8 ms·

Statement of Condemnation of U.S. Mass-Surveillance Programs [pdf]

318 points by Nogwater 13y ago

tptacek 13y ago
Wow does "UC Davis Professor" ever bury the lede here; Phil Rogaway is one of the most famous working cryptographers. He's also notable for having patented the best known AEAD scheme and granting a free license for all nomilitary use.
- B-Con 13y ago
  He's one of those people who's name you can't avoid repeatedly tripping over. I took UC Davis's graduate Intro to Cryptography class from him. It was fun to see how much of crypto history he has been involved with. Interestingly (given the subject matter of this post) he is also well known on campus for teaching a very good Technology Ethics class. (Sample material here.[1]) [1]: http://www.cs.ucdavis.edu/~rogaway/classes/ http://www.cs.ucdavis.edu/~rogaway/classes/
- Nogwater 13y ago
  Apparently I can edit the link text, so I've done that. Normally, I'd just go with the title text, but that was was too long to fit, so I had to get a little creative. Thanks for the tip.
- viraptor 13y ago
  > ... and granting a free license for all nomilitary use. I never thought about this. Maybe it would be a good idea to add such clause to applications I release. It wouldn't be compatible with GPL of course, but then again... not sure which one I care about more.
  - taneliv 13y ago
    Uhh, how would you define "military"? I would guess you'd be ok software used on the DARPA created Internet... What about UN peace-keeping forces, or the customs, police and other armed forces (in various countries), in which functions would they be allowed to use such software? Not to say which one is more important, but GPL (at least v2, haven't really studied v3 yet) is quite clear in its definitions and limitations. You'd do a good job defining "military" equally clearly and usefully for use in such licenses, but that might be quite a lot of work. Incidentally, "do no evil" is not a very good license exactly for the lack of a definition of evil.
rob05c 13y ago
I completely agree, about the codes of conduct bit. Any software developer who's taken part in any of this, who's an ACM member, should be ousted for gross violations of the ACM Code of Ethics http://www.acm.org/about/code-of-ethics http://www.acm.org/about/code-of-ethics
- fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
  Codes of Ethics mean so little, this would be a good time to make them more than lip service.
- skwirl 13y ago
  Wait... there are people who still think the ACM has relevance?
  - shadowfox 13y ago
    When exactly did ACM lose its relevance?
    - skwirl 13y ago
      It was at least before I started college in 2002. There were some remnants of it, such as a few professors who listed it on their CVs, and we did read the code of ethics in CS1. But nothing serious and active. Maybe it's different in different parts of the country.
  - D9u 13y ago
    What does the relevance of ACM have to do with the ethical obligations of professionals, be they computing, or otherwise? It's like the way the notion of Conflict of Interest has been marginalized as illustrated by no-bid contracts awarded to corporations which have strong ties to high level government employees. http://www.cs.cornell.edu/gries/howbushoperates/haliburton.html http://www.cs.cornell.edu/gries/howbushoperates/haliburton.h... http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-250_162-575356.html http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-250_162-575356.html It's like hiring a former Monsanto lobbyist to be the head of the FDA. It is objectionable. Just because some (mostly) Saudi nationals allegedly hijacked some airplanes 12 years ago that doesn't mean we have to discard our ideals in the name of some fictional "war" on an ideology.
biot 13y ago
"It is contrary to corporate responsibility for a company to assist in the creation of artifacts, such as server farms, routers, or analytic engines, intended for mass surveillance." Is there a list of companies which supply equipment and/or services to the NSA?
- samstave 13y ago
  Some people on reddit started looking into this: https://pay.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/1kno70/i_think_ive_found_the_company_that_produced_the/ https://pay.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/1kno70/i_think_... but they stopped looking perhaps... If you look at the link to Crunchbase's profile for Paladin Fund - that company seems to be funding all the DOD contracting tech services companies.... Edit: Also - look at every investment In-Q-Tel has made.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- bengrunfeld 13y ago
  Yes. Look at the slides Snowden released when he blew the whistle. http://images.techhive.com/images/article/2013/06/prism_vendor_slide_washington_post-100041030-orig.jpg http://images.techhive.com/images/article/2013/06/prism_vend...
  - biot 13y ago
    Those are companies likely forced to cooperate. I doubt the NSA issues National Security Letters forcing hardware manufacturers to sell them products.
    - bengrunfeld 13y ago
      Says who?
frob 13y ago
I am so very proud to be at UCD right now.
- dandrews 13y ago
