6 ms·

I'm not snarking at all. I'm observing that comments about the NSA are entirely apropos given the current climate we live in. Yes, you're right, at this point,

by cheald 13y ago

I'm not snarking at all. I'm observing that comments about the NSA are entirely apropos given the current climate we live in. Yes, you're right, at this point, it would take something extremely radical to convince us that the NSA isn't spying on us anymore. Therefore, we should expect comments about the NSA and spying to become a part of the common dialog regarding technology and personal information. Asking them to go away is just asking people to stick their head in the sand and ignore it. The comments will go away when the issue goes away. The issue isn't going to go away. Therefore, don't expect the comments to, either. Welcome to the world we now live in.

timr 13y ago
"Asking them to go away is just asking people to stick their head in the sand and ignore it." I think what's happening here is that you are being asked to go away. Your comments aren't adding anything to this discussion about a new iPhone.
- cheald 13y ago
  And yet, the OP's comment is the top-voted comment in the thread, which would indicate the the democratic consensus of the HN readership is that this is worth talking about.
  - timr 13y ago
    let it go.
tedunangst 13y ago
Are the comments that will never go away helpful?
- freehunter 13y ago
  Can we talk about the price of tea in the colonies without the discussion always being about King George and the Tea Act?
- jlgreco 13y ago
  Comments about the virtue of weight and thinness never go away, are they helpful? Comments about the importance of good UI design never go away, are they helpful? Comments about IT security never go away, are they helpful? Comments about performance never go away, are they helpful? Comments about the importance of battery life never go away, are they helpful? Comments about privacy never go away, are they helpful? The answer to all of the above, if we assume that talking about a product is 'helpful' to begin with, is "Yes." Privacy is simply something that people are going to consider and discuss from now on. There is no reason we should treat it differently from the other things we consider.
  - tedunangst 13y ago
    Most of those topics are not sidelined by "everything they tell us is a lie and should be replaced by uninformed speculation." If we're discussing the importance of battery life, a comment such as "How do we know they aren't lying? Maybe the new iPhone doesn't even have a battery and requires you to turn a hand crank." is not helpful.
    - jlgreco 13y ago
      Yeah, you have a good point there. Speculation in discussions about smartphones is rather unprecedented isn't it?
melling 13y ago
But you are accomplishing absolutely nothing here. Being annoying and ineffective doesn't help your cause. Do you know that Jesus loves you and he wants to save your soul? You might as we'll be discussing religion or politics here. This is not the place. I heard your warning the first ten times.
- cheald 13y ago
  We're talking about it, aren't we? We haven't forgotten this issue, distracted like children by the latest shiny toy. Even in the face of the things that traditionally kill news stories, we're talking about it. Change starts by making enough people aware of and angry about the issue that the politicians can't afford to support these programs any more. If we're just distracted the next time $TECH_TOY or $NATURAL_DISASTER comes along, then nothing at all will change. I don't particularly care if people find my anger at the NSA's systemic intrusion of our privacy annoying. I care more about that particular issue than I do what a random person on the internet whom I've never met might think of me. I care more about keeping you talking about the issue than I do about you liking me.
  - stanleydrew 13y ago
    No, we aren't talking about anything. The original comment speculates that the NSA has a backdoor into every iPhone, and uses that as the foundation for a comment about whether it's a good idea to store a copy of your fingerprint locally on the device. There is no new information about the NSA there. Just more speculation.
  - logjam 13y ago
    Oh brother. We care about legitimate privacy issues but now you are suggesting that becoming the equivalent of the Westboro Baptist Church on these matters will somehow be effective. It won't. The adolescent libertarian smell combined with semi-hysterical, semi-supported outrage on this issue is rapidly beginning to stink.
    - cheald 13y ago
stanleydrew 13y ago
Well now you are backtracking into a semi-legitimate interpretation of your comment as not snarky. If you didn't mean to snark you could have just originally said "We should expect comments about the NSA and spying to become a part of the common dialog regarding technology and personal information. Asking them to go away is just asking people to stick their head in the sand and ignore it." That is a useful comment that would further the discussion. So I will now respond to that, since I don't want to debate what snark means. I don't mind useful or constructive comments about technology and the NSA, but most of the comments I see are very reactionary and misinformed and painfully naiive. They are similar to all the old comments on stories about Microsoft where people would say things like "Micro$oft is obviously evil" and such. So if a comment is interesting and useful, and happens to be about the NSA, then great. I haven't seen many of those.
- cheald 13y ago
  I chose brevity, and can see how it would be interpreted as snark. I wasn't aiming for that, but it was a simple question that deserved a simple answer, IMO. > I don't mind useful or constructive comments about technology and the NSA, but most of the comments I see are very reactionary and misinformed and painfully naiive. Perhaps our energy would be better spent pointing out why these comments are naiive and misinformed, rather than discussing whether they're worth saying at all, then?
  - stanleydrew 13y ago
    Totally agree that we should discuss why these comments are naiive rather than further engage in the meta-discussion. Perhaps we can start over? (Meta-meta-point: I wish I could collapse comment threads on HN.)
- dreamfactory 13y ago
  The security and related technological implications of the device seem relevant to any potential user and completely on topic to me. Agree it's unfortunate that battery life, form factor etc are overshadowed by recent revelations, and regrettable that Apple chose such a tasteless feature in the circumstances.
EpicEng 13y ago
You know what I like? Talking about tech stuff on tech sites. You know what I don't like? Random NSA comments on anything that has to do with some device which operates on electricity.

