10 ms·

Probably when the NSA stops illegally spying on the citizens it is supposed to serve.

by cheald 13y ago

luscious 13y ago
Fwd frev ip scan circdb.
res0nat0r 13y ago
We take for gospel that the NSA is spying on everyone in the world via every hardware device that has been created in the USA because of a few powerpoint slides. Interesting.
- drcode 13y ago
  What should we be using for our information, instead? Clapper's testimony to congress?
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
- TrevorJ 13y ago
  This is a vast oversimplification of the facts.
  - res0nat0r 13y ago
    So is the parent comment. A few PowerPoint slides doesn't warrant any ridiculous comments about the NSA backdooring your phone. It would be great if HN could stop with the NSA is everywhere-all-the-time-in-everything meme for a while, it would make reading the comments here much more relevant.
    - brymaster 13y ago
      https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6364315 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6364315
- baddox 13y ago
  It might be slightly more comforting if anyone, including the NSA, was denying it.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
- jlgreco 13y ago
  You are still going with that "it's just a powerpoint, it means nothing" line? I thought we dispensed with that notion months ago.
  - res0nat0r 13y ago
    Yes. There is zero evidence of any type of NSA backdooring your iPhone nonsense. It would be great to read HN (where I thought we were more technically inclined than the rest of the net) for a day without unfounded nonsensical claims.
    - jlgreco 13y ago
      Yes, it is simply inconceivable that hard evidence of the activities of a spy agency might not be forthcoming... We are dealing with the realm of speculation, but it is not speculation fueled by some sort of tinfoil hatted lunacy. With the role that smartphones fill in peoples' lives today, you are just going to have to come to grips with the fact that, going forward, some people are going to consider the privacy of new devices to be very relevant, and well worth discussing. Don't be surprised when people error on the side of caution. You want to talk about battery life and color? Well I want to talk about display DPI and privacy. Learn to cope.
    - smtddr 13y ago
      This isn't just some random tinfoilhat idea that came out of nowhere. Remember CarrierIQ on Android? The NSA is real, the tinfoil-hats have been validated whether you believe it or not. From the NSA's point of view, having everyone's fingerprint on file would be fantastic and we know they have the power to force Apple to cooperate. In fact, I'm just assuming that's what will happen so now I'll be careful about borrowing anyone's iPhone. Everything about tech is going to be cross-examined with potential(read: definite future) data gathering usage by the NSA.
    - nilliams 13y ago
      Backdooring iPhones does sound fantasical but that is not the only means your fingerprint data could conceivably make its way beyond your iPhone. I like that my fingerprint data is on precisely no computer anywhere. You don't have to be a massive conspiracy theory nut to feel slightly uneasy recording your fingerprint on anything.
- wintersFright 13y ago
  Did you see this recent news? http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/privacy-scandal-nsa-can-spy-on-smart-phone-data-a-920971.html http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/privacy-scandal-ns... It isn't just one slide pack. Glen greenwald et all were given 50000 documents
- samstave 13y ago
  When the NSA themselves is calling Apple "Big Brother" and the consumers "Zombies" -- then its damn hard to not be pretty worried about their capabilities. http://www.businessinsider.com/nsa-iphone-slides-in-der-spiegel-2013-9 http://www.businessinsider.com/nsa-iphone-slides-in-der-spie... (Sorry for the BI link, but the relevant slides are shown immediately)
- brymaster 13y ago
  Wow. Sounds like somebody isn't paying enough attention. > In one case, after the government learned that a foreign intelligence target had ordered new computer hardware, the American manufacturer agreed to insert a back door into the product before it was shipped, someone familiar with the request told The Times. > At Microsoft, as The Guardian has reported, the N.S.A. worked with company officials to get pre-encryption access to Microsoft’s most popular services, including Outlook e-mail, Skype Internet phone calls and chats, and SkyDrive, the company’s cloud storage service. Please do your duty as a human being and read more. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/06/us/nsa-foils-much-internet-encryption.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/06/us/nsa-foils-much-internet...
  - twoodfin 13y ago
    Note that neither of your quotes even begin to imply that the NSA is spying on "everyone". They obviously have broad powers to spy on individuals through a variety of channels, which isn't, or shouldn't be, news.
stanleydrew 13y ago
More snark. This isn't helpful. For those who want to believe it, I doubt there is any amount of information that could ever be released to convince them that the NSA isn't spying on people anymore.
- jonknee 13y ago
  > For those who want to believe it, I doubt there is any amount of information that could ever be released to convince them that the NSA isn't spying on people anymore. The NSA is a spy agency, of course they are spying on people. Unless the NSA ceases to exist it will spy on people. They are not actively trying to claim otherwise (only that they try really hard to only spy on people who are in someway connected to someone who is not an American or has been designated dangerous).
  - hhandoko 13y ago
    The difference is, they're now spying on everyone. I struggle to find a credible justification for that.
- abecedarius 13y ago
  Well, whose fault is that? Scheier's special prosecutor plus truth and reconciliation commission seems reasonable. But we're getting way off topic.
- cheald 13y ago
  I'm not snarking at all. I'm observing that comments about the NSA are entirely apropos given the current climate we live in. Yes, you're right, at this point, it would take something extremely radical to convince us that the NSA isn't spying on us anymore. Therefore, we should expect comments about the NSA and spying to become a part of the common dialog regarding technology and personal information. Asking them to go away is just asking people to stick their head in the sand and ignore it. The comments will go away when the issue goes away. The issue isn't going to go away. Therefore, don't expect the comments to, either. Welcome to the world we now live in.
jad 13y ago
> Probably when the NSA stops illegally spying... Who said what they're doing is illegal? The whole problem is that the entire surveillance regime is completely secret and completely legal.
- guelo 13y ago
  Since Bush and Obama have gone to extraordinary to block all lawsuits we do not know if the courts would determine that the programs are illegal.
melling 13y ago
I guess if you want to constantly complain about the NSA spying on you, you are entitled. However, some of us have had enough of the complaining. After all, you're probably going to be doing it for the rest of your life. I'd rather not spend mine listening to it. So, can we clearly tag a thread as NSA rant, so those of us who don't want to hear it ad nauseam, we can skip the rehash.
- cheald 13y ago
  This is the exact sort of attitude that has permitted us to get to the point where we even have to have a conversation about the government being engaged in massively intrusive spying programs. "I don't want to hear your whining about it" is a means of condoning these actions through silence. You are a part of the problem. If you can comprehend what is going on here, you should be loud and obnoxious about it. Get people talking. Make it the focus and refuse to give up that focus. The only way this is going to change is to get so many people angry about it that it becomes more politically advantageous to oppose than support it. If you get angry about hearing about it, then I'll take that - you now have an incentive to help get it changed so people will shut up about it.
  - melling 13y ago
    Essentially, you are asking me to discuss my politics here, where I draw the line, etc in a thread about the iPhone 5s. I know where you stand. I heard you the first ten times. I'm not trying to stop you from having the discussion. Can you just label the thread "NSA can get your fingerprints off that iPhone 5S" and have at it. There is a time and a place for everything. Everyone here has heard about the NSA situation by now. The word is out.
    - cheald 13y ago
      > Essentially, you are asking me to discuss my politics here, where I draw the line, etc in a thread about the iPhone 5s. Nope. I'm just asking you to not ask others to not discuss their politics. You're more than welcome to not participate in the conversation if it's not useful to you.