  I'd be interested in your (and Rogaway's) take on the UCD pepper spray incident, then. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjXcaoEAkq4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjXcaoEAkq4
  - tptacek 13y ago
    What a nauseating comment. How hypocritical of Rogaway to take a moral stand on any issue, it implies, living as he does on land stolen from Aboriginal Americans.
    - dandrews 13y ago
      Your colorful indignation is misplaced. I imply nothing about anyone's stand on the issue of mass surveillance - didn't even address the matter. You should instead have inferred my disapproval of UCD cheerleading. Nevertheless I regret mentioning Rogaway. Upon re-reading his statement I see he footnotes his affiliation with UCD but makes no claim to represent.
  - fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
    US Davis paid a little over $600k to the 21 students and fired John Pike. According to SFGate the students will receive about $30k each and a written apology from the chancellor. The ACLU will get 250k for representing the students. That sounds like a reasonable outcome to me. http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/UC-Davis-pepper-sprayed-students-settle-3896116.php http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/UC-Davis-pepper-spraye...
    - dandrews 13y ago
      Thank you for this followup. I'd written the Chancellor's office, but never received a reply.
maxk42 13y ago
Amen.
- pekk 13y ago
  An appropriate response, since the politics of this have taken on such a dogmatic, black-and-white quality. In the same thread: calls for McCarthy-like blacklisting of programmers based on ideology. Never any nuance in these discussions: either say 'Amen' or Burn in Hell.
  - patcon 13y ago
    I wish he'd just said "I agree", so that you didn't find yourself a soapbox so high up in the comments...
  - etiam 13y ago
    "The hottest places in Hell are reserved for those who remain neutral in time of great moral crisis." — Dante Alighieri
    - porkpiehat 13y ago
      I get that as a quote this is relevant, but if I don't know who Alighieri is or what he did, this seems like an unsupported moral assertion. Obviously it struck you as memorable. But would you really claim that the person who does nothing is _worse_ than the one who actually perpetrated crime?
      - brohee 13y ago
        Avoiding ridicule is just a Wikipedia entry away...
    - mcguire 13y ago
      Off-topic, but.... Wait, what? I recently read Mark Musa's translation of the Commedia, and that doesn't make any sense at all. The hottest places in hell are reserved for various forms of fraud, IIRC. The only link I can find about the quote with more information is: http://whatwillmatter.com/2011/11/observation-the-hottest-places-in-hell-are-reserved-for-those-who-in-time-of-moral-crisis-preserve-their-neutrality-attributed-to-dante/ http://whatwillmatter.com/2011/11/observation-the-hottest-pl... "In the Inferno, Dante and his guide Virgil, on their way to Hell, pass by a group of dead souls outside the entrance to Hell. These individuals, when alive, remained neutral at a time of great moral decision. Virgil explains to Dante that these souls cannot enter either Heaven or Hell because they did not choose one side or another." As I recall, those are the only souls whom Dante doesn't identify and have a little chat with.
rooshdi 13y ago
"Both US-persons and non-US-persons have a right to be free of routinized surveillance. This right does not spring solely from the US Fourth Amendment; it is a human and natural right as well." This cannot be overstated. Americans are no better than the rest of the world. If anything, being the masters of mass surveillance makes us worse. We're creating the big brother blueprint.
- dalek_cannes 13y ago
  As a non-US citizen, I've been repeatedly asking this about news stories emphasizing the collection of domestic communications as the bad thing. I thought your declaration of independence say that all humans are endowed with inalienable rights...
  - ClashTheBunny 13y ago
    One big misunderstanding is that the Declaration of Independence is a legally binding document today. It was a declaration of war on the British Empire; it didn't really matter anymore than a statement of values of people who started the war once it was done with that. I would look to treaties that we have signed to see what we currently legally state as human rights Treaties in Force [1]. Specifically this treaty: International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights [2]. Just make sure to check if your country is one of the countries that have agreed to the treaty and that the government who signed it is still in power. [1]: Treaties in Force - http://www.state.gov/s/l/treaty/tif/index.htm http://www.state.gov/s/l/treaty/tif/index.htm [2]: ICCPR - http://www.ohchr.org/en/professionalinterest/pages/ccpr.aspx http://www.ohchr.org/en/professionalinterest/pages/ccpr.aspx
    - dalek_cannes 13y ago