by cheald 13y ago

timr 13y ago

"Asking them to go away is just asking people to stick their head in the sand and ignore it." I think what's happening here is that you are being asked to go away. Your comments aren't adding anything to this discussion about a new iPhone.

cheald 13y ago
And yet, the OP's comment is the top-voted comment in the thread, which would indicate the the democratic consensus of the HN readership is that this is worth talking about.
- timr 13y ago
  let it go.

tedunangst 13y ago

Are the comments that will never go away helpful?

freehunter 13y ago
Can we talk about the price of tea in the colonies without the discussion always being about King George and the Tea Act?
jlgreco 13y ago
Comments about the virtue of weight and thinness never go away, are they helpful? Comments about the importance of good UI design never go away, are they helpful? Comments about IT security never go away, are they helpful? Comments about performance never go away, are they helpful? Comments about the importance of battery life never go away, are they helpful? Comments about privacy never go away, are they helpful? The answer to all of the above, if we assume that talking about a product is 'helpful' to begin with, is "Yes." Privacy is simply something that people are going to consider and discuss from now on. There is no reason we should treat it differently from the other things we consider.
- tedunangst 13y ago
  Most of those topics are not sidelined by "everything they tell us is a lie and should be replaced by uninformed speculation." If we're discussing the importance of battery life, a comment such as "How do we know they aren't lying? Maybe the new iPhone doesn't even have a battery and requires you to turn a hand crank." is not helpful.
  - jlgreco 13y ago
    Yeah, you have a good point there. Speculation in discussions about smartphones is rather unprecedented isn't it?

melling 13y ago

But you are accomplishing absolutely nothing here. Being annoying and ineffective doesn't help your cause. Do you know that Jesus loves you and he wants to save your soul? You might as we'll be discussing religion or politics here. This is not the place. I heard your warning the first ten times.

cheald 13y ago
We're talking about it, aren't we? We haven't forgotten this issue, distracted like children by the latest shiny toy. Even in the face of the things that traditionally kill news stories, we're talking about it. Change starts by making enough people aware of and angry about the issue that the politicians can't afford to support these programs any more. If we're just distracted the next time $TECH_TOY or $NATURAL_DISASTER comes along, then nothing at all will change. I don't particularly care if people find my anger at the NSA's systemic intrusion of our privacy annoying. I care more about that particular issue than I do what a random person on the internet whom I've never met might think of me. I care more about keeping you talking about the issue than I do about you liking me.
- stanleydrew 13y ago
  No, we aren't talking about anything. The original comment speculates that the NSA has a backdoor into every iPhone, and uses that as the foundation for a comment about whether it's a good idea to store a copy of your fingerprint locally on the device. There is no new information about the NSA there. Just more speculation.
- logjam 13y ago
  Oh brother. We care about legitimate privacy issues but now you are suggesting that becoming the equivalent of the Westboro Baptist Church on these matters will somehow be effective. It won't. The adolescent libertarian smell combined with semi-hysterical, semi-supported outrage on this issue is rapidly beginning to stink.
  - cheald 13y ago

stanleydrew 13y ago

Well now you are backtracking into a semi-legitimate interpretation of your comment as not snarky. If you didn't mean to snark you could have just originally said "We should expect comments about the NSA and spying to become a part of the common dialog regarding technology and personal information. Asking them to go away is just asking people to stick their head in the sand and ignore it." That is a useful comment that would further the discussion. So I will now respond to that, since I don't want to debate what snark means. I don't mind useful or constructive comments about technology and the NSA, but most of the comments I see are very reactionary and misinformed and painfully naiive. They are similar to all the old comments on stories about Microsoft where people would say things like "Micro$oft is obviously evil" and such. So if a comment is interesting and useful, and happens to be about the NSA, then great. I haven't seen many of those.

cheald 13y ago
I chose brevity, and can see how it would be interpreted as snark. I wasn't aiming for that, but it was a simple question that deserved a simple answer, IMO. > I don't mind useful or constructive comments about technology and the NSA, but most of the comments I see are very reactionary and misinformed and painfully naiive. Perhaps our energy would be better spent pointing out why these comments are naiive and misinformed, rather than discussing whether they're worth saying at all, then?
- stanleydrew 13y ago
  Totally agree that we should discuss why these comments are naiive rather than further engage in the meta-discussion. Perhaps we can start over? (Meta-meta-point: I wish I could collapse comment threads on HN.)
dreamfactory 13y ago
The security and related technological implications of the device seem relevant to any potential user and completely on topic to me. Agree it's unfortunate that battery life, form factor etc are overshadowed by recent revelations, and regrettable that Apple chose such a tasteless feature in the circumstances.

EpicEng 13y ago

You know what I like? Talking about tech stuff on tech sites. You know what I don't like? Random NSA comments on anything that has to do with some device which operates on electricity.