7 ms·

5 Months After Switching to Colemak

30 points by MrGando 13y ago

thagat 13y ago
Great article, ¿What are you using to measure your WPM in colemak?
- MrGando 13y ago
  Hey there! I'm basically using Amphetype... it's OSS written in Python. You can feed it with text (like your favorite public domain novels in .txt, Sherlock Holmes is one of my favorites) and then it extracts lessons based on difficulty level. Cheers & glad you liked it!
bgar 13y ago
Switching does have its benefits but I'm afraid it'll be a pain to deal with it switching the vim keys around.
- MrGando 13y ago
  I was thinking about covering that topic. It's not that painful, I didn't have any problems on using Vim with colemak with only one alteration: inoremap lh <Esc> Before I used k-j, but the position of those in Colemak is 'e-n'... so it's totally unusable. I mean if you're typing 'entropy' it leaves insert mode, and you get mad :) Didn't take me more than a week to get used to 'e-n'.
- pcl 13y ago
  I'm a dvorak user, and I've never had a problem with vim navigation. I just use the regular keys for it, and it seems to work out fine.
  - MrGando 13y ago
    Same here in Colemak, I saw a lot of people taking the wrong approach and designing complicated .vimrcs. I think that's not great, specially if you have to do some pair programming with QWERTY users.
- semisight 13y ago
  I never felt pained on switching layouts. If this makes any sense: learning the muscle memory for Colemak almost seems to be on a lower "level" than vim (to me), so I kept hitting 'i' and 'a' and so on without even noticing.
  - MrGando 13y ago
    Makes sense to me, I felt the exact same way. I think that it's better to let the muscle memory of Colemak to develop and you will eventually get used to vim. When I use vim I'm constantly thinking about words, like 'ci' (change in) 'ya' (yank around) etc. So when you get your Colemak right vim is not a big hassle.
    - hadem 13y ago
      I do the same thing with Vim short cuts, think about their "meanings". I found it helped a lot! I'm curious about h, j, k, and l. Same story?
      - jvoorhis 13y ago
        When I switched to Dvorak, I adapted pretty quickly to vim. hjkl are effectively exploded across the keyboard, and I had to adjust to that, but adapting to the new locations for other commands was easier if I thought about the semantic meaning of the commands, and the keys themselves as abbreviations.
    - bgar 13y ago
      I just realized I tend to do the same thing, when I edit in vim I read the "phrases" I am typing, like ci" etc.
- rsaarelm 13y ago
  I don't find using the Colemak-shuffled hjkl comfortable, so I have `:set langmap=li,ko,hn,je,nh,ej,ik,ol,LI,KO,JE,EJ,IK,OL` in my .vimrc to make Vim usable for me on Colemak. Besides restoring the home row navigation, it moves the keys one key right into the qwerty jkl;, which is the neutral home row position. The problem with this is that langmap is a somewhat advanced option, and isn't supported by every Vim-like product, such as the Visual Studio Vim plugin. Shai Coleman had a really extensive Vim remapping setup, but he has since stopped using Vim: http://colemak.com/pub/vim/colemak.vim http://colemak.com/pub/vim/colemak.vim
chissock 13y ago
Very well written article; can you gauge the convenience on switching to colemak instead of dvorak?
- MrGando 13y ago
  Great question, Dvorak is awesome, but the 'great' thing about Colemak is that the symbols and numbers are unchanged (in contrast of Dvorak). So basically the learning curve from QWERTY, should be shorter, and simpler. Another personal thought, is that at least most of programming languages where made with QWERTY in mind, so the symbol usage ([], {}, ; etc) in programming languages is influenced by that too. A symptom of that is many foreign guys using the American QWERTY layout to code. Cheers :D
cecilpl 13y ago
I've been typing exclusively on Dvorak for 12 years, since I was about 16. Does colemak offer any significant advantages over dvorak that would make it worthwhile attempting to switch?
- MrGando 13y ago
  I would dare to say no, if you already know Dvorak then switching to Colemak doesn't offer a lot of advantage. There are some reports that say that Colemak is marginally better but IMHO they where not conclusive. Bottom line, both are well designed layouts (Dvorak by a human and Colemak by a computer) and substantially better than QWERTY.
- semisight 13y ago
  It does, to a Qwerty typist, or to one who switches between for whatever reason. Quite a few keys in Colemak are preserved between it and Qwerty (like zxcv), making it both easier to learn and easier to jump back and forth. Personally, when I play the occasional video game, I'll do so in Qwerty instead of redefining every key. For typing and programming (aka daily life), I use Colemak.
- SkyMarshal 13y ago
  The Colemak FAQ answers that: http://colemak.com/wiki/index.php?title=FAQ#What.27s_wrong_with_the_Dvorak_layout.3F http://colemak.com/wiki/index.php?title=FAQ#What.27s_wrong_w...
marcelo_lara 13y ago
How long does it take to reach around 40 – 50 words per minute ?
- MrGando 13y ago
  I wasn't very clear about it because it does really vary a lot. I've read of people reaching 40-50 in a week, for me it took me about 15 days. After that I went 'cold turkey' and dropped QWERTY, while doing that I think that in about a month and a half I reached ~70 WPM.
- semisight 13y ago
  In my experience it took around 1-2 months to become fully "fluent" in Colemak.
  - jvoorhis 13y ago
    It took me about 3 weeks to acclimate to Dvorak, but I actually used a copy of Mavis Beacon to help with the transition (no joke.) I mean 80wpm. It felt both faster and more comfortable after that.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
thatthatis 13y ago
Is there any quantified, credible (semi)scientific evidence that colemak or dvorak is actually faster/easier/better? I've seen lots of theoretical stuff, but mostly anecdote and/or poorly designed tests. Thanks.
- kzahel 13y ago
  They are definitely better, but not for the reason you might expect. The best part about having a non-qwerty keyboard layout is the frustration on peoples faces when they try to use your computer. Especially if it's a repeat performance as it is not the first time you've frustrated them with your keyboard layout!