      Thanks for the links, especially ICCPR! I did know that the declaration of independence isn't legally binding, but it is a statement of principle on which America is founded, yes? Isn't it through some interpretation of it that America feels compelled to spread freedom and democracy outside its boarders? Don't get me wrong, I'm quite pro-American, but it seems weird that the US government is campaigning for our rights when our own governments are trampling on them (which I personally appreciate), but tramples on them (right to privacy in particular) when its own interests at stake.
bengrunfeld 13y ago
Like everyone, I've read a lot about the aftermath of Snowden's disclosures. This is the first time I've read an official condemnation from an industry leader. Amen.
- chopin 13y ago
  Bruce Schneier is pretty bold as well.
  - hannibal5 13y ago
    He joined EFF Board of Directors this year. He has clearly changed his tone after Snowden leaks. https://www.eff.org/press/releases/renowned-security-expert-bruce-schneier-joins-eff-board-directors https://www.eff.org/press/releases/renowned-security-expert-...
asgard1024 13y ago
Where can I sign it? (Would love to, although I am a mere non-US programmer. He should turn this to a petition.)
marcuspovey 13y ago
I would love to see everyone in the IT industry take a similar pledge. If enough of us do we can choke off the oxygen supply to these organisations, especially if we make it an unattractive career prospect for undergrads.
geertj 13y ago
"It is contrary to the ethical obligations of cryptographers, computer scientists, and engineers to participate in the development of technologies for mass surveillance. It is also a violation of professional codes of conduct." I agree. All of us developers have obligations that are higher than achieving personal wealth, or being a family breadwinner. We are the literate elite of our times. This status gives us the potential for great monetary benefit doing something we like, but it also comes with its social responsibilities.
jacquesm 13y ago
Finally someone who actually gets it that mass surveillance is wrong in principle even when it does not have US citizens as subjects. Thank you professor Rogaway.
RyanMcGreal 13y ago
> This right does not spring solely from the US Fourth Amendment; it is a human and natural right as well. As a "non-US-person", I found myself particularly moved by this line.
w_t_payne 13y ago
I used to work for Sophos, the Anti-Virus & computer security company. It was made very clear to me when I joined that they did not want to employ anybody who had ever had anything to do with hacking or writing malware, and that any hint of this would be grounds for immediate dismissal. It was also made very clear that any such individuals would be black-balled by the industry as a whole. I can only presume that this scheme would cover cases of hacking or espionage by government employees, or other such abuses of trust. Whilst I acknowledge comments that raise the spectre of McCarthy-esque witch-hunts, and I share the concerns, I do think that it would be entirely appropriate for this scheme to extend to other technology companies that bank on a trustworthy reputation, and who need to prove beyond doubt that they have not been infiltrated by individuals with a history of abusing privacy and subverting technology for malicious purposes. To an extent, this is already covered by the codes of conduct required by institutions such as the ACM, IEEE, IET, BCS and so on. I wonder if they will step up to the plate and enforce their codes of conduct (and if necessary, update them in light of recent developments). Also, employers do not normally require their programmers to be members of these institutions, and the level of membership is very low. I wonder if this should change, or if we should set up a new institution for this specific purpose?
androtheos 13y ago
I would love to have been a fly on the wall when the director of the NSA is meeting with the president telling him that the only way to ensure national security against terrorism is to start these mass surveillance systems. "Okay", says the president. "I guess if it's the only way then I'm sure the people will understand it's in their best interest" slight chuckle escapes his lips at the end. When it should have gone something like this. "Bullshit! I will not sacrifice the freedoms that are the foundations of America, simply to make your job easier on you. If you can't do the job without destroying the very freedoms you should be protecting, I'll damn well find someone who can!" Director of NSA: while stuttering "Well actually we could work together with the CIA and FBI as well as foreign intelligence to garner the necessary intel that would give us actual probable cause to start monitoring someone by legal means with a warrant and everything."
JonFish85 13y ago
So presumably the author is OK with whatever surveillance the UC school system has? Unless the U.C. school system doesn't have network monitoring installed? Is he OK with with students torrenting terabytes of information of questionable legal origin? Because I guarantee that the UC IT department has some sort of network surveillance going on. Scanning emails, possibly. Monitoring bandwidth usage by specific MAC addresses. And probably much more than that.
aet 13y ago
Will this department stop taking DoD money?