Probably when the NSA stops illegally spying on the citizens it is supposed to serve.

by cheald 13y ago

Probably when the NSA stops illegally spying on the citizens it is supposed to serve.

luscious 13y ago

Fwd frev ip scan circdb.

res0nat0r 13y ago

We take for gospel that the NSA is spying on everyone in the world via every hardware device that has been created in the USA because of a few powerpoint slides. Interesting.

drcode 13y ago
What should we be using for our information, instead? Clapper's testimony to congress?
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
TrevorJ 13y ago
This is a vast oversimplification of the facts.
- res0nat0r 13y ago
  So is the parent comment. A few PowerPoint slides doesn't warrant any ridiculous comments about the NSA backdooring your phone. It would be great if HN could stop with the NSA is everywhere-all-the-time-in-everything meme for a while, it would make reading the comments here much more relevant.
  - brymaster 13y ago
    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6364315 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6364315
baddox 13y ago
It might be slightly more comforting if anyone, including the NSA, was denying it.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
jlgreco 13y ago
You are still going with that "it's just a powerpoint, it means nothing" line? I thought we dispensed with that notion months ago.
- res0nat0r 13y ago
  Yes. There is zero evidence of any type of NSA backdooring your iPhone nonsense. It would be great to read HN (where I thought we were more technically inclined than the rest of the net) for a day without unfounded nonsensical claims.
  - jlgreco 13y ago
    Yes, it is simply inconceivable that hard evidence of the activities of a spy agency might not be forthcoming... We are dealing with the realm of speculation, but it is not speculation fueled by some sort of tinfoil hatted lunacy. With the role that smartphones fill in peoples' lives today, you are just going to have to come to grips with the fact that, going forward, some people are going to consider the privacy of new devices to be very relevant, and well worth discussing. Don't be surprised when people error on the side of caution. You want to talk about battery life and color? Well I want to talk about display DPI and privacy. Learn to cope.
  - smtddr 13y ago
    This isn't just some random tinfoilhat idea that came out of nowhere. Remember CarrierIQ on Android? The NSA is real, the tinfoil-hats have been validated whether you believe it or not. From the NSA's point of view, having everyone's fingerprint on file would be fantastic and we know they have the power to force Apple to cooperate. In fact, I'm just assuming that's what will happen so now I'll be careful about borrowing anyone's iPhone. Everything about tech is going to be cross-examined with potential(read: definite future) data gathering usage by the NSA.
  - nilliams 13y ago
    Backdooring iPhones does sound fantasical but that is not the only means your fingerprint data could conceivably make its way beyond your iPhone. I like that my fingerprint data is on precisely no computer anywhere. You don't have to be a massive conspiracy theory nut to feel slightly uneasy recording your fingerprint on anything.
wintersFright 13y ago
Did you see this recent news? http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/privacy-scandal-nsa-can-spy-on-smart-phone-data-a-920971.html http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/privacy-scandal-ns... It isn't just one slide pack. Glen greenwald et all were given 50000 documents
samstave 13y ago
When the NSA themselves is calling Apple "Big Brother" and the consumers "Zombies" -- then its damn hard to not be pretty worried about their capabilities. http://www.businessinsider.com/nsa-iphone-slides-in-der-spiegel-2013-9 http://www.businessinsider.com/nsa-iphone-slides-in-der-spie... (Sorry for the BI link, but the relevant slides are shown immediately)
brymaster 13y ago
Wow. Sounds like somebody isn't paying enough attention. > In one case, after the government learned that a foreign intelligence target had ordered new computer hardware, the American manufacturer agreed to insert a back door into the product before it was shipped, someone familiar with the request told The Times. > At Microsoft, as The Guardian has reported, the N.S.A. worked with company officials to get pre-encryption access to Microsoft’s most popular services, including Outlook e-mail, Skype Internet phone calls and chats, and SkyDrive, the company’s cloud storage service. Please do your duty as a human being and read more. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/06/us/nsa-foils-much-internet-encryption.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/06/us/nsa-foils-much-internet...
- twoodfin 13y ago
  Note that neither of your quotes even begin to imply that the NSA is spying on "everyone". They obviously have broad powers to spy on individuals through a variety of channels, which isn't, or shouldn't be, news.