  - daenney 13y ago
    I was hoping someone would bring this up. Having my machine with a Colemak layout is one of the best security measures out there.
  - MrGando 13y ago
    Yep, I agree. When I invite people home and leave my MacBook playing my music, there's always someone who want's to go to Youtube and switch my music... Colemak totally avoids that from happening.
- MrGando 13y ago
  There is some more serious research, the Colemak FAQ, refers to Carpalx (http://mkweb.bcgsc.ca/carpalx/?colemak http://mkweb.bcgsc.ca/carpalx/?colemak), there you can actually take a look at the several Dvorak layouts and QWERTY. I actually saw more discussions about this in the Colemak forum, but that was a long time ago.
- nether 13y ago
  I'm interested in what you consider "theoretical stuff" or "poorly designed tests." If metrics like number of words possible from the home row alone or total finger travel given some body of text do not satisfy you, then I doubt anything will. I will say one of the biggest misconceptions is that the Dvorak layout is for speed. I've known people who type 80+ WPM with two fingers on QWERTY. You can be fast on any layout, but Dvorak is way more comfortable. Once you can type faster than you can think of what to type, it doesn't really matter.
christiangenco 13y ago
I've tried switching to Colemak three times, and I just can't do it. Here's why: I can currently type 110-125 WPM on QWERTY, which I've projected would take upwards of a year to re-achieve on Colemak, which is a total no-brainer if I could reasonably expect positive long-term gains. However, from what I've read (and heard from friends on Colemak), switching back to QWERTY is painful, so my typing speed on anyone else's computer (which I realized, after trying to switch, I do fairly frequently) would go down to 30 at best. The primary argument for Colemak is that it reduces finger travel distance from the home row. But my fingers don't naturally fall precisely in a line: my left middle finger naturally drifts between the space of E and D, my middle and ring finger on my right hand drift up closer to I and O. Culturally, being on Colemak means the world is suddenly against you. It's like choosing to be a left-handed person in a right-handed world: vim keybindings don't make sense, applications and flash pages ignore your custom keyboard layout and switch you back to QWERTY, and every single keyboard|laptop|smartphone you buy for the rest of your life will require a certain amount of tweaking before it's maximally usable (think iPhone autocorrect). Keyboard layout hacking in general, however, is fantastic. Here's a few tweaks I've accumulated that have immediate benefits for little of the above downsides: 1. remap `caps lock` to `ESC`: goes without saying for vim, but extremely useful in other situations too (like playing starcraft and de-selecting units) 2. remap 1234567890 to !@#$%^&*(): as a programmer, I use these symbols far more often than I use the numbers. Switching to shift to numbers with symbols as default makes all the sense in the world. It no longer takes finger gymnastics to surround something in () or negate a term with !. 3. (optional) shift doubletap for caps lock: I missed caps lock after a while, so I brought it back with a double-tap of shift.
- tadfisher 13y ago
  Anecdotally, Android 4.2 and up comes with a Colemak layout that works with all of the bells & whistles, including swiping and autocorrect.
  - gregorycarter 13y ago
    Yes, this is right (on 4.3 at least). You can choose between QWERTY, QWERTZ, AZERTY, Dvorak and Colemak.
V-2 13y ago
I didn't find Colemak all that comfortable, but I experimented with carpalX and I found it very pleasant. Even if you are not curious about trying new keyboard layouts, the website is packed with very interesting theory and research: http://mkweb.bcgsc.ca/carpalx/ http://mkweb.bcgsc.ca/carpalx/
- V-2 13y ago
  I see now that MrGando posted that link already, I hadn't read all the comments before making mine. I second that recommendation anyhow
V-2 13y ago
One great feature of Colemak is the idea of mapping capslock (useless as it is) to backspace. Eg. it allows for quickly deleting last word with ctrl + capslock combo - one hand instead of both.
hetid 13y ago
No mention of Carpalx? http://mkweb.bcgsc.ca/carpalx/?full_optimization http://mkweb.bcgsc.ca/carpalx/?full_optimization If you're going to learn a new keyboard layout, why not make it the best?
- portmanteaufu 13y ago
  I'm in the process of learning Colemak now. I'd love to use QGMLWB, but I liked that I was able to use Colemak on my Macbook, Windows box and Android devices without having to install anything extra. I figured that the few extra efficiency points I lost by sticking with Colemak would be offset by its comparatively broad availability.
- MrGando 13y ago
  I did mention Carpalx, but not your exact link in another comment.
V-2 13y ago
Most of the keyboard layouts - alternative to QWERTY - are optimized for English. (QWERTY itself is not optimized for any human language in existence). It would be very interesting to see how well they work for other languages. Or to try developing a "compromise" layout, optimized for two (or more) different langauges at once and see whether it is at all possible to gain a significant advantage over QWERTY in those several languages at once...
- bjterry 13y ago
  It's likely that Colemak would be at least somewhat better for any European language if only because all of the vowels are under the home row (except U, which is under QWERTY's "I").
V-2 13y ago
Another interesting link: http://www.andong.co.uk/dvorak/ http://www.andong.co.uk/dvorak/ (an online analysis tool you can use to compare the efficiency of different layouts - including Colemak)
knightjp 13y ago
I've been using Colemak cold turkey for 6 months now and I still can't type properly to save my life. I barely make a proper sentence these days. I never had this problem when I was trying to learn Dvorak. It seem the hand alteration makes it easier and you more accurate.

