but the NSA snooping is different than Microsoft employees looking at your pictures to make sure they are "family friendly." I hope.
  - unicornporn 13y ago
    But but but... They saaaay they will be nice. https://pay.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1m926j/we_are_the_outlookcom_team_ask_us_anything/cc6yjrt https://pay.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1m926j/we_are_the_out...
- Pxtl 13y ago
  ... thanks for the heads up. I was actually starting to like SkyDrive after I got a free winphone and started using the MS ecosystem. Now, knowing that MS is prone to shutting down the whole account for perceived infractions? I have family photos that aren't backed up anywhere else there. That's not cool. Honestly, even if this policy was reserved for kiddy-porn and crack-dealers, the "boom your stuff is gone no review no discussion" approach to it means the possibility of a false-positive is scary.
  - cbhl 13y ago
    > Now, knowing that MS is prone to shutting down the whole account for perceived infractions? IIRC, Google is just as prone to doing this too.
  - harrytuttle 13y ago
    Err if you put all your eggs in one basket then you're just being an idiot. Get a domain, forward it to service X and Y, back it up regularly, sorted. This applies to ALL services be they free or paid. Saying that I've had the same hotmail/msn/live/outlook account since 1997 without a problem.
  - hanley 13y ago
    > I have family photos that aren't backed up anywhere else there. Obviously those need to be backed up. Problem solved.
- sitharus 13y ago
  At least that reduces my options back to one again! I hadn't seen that before, thanks.
- napoleond 13y ago
  Use PGP. With your existing email address, and without the fuss: https://parley.co https://parley.co (I'm one of the people building it, and now that outlook.com supports IMAP, we support outlook.com ;)
obituary_latte 13y ago
I haven't used Google Apps beyond a little testing, but our small shop did move to outlook.com (office365) about a year ago. Main selling points were archiving/litigation hold, included licenses for Office, and the familiarity of clients with the Microsoft name. The experience has been as I expected it would be: quite painful. We have not gone an entire month without service disruption. There have been problems with the service getting blacklisted. Support is, well, Microsoft support -- untimely, disconnected, uncaring, and when phones are involved very difficult to understand. Anecdotal, sure, but according to the various forum/community postings I've come across trying to resolve various issues, not uncommon. Caveat emptor. edit: turns out what I was talking about (office365) and what the OP is talking about (outlook.com) aren't the same thing. Apologies.
- sitharus 13y ago
  My work also uses office365, but I don't recall too many problems with it. There were some migration troubles, but not as bad as our previous setup. However, we do have 500+ employees and are a large business for the country we're located in, so probably have a bit of weight when it comes to getting support.
- harrytuttle 13y ago
  Office 365 support has been ok to us so far (unlike partner support which is shit). Had a couple of hours here and there down but compared to the cost of self-hosting exchange, it's pretty damn good.
  - obituary_latte 13y ago
    I'd imagine so... It would take 3, maybe 4 times my current pay before I even though about attempting to self-host exchange. Nice to hear you've had good experience. Perhaps I just got unlucky and my experience isn't indicative of the overall performance of the service (and maybe it'll go better for me next time).
- footpath 13y ago
  I thought that the mail hosting package that comes with Office 365 is called Exchange Online? It uses Outlook Web App for webmail access and is a totally different thing from the free Outlook.com.
djim 13y ago
These IMAP integrations, like TripIt & Slice, have been a part of Gmail for a long time now (since Gmail has supported IMAP for years). This is Microsoft playing catch-up. But yea, I hear you..
cheez 13y ago
fastmail is great. Their UI is so easy to use when you need to use it (I use IMAP).

larrik 13y ago

Whenever I think Microsoft's online offerings look good, I remember this article: http://wmpoweruser.com/watch-what-you-store-on-skydriveyou-may-lose-your-microsoft-life/ http://wmpoweruser.com/watch-what-you-store-on-skydriveyou-m... Of course, the NSA revelations make it hardly matter anyway.

