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Why You Can’t Travel Back in Time and Kill Hitler

vukmir 13y ago
It appears that only Hitler can kill Hitler, and perhaps, Chuck Norris.
- brokenparser 13y ago
  Evidence suggests Chuck Norris didn't manage to kill Hitler.
  - vukmir 13y ago
    Then, we are screwed.
dingaling 13y ago
On a slight tangent, this story sent me off researching the alleged German time-manipulation project ( Die Glocke ) which led to a report about Mr Hitler's last surviving bodyguard, who died last week: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23989454 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23989454
aaronbrethorst 13y ago
Doesn't it stand to reason that if it were ever possible to travel back in time and kill Hitler that this would've already happened?
- twiceaday 13y ago
  What if by killing Hitler all future timelines ended a lot worse than this one? If it were ever possible to travel back in time, then we are living on the most optimal timeline according to some metric.
  - infogulch 13y ago
    Exactly!
  - lutusp 13y ago
    > What if by killing Hitler all future timelines ended a lot worse than this one? I always like to hear from at least one optimist. :)
- pearjuice 13y ago
  This so much. If time travel would ever become reality, wouldn't we already know?
- praptak 13y ago
  Maybe it happened, sort of. I mean our timeline being the result of killing Megahitler and replacing him with the Hitler we know and find him totally evil only because we can't compare him to Megahitler.
  - lutusp 13y ago
    > Maybe it happened, sort of. I mean our timeline being the result of killing Megahitler and replacing him with the Hitler we know and find him totally evil only because we can't compare him to Megahitler. That might be a little tongue in cheek, but in fact, Hitler made a number of very bad decisions, like invading Russia, that a MegaHitler might have avoided. The history of that time could have been much worse with someone a little less nutty in charge. I bet someone from the so-called "History Channel" is reading this and planning to turn it into a pseudo-historical TV series.
- 1123581321 13y ago
  It does not necessarily, though it is possible. 1. If it is possible to go back in time to kill Hitler, it is possible to go back in time to defend Hitler. There may be a stalemate. 2. We may be living in a timeline that is the result of killing another evil person. Hitler may be an acceptable result of that. 3. We may be at the forefront of time, i.e., there may be no future ahead of us to have already invented the time machine. Similarly, time travel may branch time so create a Hitler-less timeline for copies of ourselves (i.e. no causality.)
- ollysb 13y ago
  It may not be possible to have a stable timeline that involves time travel i.e. if time travel exists, someone always ends up travelling back and messing up the timeline so that time travel isn't discovered. If timelines which include time travel are inherently unstable then the timeline(assuming there's only) would stabilise when time travel isn't used at any point. This does leave the door open for time travel tourism though, where you just go back and observe but without changing history in any way. The method of time travel would actually have to prevent changing the past though otherwise the potential for abuse would lead you back to the unstable timeline issue.
- lutusp 13y ago
  > Doesn't it stand to reason that if it were ever possible to travel back in time and kill Hitler that this would've already happened? No, because all the idealists who went back in time to kill Hitler (believe me, they were lined up around the block, and with no expectation of a safe return), according to multiple witnesses suddenly and inexplicably vanished just as they were pulling the trigger. Theorists say that outcome may have had something to do with the fact that their own existence depended in some perverse way on Hitler's uninterrupted existence. All except Martin Bormann, who (I bet you didn't know this) went down into the bunker and killed Hitler and his girlfriend Eva Braun -- and even shot Hitler's dog Blondi -- then made up something about Hitler committing suicide, then disappeared without a trace. Of the top Nazis who survived to the end of the war, most eventually were located, but Bormann totally disappeared. There's obvious speculation the Bormann was the time traveler we all imagined could have done it, and wished we could be. Too bad he didn't act sooner -- every month that Hitler lived caused the deaths of tens to hundreds of thousands. Okay, I just made that up. Ordinarily I wouldn't have to say that, but there are so many crazy ideas uncritically embraced these days that I realize someone might take this seriously.