30 points by MrGando 13y ago

thagat 13y ago

Great article, ¿What are you using to measure your WPM in colemak?

MrGando 13y ago
Hey there! I'm basically using Amphetype... it's OSS written in Python. You can feed it with text (like your favorite public domain novels in .txt, Sherlock Holmes is one of my favorites) and then it extracts lessons based on difficulty level. Cheers & glad you liked it!

bgar 13y ago

Switching does have its benefits but I'm afraid it'll be a pain to deal with it switching the vim keys around.

MrGando 13y ago
I was thinking about covering that topic. It's not that painful, I didn't have any problems on using Vim with colemak with only one alteration: inoremap lh <Esc> Before I used k-j, but the position of those in Colemak is 'e-n'... so it's totally unusable. I mean if you're typing 'entropy' it leaves insert mode, and you get mad :) Didn't take me more than a week to get used to 'e-n'.
pcl 13y ago
I'm a dvorak user, and I've never had a problem with vim navigation. I just use the regular keys for it, and it seems to work out fine.
- MrGando 13y ago
  Same here in Colemak, I saw a lot of people taking the wrong approach and designing complicated .vimrcs. I think that's not great, specially if you have to do some pair programming with QWERTY users.
semisight 13y ago
I never felt pained on switching layouts. If this makes any sense: learning the muscle memory for Colemak almost seems to be on a lower "level" than vim (to me), so I kept hitting 'i' and 'a' and so on without even noticing.
- MrGando 13y ago
  Makes sense to me, I felt the exact same way. I think that it's better to let the muscle memory of Colemak to develop and you will eventually get used to vim. When I use vim I'm constantly thinking about words, like 'ci' (change in) 'ya' (yank around) etc. So when you get your Colemak right vim is not a big hassle.
  - hadem 13y ago
    I do the same thing with Vim short cuts, think about their "meanings". I found it helped a lot! I'm curious about h, j, k, and l. Same story?
    - jvoorhis 13y ago
      When I switched to Dvorak, I adapted pretty quickly to vim. hjkl are effectively exploded across the keyboard, and I had to adjust to that, but adapting to the new locations for other commands was easier if I thought about the semantic meaning of the commands, and the keys themselves as abbreviations.
  - bgar 13y ago
    I just realized I tend to do the same thing, when I edit in vim I read the "phrases" I am typing, like ci" etc.
rsaarelm 13y ago
I don't find using the Colemak-shuffled hjkl comfortable, so I have `:set langmap=li,ko,hn,je,nh,ej,ik,ol,LI,KO,JE,EJ,IK,OL` in my .vimrc to make Vim usable for me on Colemak. Besides restoring the home row navigation, it moves the keys one key right into the qwerty jkl;, which is the neutral home row position. The problem with this is that langmap is a somewhat advanced option, and isn't supported by every Vim-like product, such as the Visual Studio Vim plugin. Shai Coleman had a really extensive Vim remapping setup, but he has since stopped using Vim: http://colemak.com/pub/vim/colemak.vim http://colemak.com/pub/vim/colemak.vim