318 points by Nogwater 13y ago

Wow does "UC Davis Professor" ever bury the lede here; Phil Rogaway is one of the most famous working cryptographers. He's also notable for having patented the best known AEAD scheme and granting a free license for all nomilitary use.

B-Con 13y ago
He's one of those people who's name you can't avoid repeatedly tripping over. I took UC Davis's graduate Intro to Cryptography class from him. It was fun to see how much of crypto history he has been involved with. Interestingly (given the subject matter of this post) he is also well known on campus for teaching a very good Technology Ethics class. (Sample material here.[1]) [1]: http://www.cs.ucdavis.edu/~rogaway/classes/ http://www.cs.ucdavis.edu/~rogaway/classes/
Nogwater 13y ago
Apparently I can edit the link text, so I've done that. Normally, I'd just go with the title text, but that was was too long to fit, so I had to get a little creative. Thanks for the tip.
viraptor 13y ago
> ... and granting a free license for all nomilitary use. I never thought about this. Maybe it would be a good idea to add such clause to applications I release. It wouldn't be compatible with GPL of course, but then again... not sure which one I care about more.
- taneliv 13y ago
  Uhh, how would you define "military"? I would guess you'd be ok software used on the DARPA created Internet... What about UN peace-keeping forces, or the customs, police and other armed forces (in various countries), in which functions would they be allowed to use such software? Not to say which one is more important, but GPL (at least v2, haven't really studied v3 yet) is quite clear in its definitions and limitations. You'd do a good job defining "military" equally clearly and usefully for use in such licenses, but that might be quite a lot of work. Incidentally, "do no evil" is not a very good license exactly for the lack of a definition of evil.

rob05c 13y ago

I completely agree, about the codes of conduct bit. Any software developer who's taken part in any of this, who's an ACM member, should be ousted for gross violations of the ACM Code of Ethics http://www.acm.org/about/code-of-ethics http://www.acm.org/about/code-of-ethics

fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
Codes of Ethics mean so little, this would be a good time to make them more than lip service.
skwirl 13y ago
Wait... there are people who still think the ACM has relevance?
- shadowfox 13y ago
  When exactly did ACM lose its relevance?
  - skwirl 13y ago
    It was at least before I started college in 2002. There were some remnants of it, such as a few professors who listed it on their CVs, and we did read the code of ethics in CS1. But nothing serious and active. Maybe it's different in different parts of the country.
- D9u 13y ago
  What does the relevance of ACM have to do with the ethical obligations of professionals, be they computing, or otherwise? It's like the way the notion of Conflict of Interest has been marginalized as illustrated by no-bid contracts awarded to corporations which have strong ties to high level government employees. http://www.cs.cornell.edu/gries/howbushoperates/haliburton.html http://www.cs.cornell.edu/gries/howbushoperates/haliburton.h... http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-250_162-575356.html http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-250_162-575356.html It's like hiring a former Monsanto lobbyist to be the head of the FDA. It is objectionable. Just because some (mostly) Saudi nationals allegedly hijacked some airplanes 12 years ago that doesn't mean we have to discard our ideals in the name of some fictional "war" on an ideology.

biot 13y ago

"It is contrary to corporate responsibility for a company to assist in the creation of artifacts, such as server farms, routers, or analytic engines, intended for mass surveillance." Is there a list of companies which supply equipment and/or services to the NSA?

samstave 13y ago
Some people on reddit started looking into this: https://pay.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/1kno70/i_think_ive_found_the_company_that_produced_the/ https://pay.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/1kno70/i_think_... but they stopped looking perhaps... If you look at the link to Crunchbase's profile for Paladin Fund - that company seems to be funding all the DOD contracting tech services companies.... Edit: Also - look at every investment In-Q-Tel has made.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
bengrunfeld 13y ago
Yes. Look at the slides Snowden released when he blew the whistle. http://images.techhive.com/images/article/2013/06/prism_vendor_slide_washington_post-100041030-orig.jpg http://images.techhive.com/images/article/2013/06/prism_vend...
- biot 13y ago
  Those are companies likely forced to cooperate. I doubt the NSA issues National Security Letters forcing hardware manufacturers to sell them products.
  - bengrunfeld 13y ago
    Says who?

