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More snark. This isn't helpful. For those who want to believe it, I doubt there is any amount of information that could ever be released to convince them that

More snark. This isn't helpful. For those who want to believe it, I doubt there is any amount of information that could ever be released to convince them that the NSA isn't spying on people anymore.

jonknee 13y ago
> For those who want to believe it, I doubt there is any amount of information that could ever be released to convince them that the NSA isn't spying on people anymore. The NSA is a spy agency, of course they are spying on people. Unless the NSA ceases to exist it will spy on people. They are not actively trying to claim otherwise (only that they try really hard to only spy on people who are in someway connected to someone who is not an American or has been designated dangerous).
- hhandoko 13y ago
  The difference is, they're now spying on everyone. I struggle to find a credible justification for that.
abecedarius 13y ago
Well, whose fault is that? Scheier's special prosecutor plus truth and reconciliation commission seems reasonable. But we're getting way off topic.
cheald 13y ago
I'm not snarking at all. I'm observing that comments about the NSA are entirely apropos given the current climate we live in. Yes, you're right, at this point, it would take something extremely radical to convince us that the NSA isn't spying on us anymore. Therefore, we should expect comments about the NSA and spying to become a part of the common dialog regarding technology and personal information. Asking them to go away is just asking people to stick their head in the sand and ignore it. The comments will go away when the issue goes away. The issue isn't going to go away. Therefore, don't expect the comments to, either. Welcome to the world we now live in.
- timr 13y ago
  "Asking them to go away is just asking people to stick their head in the sand and ignore it." I think what's happening here is that you are being asked to go away. Your comments aren't adding anything to this discussion about a new iPhone.
  - cheald 13y ago
    And yet, the OP's comment is the top-voted comment in the thread, which would indicate the the democratic consensus of the HN readership is that this is worth talking about.
    - timr 13y ago
      let it go.
- tedunangst 13y ago
  Are the comments that will never go away helpful?
  - freehunter 13y ago
    Can we talk about the price of tea in the colonies without the discussion always being about King George and the Tea Act?
  - jlgreco 13y ago
    Comments about the virtue of weight and thinness never go away, are they helpful? Comments about the importance of good UI design never go away, are they helpful? Comments about IT security never go away, are they helpful? Comments about performance never go away, are they helpful? Comments about the importance of battery life never go away, are they helpful? Comments about privacy never go away, are they helpful? The answer to all of the above, if we assume that talking about a product is 'helpful' to begin with, is "Yes." Privacy is simply something that people are going to consider and discuss from now on. There is no reason we should treat it differently from the other things we consider.
sudomal 13y ago
Sarcastic or not, it's an important point. You are giving up a significant attribute of your identity to the protection of a US technology company. Whether that bothers you (or not) depends on how much you value your privacy.
- azinman2 13y ago
  If they don't already have your fingerprints on file, which depending on where you live happens as a kid in case you go missing, get a drivers license, etc. If the NSA wants to target you specifically, you're fucked no matter what unless you move to a cave. No point in being needlessly worried. I'm more worried about this causing someone to cut off my finger while stealing my phone than I am the NSA coming after me.
scrrr 13y ago
But they are! And this is a very important issue to be dealt with. I'm very disappointed by all the companies and all governments involved, and I earn money writing iOS and cloud-applications. And I understand it's bad for business, but the issue is too important to be ignored. So yes, by all means, keep talking about it.
- pekk 13y ago
  Do keep talking about it. In threads which actually have something to do with it. Not every single thread about anything.
  - glitchdout 13y ago
    The new iPhone will have an option to store your fingerprint. This has EVERYTHING to do with the NSA. It is highly relevant. How can you be so blind and not see it?
baddox 13y ago
What do you mean it's not helpful? It is a plain and factual answer to the question.
Asterick6 13y ago
Please stop using snark. Use snide, sarcastic, or cynical instead. Snark is a word that's better off being forgotten in some dictionary of colloquial terms.
- jlgreco 13y ago
  Why? Snark seems like a perfectly cromulent word.
  - brymaster 13y ago
    "Snark" is one of those words that people first learned on HN and now reuse whenever there is a comment they don't like.
    - jlgreco 13y ago
      "Snark" means "snide remark" and is absolutely not an HNism. Hell, I think I learned it from my mother (who no doubt used it at me). Despite heavy use, the word retains clear meaning, even as used by stanleydrew above in his otherwise foolish comment. It is a perfectly cromulent word.
guelo 13y ago
I guess the fanboys now have to defend the NSA, pathetic.
EdwardCoffin 13y ago
MORE snark? I think a case could be made that the comment you responded to was snarky, but just barely. The comment several levels up that was the first labeled as snarky is one I just can't see being such.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
raganwald 13y ago
Now you're making a suggestion that somehow people simply "want to believe it," as if we're wandering around with tinfoil hats muttering on street corners. At this point, the overwhelming evidence is that we are being spied upon at a scale never seen before in history. Legal checks and balances such as search warrants are consider inconveniences to be routed around with border confiscations. I would begin to believe things are changing when I see officials on both sides of the Canada-US border going to jail--yes, jail--for things like spying on their ex-spouses or for routing around search warrants.
beedogs 13y ago
" More snark. This isn't helpful." You know what? Neither are derisive comments that imply the NSA is not, in fact, violating our privacy. You'd have to be out of your goddamned mind to actually think they've stopped.