stanleydrew 13y ago

More snark. This isn't helpful. For those who want to believe it, I doubt there is any amount of information that could ever be released to convince them that the NSA isn't spying on people anymore.

jonknee 13y ago
> For those who want to believe it, I doubt there is any amount of information that could ever be released to convince them that the NSA isn't spying on people anymore. The NSA is a spy agency, of course they are spying on people. Unless the NSA ceases to exist it will spy on people. They are not actively trying to claim otherwise (only that they try really hard to only spy on people who are in someway connected to someone who is not an American or has been designated dangerous).
- hhandoko 13y ago
  The difference is, they're now spying on everyone. I struggle to find a credible justification for that.
abecedarius 13y ago
Well, whose fault is that? Scheier's special prosecutor plus truth and reconciliation commission seems reasonable. But we're getting way off topic.
cheald 13y ago
I'm not snarking at all. I'm observing that comments about the NSA are entirely apropos given the current climate we live in. Yes, you're right, at this point, it would take something extremely radical to convince us that the NSA isn't spying on us anymore. Therefore, we should expect comments about the NSA and spying to become a part of the common dialog regarding technology and personal information. Asking them to go away is just asking people to stick their head in the sand and ignore it. The comments will go away when the issue goes away. The issue isn't going to go away. Therefore, don't expect the comments to, either. Welcome to the world we now live in.

jad 13y ago

> Probably when the NSA stops illegally spying... Who said what they're doing is illegal? The whole problem is that the entire surveillance regime is completely secret and completely legal.

guelo 13y ago
Since Bush and Obama have gone to extraordinary to block all lawsuits we do not know if the courts would determine that the programs are illegal.

melling 13y ago

I guess if you want to constantly complain about the NSA spying on you, you are entitled. However, some of us have had enough of the complaining. After all, you're probably going to be doing it for the rest of your life. I'd rather not spend mine listening to it. So, can we clearly tag a thread as NSA rant, so those of us who don't want to hear it ad nauseam, we can skip the rehash.

cheald 13y ago
This is the exact sort of attitude that has permitted us to get to the point where we even have to have a conversation about the government being engaged in massively intrusive spying programs. "I don't want to hear your whining about it" is a means of condoning these actions through silence. You are a part of the problem. If you can comprehend what is going on here, you should be loud and obnoxious about it. Get people talking. Make it the focus and refuse to give up that focus. The only way this is going to change is to get so many people angry about it that it becomes more politically advantageous to oppose than support it. If you get angry about hearing about it, then I'll take that - you now have an incentive to help get it changed so people will shut up about it.
- melling 13y ago
  Essentially, you are asking me to discuss my politics here, where I draw the line, etc in a thread about the iPhone 5s. I know where you stand. I heard you the first ten times. I'm not trying to stop you from having the discussion. Can you just label the thread "NSA can get your fingerprints off that iPhone 5S" and have at it. There is a time and a place for everything. Everyone here has heard about the NSA situation by now. The word is out.
  - cheald 13y ago
    > Essentially, you are asking me to discuss my politics here, where I draw the line, etc in a thread about the iPhone 5s. Nope. I'm just asking you to not ask others to not discuss their politics. You're more than welcome to not participate in the conversation if it's not useful to you.