- qbrass 13y ago
  I wouldn't use the word 'ever'. Time travel might be discovered so far into the future that time travelers simply don't care about changing things that happened in ancient history.
- Shorel 13y ago
  I would have killed Muhammad instead.
tjaerv 13y ago
"One of the bylaws of the International Association of Time Travelers states that you can't kill Hitler. The problem is, everybody kills Hitler on their first trip. This leaves more experienced time travelers the onerous task of undoing the historical edits of n00bs." http://www.tor.com/stories/2011/08/wikihistory http://www.tor.com/stories/2011/08/wikihistory
- afterburner 13y ago
  That's hilarious, but the justification they give for not killing Hitler is unfortunately pretty weak: "no Hitler means no Third Reich, no World War II, no rocketry programs, no electronics, no computers, no time travel." But still worth a read!
brokenparser 13y ago
The true reason is probably much simpler than any of those considering war has a profound impact wherever it strikes. WW1&2 were triggered by a long chain of events and itself sparked another chain of ongoing events, affecting great many lives dead or not (including myself). If it all possible, you may have to mate with an ancestor to get your own life back.
- Houshalter 13y ago
  That's true for everything, with the whole butterfly effect. Just opening the door to the time machine and walking outside is enough to change history completely. Imagine someone has sex in a different position or at a slightly different time. A different sperm reaches the egg, a different person is born. Not only will that affect all their descendants (which is pretty much the entire human race after a few centuries), but all the people they would have known or interacted with.
  - afterburner 13y ago
    It's the opposite of the butterfly effect, he's more likely arguing that WW2 was built on the frustrations and ideologies thrust forth as a result of WW1, so merely killing one angry officer isn't necessarily going to avoid one or another catastrophe involving war and genocide. WW2 might in fact have been unavoidable (not sure whether this is true or not, but it might be). Some other racist charismatic dude might just take his place, ready to harness whatever ill will there was around him/her. (Well, probably "him".)
    - brokenparser 13y ago
      Not sure if my attempted humour is that bad, or so advanced it wooshed straight over your heads.
      - afterburner 13y ago
        Changing the past while at the same time vanishing yourself from existence is still changing the past... but I will consider your proposed remedy when it comes up.
Houshalter 13y ago
I hate explanations like "you can't change history". It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. You don't kill Hitler because you didn't kill Hitler.
sentenza 13y ago
This whole issue leads to a dark place (intellectually). Would you be alive today without WW2 or without the Holocaust? I wouldn't. How am I supposed to feel about that?
bane 13y ago
If you subscribe to the multi-verse theory, then you can. Except when you "return" to your own time, you are forced to travel to a present where you did kill Hitler. Your own original time, where you didn't hill Hitler continues on as it was except you can no longer travel there. Killer Hitler is like throwing a railroad switch and changing tracks, once entropy send you down the new track, there's no hopping back across. And even if you could you'd just be going to a present time where you failed to kill Hitler.
autodidakto 13y ago
As always, tvtropes already has the answer: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HitlersTimeTravelExemptionAct http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HitlersTimeTravel... See also: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TimeTravelTropes http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TimeTravelTropes Warning: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TVTropesWillRuinYourLife http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TVTropesWillRuinY...