devx 13y ago
You don't need to go that far back in time: Microsoft helped the NSA to circumvent its encryption to address concerns that the agency would be unable to intercept web chats on the new Outlook.com portal; The agency already had pre-encryption stage access to email on Outlook.com, including Hotmail; http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/11/microsoft-nsa-collaboration-user-data http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/11/microsoft-nsa-c...
- harrytuttle 13y ago
  Diddums. Most of it goes over SMTP in plain text anyway. If you want secure communications, you don't use email or you use something you control.
  - toyg 13y ago
    There has long been an expectation of formalized privacy in emails, which was asserted in numerous laws -- basically extending the concept of regular mail to the electronic counterpart. It's like saying "most regular envelopes go through the Post Office using plain vans, if you want secure communication you send it in an armoured van staffed by personally-vetted Congolese mercenaries". Nobody touches Post Office vans not because they're hard to assault (they're not), but because they're shielded with thick walls of law. I know that smtp is more like sending postcards and yadda yadda yadda, but that's not what most legal systems have assumed for 20 years, nor what the public at large expects.
    - harrytuttle 13y ago
      I agree with you but the expectation always needs to match reality. Many civilization had fallen to this sort of ignorance.
      - Dylan16807 13y ago
        The expectation and reality should both be "they can view the mail at certain stages but if they get caught they're getting the book thrown at them, and the incentives are aligned that breaches will be reported".
- larrik 13y ago
  True, but the NSA snooping is different than Microsoft employees looking at your pictures to make sure they are "family friendly." I hope.
- unicornporn 13y ago
  But but but... They saaaay they will be nice. https://pay.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1m926j/we_are_the_outlookcom_team_ask_us_anything/cc6yjrt https://pay.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1m926j/we_are_the_out...
Pxtl 13y ago
... thanks for the heads up. I was actually starting to like SkyDrive after I got a free winphone and started using the MS ecosystem. Now, knowing that MS is prone to shutting down the whole account for perceived infractions? I have family photos that aren't backed up anywhere else there. That's not cool. Honestly, even if this policy was reserved for kiddy-porn and crack-dealers, the "boom your stuff is gone no review no discussion" approach to it means the possibility of a false-positive is scary.
- cbhl 13y ago
  > Now, knowing that MS is prone to shutting down the whole account for perceived infractions? IIRC, Google is just as prone to doing this too.
- harrytuttle 13y ago
  Err if you put all your eggs in one basket then you're just being an idiot. Get a domain, forward it to service X and Y, back it up regularly, sorted. This applies to ALL services be they free or paid. Saying that I've had the same hotmail/msn/live/outlook account since 1997 without a problem.
- hanley 13y ago
  > I have family photos that aren't backed up anywhere else there. Obviously those need to be backed up. Problem solved.
sitharus 13y ago
At least that reduces my options back to one again! I hadn't seen that before, thanks.
napoleond 13y ago
Use PGP. With your existing email address, and without the fuss: https://parley.co https://parley.co (I'm one of the people building it, and now that outlook.com supports IMAP, we support outlook.com ;)

obituary_latte 13y ago

I haven't used Google Apps beyond a little testing, but our small shop did move to outlook.com (office365) about a year ago. Main selling points were archiving/litigation hold, included licenses for Office, and the familiarity of clients with the Microsoft name. The experience has been as I expected it would be: quite painful. We have not gone an entire month without service disruption. There have been problems with the service getting blacklisted. Support is, well, Microsoft support -- untimely, disconnected, uncaring, and when phones are involved very difficult to understand. Anecdotal, sure, but according to the various forum/community postings I've come across trying to resolve various issues, not uncommon. Caveat emptor. edit: turns out what I was talking about (office365) and what the OP is talking about (outlook.com) aren't the same thing. Apologies.

sitharus 13y ago
My work also uses office365, but I don't recall too many problems with it. There were some migration troubles, but not as bad as our previous setup. However, we do have 500+ employees and are a large business for the country we're located in, so probably have a bit of weight when it comes to getting support.
harrytuttle 13y ago
Office 365 support has been ok to us so far (unlike partner support which is shit). Had a couple of hours here and there down but compared to the cost of self-hosting exchange, it's pretty damn good.
- obituary_latte 13y ago
  I'd imagine so... It would take 3, maybe 4 times my current pay before I even though about attempting to self-host exchange. Nice to hear you've had good experience. Perhaps I just got unlucky and my experience isn't indicative of the overall performance of the service (and maybe it'll go better for me next time).
footpath 13y ago
I thought that the mail hosting package that comes with Office 365 is called Exchange Online? It uses Outlook Web App for webmail access and is a totally different thing from the free Outlook.com.

djim 13y ago

These IMAP integrations, like TripIt & Slice, have been a part of Gmail for a long time now (since Gmail has supported IMAP for years). This is Microsoft playing catch-up. But yea, I hear you..

cheez 13y ago

fastmail is great. Their UI is so easy to use when you need to use it (I use IMAP).