More snark. This isn't helpful. For those who want to believe it, I doubt there is any amount of information that could ever be released to convince them that the NSA isn't spying on people anymore.

jonknee 13y ago

> For those who want to believe it, I doubt there is any amount of information that could ever be released to convince them that the NSA isn't spying on people anymore. The NSA is a spy agency, of course they are spying on people. Unless the NSA ceases to exist it will spy on people. They are not actively trying to claim otherwise (only that they try really hard to only spy on people who are in someway connected to someone who is not an American or has been designated dangerous).

hhandoko 13y ago
The difference is, they're now spying on everyone. I struggle to find a credible justification for that.

abecedarius 13y ago

Well, whose fault is that? Scheier's special prosecutor plus truth and reconciliation commission seems reasonable. But we're getting way off topic.

cheald 13y ago

I'm not snarking at all. I'm observing that comments about the NSA are entirely apropos given the current climate we live in. Yes, you're right, at this point, it would take something extremely radical to convince us that the NSA isn't spying on us anymore. Therefore, we should expect comments about the NSA and spying to become a part of the common dialog regarding technology and personal information. Asking them to go away is just asking people to stick their head in the sand and ignore it. The comments will go away when the issue goes away. The issue isn't going to go away. Therefore, don't expect the comments to, either. Welcome to the world we now live in.

timr 13y ago
"Asking them to go away is just asking people to stick their head in the sand and ignore it." I think what's happening here is that you are being asked to go away. Your comments aren't adding anything to this discussion about a new iPhone.
- cheald 13y ago
  And yet, the OP's comment is the top-voted comment in the thread, which would indicate the the democratic consensus of the HN readership is that this is worth talking about.
  - timr 13y ago
    let it go.
tedunangst 13y ago
Are the comments that will never go away helpful?
- freehunter 13y ago
  Can we talk about the price of tea in the colonies without the discussion always being about King George and the Tea Act?
- jlgreco 13y ago
  Comments about the virtue of weight and thinness never go away, are they helpful? Comments about the importance of good UI design never go away, are they helpful? Comments about IT security never go away, are they helpful? Comments about performance never go away, are they helpful? Comments about the importance of battery life never go away, are they helpful? Comments about privacy never go away, are they helpful? The answer to all of the above, if we assume that talking about a product is 'helpful' to begin with, is "Yes." Privacy is simply something that people are going to consider and discuss from now on. There is no reason we should treat it differently from the other things we consider.

sudomal 13y ago

Sarcastic or not, it's an important point. You are giving up a significant attribute of your identity to the protection of a US technology company. Whether that bothers you (or not) depends on how much you value your privacy.

azinman2 13y ago
If they don't already have your fingerprints on file, which depending on where you live happens as a kid in case you go missing, get a drivers license, etc. If the NSA wants to target you specifically, you're fucked no matter what unless you move to a cave. No point in being needlessly worried. I'm more worried about this causing someone to cut off my finger while stealing my phone than I am the NSA coming after me.

scrrr 13y ago

But they are! And this is a very important issue to be dealt with. I'm very disappointed by all the companies and all governments involved, and I earn money writing iOS and cloud-applications. And I understand it's bad for business, but the issue is too important to be ignored. So yes, by all means, keep talking about it.

pekk 13y ago
Do keep talking about it. In threads which actually have something to do with it. Not every single thread about anything.
- glitchdout 13y ago
  The new iPhone will have an option to store your fingerprint. This has EVERYTHING to do with the NSA. It is highly relevant. How can you be so blind and not see it?

baddox 13y ago

What do you mean it's not helpful? It is a plain and factual answer to the question.

Asterick6 13y ago

Please stop using snark. Use snide, sarcastic, or cynical instead. Snark is a word that's better off being forgotten in some dictionary of colloquial terms.

jlgreco 13y ago
Why? Snark seems like a perfectly cromulent word.
- brymaster 13y ago
  "Snark" is one of those words that people first learned on HN and now reuse whenever there is a comment they don't like.
  - jlgreco 13y ago
    "Snark" means "snide remark" and is absolutely not an HNism. Hell, I think I learned it from my mother (who no doubt used it at me). Despite heavy use, the word retains clear meaning, even as used by stanleydrew above in his otherwise foolish comment. It is a perfectly cromulent word.

guelo 13y ago

I guess the fanboys now have to defend the NSA, pathetic.

EdwardCoffin 13y ago

MORE snark? I think a case could be made that the comment you responded to was snarky, but just barely. The comment several levels up that was the first labeled as snarky is one I just can't see being such.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

raganwald 13y ago

Now you're making a suggestion that somehow people simply "want to believe it," as if we're wandering around with tinfoil hats muttering on street corners. At this point, the overwhelming evidence is that we are being spied upon at a scale never seen before in history. Legal checks and balances such as search warrants are consider inconveniences to be routed around with border confiscations. I would begin to believe things are changing when I see officials on both sides of the Canada-US border going to jail--yes, jail--for things like spying on their ex-spouses or for routing around search warrants.

beedogs 13y ago

" More snark. This isn't helpful." You know what? Neither are derisive comments that imply the NSA is not, in fact, violating our privacy. You'd have to be out of your goddamned mind to actually think they've stopped.