frob 13y ago

I am so very proud to be at UCD right now.

dandrews 13y ago
I'd be interested in your (and Rogaway's) take on the UCD pepper spray incident, then. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjXcaoEAkq4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjXcaoEAkq4
- tptacek 13y ago
  What a nauseating comment. How hypocritical of Rogaway to take a moral stand on any issue, it implies, living as he does on land stolen from Aboriginal Americans.
  - dandrews 13y ago
    Your colorful indignation is misplaced. I imply nothing about anyone's stand on the issue of mass surveillance - didn't even address the matter. You should instead have inferred my disapproval of UCD cheerleading. Nevertheless I regret mentioning Rogaway. Upon re-reading his statement I see he footnotes his affiliation with UCD but makes no claim to represent.
- fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
  US Davis paid a little over $600k to the 21 students and fired John Pike. According to SFGate the students will receive about $30k each and a written apology from the chancellor. The ACLU will get 250k for representing the students. That sounds like a reasonable outcome to me. http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/UC-Davis-pepper-sprayed-students-settle-3896116.php http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/UC-Davis-pepper-spraye...
  - dandrews 13y ago
    Thank you for this followup. I'd written the Chancellor's office, but never received a reply.

maxk42 13y ago

Amen.

pekk 13y ago
An appropriate response, since the politics of this have taken on such a dogmatic, black-and-white quality. In the same thread: calls for McCarthy-like blacklisting of programmers based on ideology. Never any nuance in these discussions: either say 'Amen' or Burn in Hell.
- patcon 13y ago
  I wish he'd just said "I agree", so that you didn't find yourself a soapbox so high up in the comments...
- etiam 13y ago
  "The hottest places in Hell are reserved for those who remain neutral in time of great moral crisis." — Dante Alighieri
  - porkpiehat 13y ago
    I get that as a quote this is relevant, but if I don't know who Alighieri is or what he did, this seems like an unsupported moral assertion. Obviously it struck you as memorable. But would you really claim that the person who does nothing is _worse_ than the one who actually perpetrated crime?
    - brohee 13y ago
      Avoiding ridicule is just a Wikipedia entry away...
  - mcguire 13y ago
    Off-topic, but.... Wait, what? I recently read Mark Musa's translation of the Commedia, and that doesn't make any sense at all. The hottest places in hell are reserved for various forms of fraud, IIRC. The only link I can find about the quote with more information is: http://whatwillmatter.com/2011/11/observation-the-hottest-places-in-hell-are-reserved-for-those-who-in-time-of-moral-crisis-preserve-their-neutrality-attributed-to-dante/ http://whatwillmatter.com/2011/11/observation-the-hottest-pl... "In the Inferno, Dante and his guide Virgil, on their way to Hell, pass by a group of dead souls outside the entrance to Hell. These individuals, when alive, remained neutral at a time of great moral decision. Virgil explains to Dante that these souls cannot enter either Heaven or Hell because they did not choose one side or another." As I recall, those are the only souls whom Dante doesn't identify and have a little chat with.

rooshdi 13y ago

"Both US-persons and non-US-persons have a right to be free of routinized surveillance. This right does not spring solely from the US Fourth Amendment; it is a human and natural right as well." This cannot be overstated. Americans are no better than the rest of the world. If anything, being the masters of mass surveillance makes us worse. We're creating the big brother blueprint.

dalek_cannes 13y ago
As a non-US citizen, I've been repeatedly asking this about news stories emphasizing the collection of domestic communications as the bad thing. I thought your declaration of independence say that all humans are endowed with inalienable rights...
- ClashTheBunny 13y ago
  One big misunderstanding is that the Declaration of Independence is a legally binding document today. It was a declaration of war on the British Empire; it didn't really matter anymore than a statement of values of people who started the war once it was done with that. I would look to treaties that we have signed to see what we currently legally state as human rights Treaties in Force [1]. Specifically this treaty: International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights [2]. Just make sure to check if your country is one of the countries that have agreed to the treaty and that the government who signed it is still in power. [1]: Treaties in Force - http://www.state.gov/s/l/treaty/tif/index.htm http://www.state.gov/s/l/treaty/tif/index.htm [2]: ICCPR - http://www.ohchr.org/en/professionalinterest/pages/ccpr.aspx http://www.ohchr.org/en/professionalinterest/pages/ccpr.aspx
  - dalek_cannes 13y ago
    Thanks for the links, especially ICCPR! I did know that the declaration of independence isn't legally binding, but it is a statement of principle on which America is founded, yes? Isn't it through some interpretation of it that America feels compelled to spread freedom and democracy outside its boarders? Don't get me wrong, I'm quite pro-American, but it seems weird that the US government is campaigning for our rights when our own governments are trampling on them (which I personally appreciate), but tramples on them (right to privacy in particular) when its own interests at stake.