chissock 13y ago

Very well written article; can you gauge the convenience on switching to colemak instead of dvorak?

MrGando 13y ago
Great question, Dvorak is awesome, but the 'great' thing about Colemak is that the symbols and numbers are unchanged (in contrast of Dvorak). So basically the learning curve from QWERTY, should be shorter, and simpler. Another personal thought, is that at least most of programming languages where made with QWERTY in mind, so the symbol usage ([], {}, ; etc) in programming languages is influenced by that too. A symptom of that is many foreign guys using the American QWERTY layout to code. Cheers :D

cecilpl 13y ago

I've been typing exclusively on Dvorak for 12 years, since I was about 16. Does colemak offer any significant advantages over dvorak that would make it worthwhile attempting to switch?

MrGando 13y ago
I would dare to say no, if you already know Dvorak then switching to Colemak doesn't offer a lot of advantage. There are some reports that say that Colemak is marginally better but IMHO they where not conclusive. Bottom line, both are well designed layouts (Dvorak by a human and Colemak by a computer) and substantially better than QWERTY.
semisight 13y ago
It does, to a Qwerty typist, or to one who switches between for whatever reason. Quite a few keys in Colemak are preserved between it and Qwerty (like zxcv), making it both easier to learn and easier to jump back and forth. Personally, when I play the occasional video game, I'll do so in Qwerty instead of redefining every key. For typing and programming (aka daily life), I use Colemak.
SkyMarshal 13y ago
The Colemak FAQ answers that: http://colemak.com/wiki/index.php?title=FAQ#What.27s_wrong_with_the_Dvorak_layout.3F http://colemak.com/wiki/index.php?title=FAQ#What.27s_wrong_w...

marcelo_lara 13y ago

How long does it take to reach around 40 – 50 words per minute ?

MrGando 13y ago
I wasn't very clear about it because it does really vary a lot. I've read of people reaching 40-50 in a week, for me it took me about 15 days. After that I went 'cold turkey' and dropped QWERTY, while doing that I think that in about a month and a half I reached ~70 WPM.
semisight 13y ago
In my experience it took around 1-2 months to become fully "fluent" in Colemak.
- jvoorhis 13y ago
  It took me about 3 weeks to acclimate to Dvorak, but I actually used a copy of Mavis Beacon to help with the transition (no joke.) I mean 80wpm. It felt both faster and more comfortable after that.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

thatthatis 13y ago

Is there any quantified, credible (semi)scientific evidence that colemak or dvorak is actually faster/easier/better? I've seen lots of theoretical stuff, but mostly anecdote and/or poorly designed tests. Thanks.

kzahel 13y ago
They are definitely better, but not for the reason you might expect. The best part about having a non-qwerty keyboard layout is the frustration on peoples faces when they try to use your computer. Especially if it's a repeat performance as it is not the first time you've frustrated them with your keyboard layout!
- daenney 13y ago
  I was hoping someone would bring this up. Having my machine with a Colemak layout is one of the best security measures out there.
- MrGando 13y ago
  Yep, I agree. When I invite people home and leave my MacBook playing my music, there's always someone who want's to go to Youtube and switch my music... Colemak totally avoids that from happening.
MrGando 13y ago
There is some more serious research, the Colemak FAQ, refers to Carpalx (http://mkweb.bcgsc.ca/carpalx/?colemak http://mkweb.bcgsc.ca/carpalx/?colemak), there you can actually take a look at the several Dvorak layouts and QWERTY. I actually saw more discussions about this in the Colemak forum, but that was a long time ago.
nether 13y ago
I'm interested in what you consider "theoretical stuff" or "poorly designed tests." If metrics like number of words possible from the home row alone or total finger travel given some body of text do not satisfy you, then I doubt anything will. I will say one of the biggest misconceptions is that the Dvorak layout is for speed. I've known people who type 80+ WPM with two fingers on QWERTY. You can be fast on any layout, but Dvorak is way more comfortable. Once you can type faster than you can think of what to type, it doesn't really matter.

christiangenco 13y ago

I've tried switching to Colemak three times, and I just can't do it. Here's why: I can currently type 110-125 WPM on QWERTY, which I've projected would take upwards of a year to re-achieve on Colemak, which is a total no-brainer if I could reasonably expect positive long-term gains. However, from what I've read (and heard from friends on Colemak), switching back to QWERTY is painful, so my typing speed on anyone else's computer (which I realized, after trying to switch, I do fairly frequently) would go down to 30 at best. The primary argument for Colemak is that it reduces finger travel distance from the home row. But my fingers don't naturally fall precisely in a line: my left middle finger naturally drifts between the space of E and D, my middle and ring finger on my right hand drift up closer to I and O. Culturally, being on Colemak means the world is suddenly against you. It's like choosing to be a left-handed person in a right-handed world: vim keybindings don't make sense, applications and flash pages ignore your custom keyboard layout and switch you back to QWERTY, and every single keyboard|laptop|smartphone you buy for the rest of your life will require a certain amount of tweaking before it's maximally usable (think iPhone autocorrect). Keyboard layout hacking in general, however, is fantastic. Here's a few tweaks I've accumulated that have immediate benefits for little of the above downsides: 1. remap `caps lock` to `ESC`: goes without saying for vim, but extremely useful in other situations too (like playing starcraft and de-selecting units) 2. remap 1234567890 to !@#$%^&*(): as a programmer, I use these symbols far more often than I use the numbers. Switching to shift to numbers with symbols as default makes all the sense in the world. It no longer takes finger gymnastics to surround something in () or negate a term with !. 3. (optional) shift doubletap for caps lock: I missed caps lock after a while, so I brought it back with a double-tap of shift.

tadfisher 13y ago
Anecdotally, Android 4.2 and up comes with a Colemak layout that works with all of the bells & whistles, including swiping and autocorrect.
- gregorycarter 13y ago
  Yes, this is right (on 4.3 at least). You can choose between QWERTY, QWERTZ, AZERTY, Dvorak and Colemak.

V-2 13y ago

I didn't find Colemak all that comfortable, but I experimented with carpalX and I found it very pleasant. Even if you are not curious about trying new keyboard layouts, the website is packed with very interesting theory and research: http://mkweb.bcgsc.ca/carpalx/ http://mkweb.bcgsc.ca/carpalx/

V-2 13y ago
I see now that MrGando posted that link already, I hadn't read all the comments before making mine. I second that recommendation anyhow

V-2 13y ago

One great feature of Colemak is the idea of mapping capslock (useless as it is) to backspace. Eg. it allows for quickly deleting last word with ctrl + capslock combo - one hand instead of both.

hetid 13y ago

No mention of Carpalx? http://mkweb.bcgsc.ca/carpalx/?full_optimization http://mkweb.bcgsc.ca/carpalx/?full_optimization If you're going to learn a new keyboard layout, why not make it the best?

portmanteaufu 13y ago
I'm in the process of learning Colemak now. I'd love to use QGMLWB, but I liked that I was able to use Colemak on my Macbook, Windows box and Android devices without having to install anything extra. I figured that the few extra efficiency points I lost by sticking with Colemak would be offset by its comparatively broad availability.
MrGando 13y ago
I did mention Carpalx, but not your exact link in another comment.

V-2 13y ago

Most of the keyboard layouts - alternative to QWERTY - are optimized for English. (QWERTY itself is not optimized for any human language in existence). It would be very interesting to see how well they work for other languages. Or to try developing a "compromise" layout, optimized for two (or more) different langauges at once and see whether it is at all possible to gain a significant advantage over QWERTY in those several languages at once...

bjterry 13y ago
It's likely that Colemak would be at least somewhat better for any European language if only because all of the vowels are under the home row (except U, which is under QWERTY's "I").

V-2 13y ago

Another interesting link: http://www.andong.co.uk/dvorak/ http://www.andong.co.uk/dvorak/ (an online analysis tool you can use to compare the efficiency of different layouts - including Colemak)

knightjp 13y ago

I've been using Colemak cold turkey for 6 months now and I still can't type properly to save my life. I barely make a proper sentence these days. I never had this problem when I was trying to learn Dvorak. It seem the hand alteration makes it easier and you more accurate.