bengrunfeld 13y ago

Like everyone, I've read a lot about the aftermath of Snowden's disclosures. This is the first time I've read an official condemnation from an industry leader. Amen.

chopin 13y ago
Bruce Schneier is pretty bold as well.
- hannibal5 13y ago
  He joined EFF Board of Directors this year. He has clearly changed his tone after Snowden leaks. https://www.eff.org/press/releases/renowned-security-expert-bruce-schneier-joins-eff-board-directors https://www.eff.org/press/releases/renowned-security-expert-...

asgard1024 13y ago

Where can I sign it? (Would love to, although I am a mere non-US programmer. He should turn this to a petition.)

marcuspovey 13y ago

I would love to see everyone in the IT industry take a similar pledge. If enough of us do we can choke off the oxygen supply to these organisations, especially if we make it an unattractive career prospect for undergrads.

geertj 13y ago

"It is contrary to the ethical obligations of cryptographers, computer scientists, and engineers to participate in the development of technologies for mass surveillance. It is also a violation of professional codes of conduct." I agree. All of us developers have obligations that are higher than achieving personal wealth, or being a family breadwinner. We are the literate elite of our times. This status gives us the potential for great monetary benefit doing something we like, but it also comes with its social responsibilities.

jacquesm 13y ago

Finally someone who actually gets it that mass surveillance is wrong in principle even when it does not have US citizens as subjects. Thank you professor Rogaway.

RyanMcGreal 13y ago

> This right does not spring solely from the US Fourth Amendment; it is a human and natural right as well. As a "non-US-person", I found myself particularly moved by this line.

w_t_payne 13y ago

I used to work for Sophos, the Anti-Virus & computer security company. It was made very clear to me when I joined that they did not want to employ anybody who had ever had anything to do with hacking or writing malware, and that any hint of this would be grounds for immediate dismissal. It was also made very clear that any such individuals would be black-balled by the industry as a whole. I can only presume that this scheme would cover cases of hacking or espionage by government employees, or other such abuses of trust. Whilst I acknowledge comments that raise the spectre of McCarthy-esque witch-hunts, and I share the concerns, I do think that it would be entirely appropriate for this scheme to extend to other technology companies that bank on a trustworthy reputation, and who need to prove beyond doubt that they have not been infiltrated by individuals with a history of abusing privacy and subverting technology for malicious purposes. To an extent, this is already covered by the codes of conduct required by institutions such as the ACM, IEEE, IET, BCS and so on. I wonder if they will step up to the plate and enforce their codes of conduct (and if necessary, update them in light of recent developments). Also, employers do not normally require their programmers to be members of these institutions, and the level of membership is very low. I wonder if this should change, or if we should set up a new institution for this specific purpose?

androtheos 13y ago

I would love to have been a fly on the wall when the director of the NSA is meeting with the president telling him that the only way to ensure national security against terrorism is to start these mass surveillance systems. "Okay", says the president. "I guess if it's the only way then I'm sure the people will understand it's in their best interest" slight chuckle escapes his lips at the end. When it should have gone something like this. "Bullshit! I will not sacrifice the freedoms that are the foundations of America, simply to make your job easier on you. If you can't do the job without destroying the very freedoms you should be protecting, I'll damn well find someone who can!" Director of NSA: while stuttering "Well actually we could work together with the CIA and FBI as well as foreign intelligence to garner the necessary intel that would give us actual probable cause to start monitoring someone by legal means with a warrant and everything."

JonFish85 13y ago

So presumably the author is OK with whatever surveillance the UC school system has? Unless the U.C. school system doesn't have network monitoring installed? Is he OK with with students torrenting terabytes of information of questionable legal origin? Because I guarantee that the UC IT department has some sort of network surveillance going on. Scanning emails, possibly. Monitoring bandwidth usage by specific MAC addresses. And probably much more than that.

aet 13y ago

Will this department stop taking DoD money?