It appears that only Hitler can kill Hitler, and perhaps, Chuck Norris.

brokenparser 13y ago
Evidence suggests Chuck Norris didn't manage to kill Hitler.
- vukmir 13y ago
  Then, we are screwed.

On a slight tangent, this story sent me off researching the alleged German time-manipulation project ( Die Glocke ) which led to a report about Mr Hitler's last surviving bodyguard, who died last week: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23989454 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23989454

aaronbrethorst 13y ago

Doesn't it stand to reason that if it were ever possible to travel back in time and kill Hitler that this would've already happened?

twiceaday 13y ago
What if by killing Hitler all future timelines ended a lot worse than this one? If it were ever possible to travel back in time, then we are living on the most optimal timeline according to some metric.
- infogulch 13y ago
  Exactly!
- lutusp 13y ago
  > What if by killing Hitler all future timelines ended a lot worse than this one? I always like to hear from at least one optimist. :)
pearjuice 13y ago
This so much. If time travel would ever become reality, wouldn't we already know?
praptak 13y ago
Maybe it happened, sort of. I mean our timeline being the result of killing Megahitler and replacing him with the Hitler we know and find him totally evil only because we can't compare him to Megahitler.
- lutusp 13y ago
  > Maybe it happened, sort of. I mean our timeline being the result of killing Megahitler and replacing him with the Hitler we know and find him totally evil only because we can't compare him to Megahitler. That might be a little tongue in cheek, but in fact, Hitler made a number of very bad decisions, like invading Russia, that a MegaHitler might have avoided. The history of that time could have been much worse with someone a little less nutty in charge. I bet someone from the so-called "History Channel" is reading this and planning to turn it into a pseudo-historical TV series.
1123581321 13y ago
It does not necessarily, though it is possible. 1. If it is possible to go back in time to kill Hitler, it is possible to go back in time to defend Hitler. There may be a stalemate. 2. We may be living in a timeline that is the result of killing another evil person. Hitler may be an acceptable result of that. 3. We may be at the forefront of time, i.e., there may be no future ahead of us to have already invented the time machine. Similarly, time travel may branch time so create a Hitler-less timeline for copies of ourselves (i.e. no causality.)
ollysb 13y ago
It may not be possible to have a stable timeline that involves time travel i.e. if time travel exists, someone always ends up travelling back and messing up the timeline so that time travel isn't discovered. If timelines which include time travel are inherently unstable then the timeline(assuming there's only) would stabilise when time travel isn't used at any point. This does leave the door open for time travel tourism though, where you just go back and observe but without changing history in any way. The method of time travel would actually have to prevent changing the past though otherwise the potential for abuse would lead you back to the unstable timeline issue.
lutusp 13y ago
> Doesn't it stand to reason that if it were ever possible to travel back in time and kill Hitler that this would've already happened? No, because all the idealists who went back in time to kill Hitler (believe me, they were lined up around the block, and with no expectation of a safe return), according to multiple witnesses suddenly and inexplicably vanished just as they were pulling the trigger. Theorists say that outcome may have had something to do with the fact that their own existence depended in some perverse way on Hitler's uninterrupted existence. All except Martin Bormann, who (I bet you didn't know this) went down into the bunker and killed Hitler and his girlfriend Eva Braun -- and even shot Hitler's dog Blondi -- then made up something about Hitler committing suicide, then disappeared without a trace. Of the top Nazis who survived to the end of the war, most eventually were located, but Bormann totally disappeared. There's obvious speculation the Bormann was the time traveler we all imagined could have done it, and wished we could be. Too bad he didn't act sooner -- every month that Hitler lived caused the deaths of tens to hundreds of thousands. Okay, I just made that up. Ordinarily I wouldn't have to say that, but there are so many crazy ideas uncritically embraced these days that I realize someone might take this seriously.
qbrass 13y ago
I wouldn't use the word 'ever'. Time travel might be discovered so far into the future that time travelers simply don't care about changing things that happened in ancient history.
Shorel 13y ago
I would have killed Muhammad instead.

tjaerv 13y ago

"One of the bylaws of the International Association of Time Travelers states that you can't kill Hitler. The problem is, everybody kills Hitler on their first trip. This leaves more experienced time travelers the onerous task of undoing the historical edits of n00bs." http://www.tor.com/stories/2011/08/wikihistory http://www.tor.com/stories/2011/08/wikihistory

afterburner 13y ago
That's hilarious, but the justification they give for not killing Hitler is unfortunately pretty weak: "no Hitler means no Third Reich, no World War II, no rocketry programs, no electronics, no computers, no time travel." But still worth a read!

brokenparser 13y ago

The true reason is probably much simpler than any of those considering war has a profound impact wherever it strikes. WW1&2 were triggered by a long chain of events and itself sparked another chain of ongoing events, affecting great many lives dead or not (including myself). If it all possible, you may have to mate with an ancestor to get your own life back.

Houshalter 13y ago
That's true for everything, with the whole butterfly effect. Just opening the door to the time machine and walking outside is enough to change history completely. Imagine someone has sex in a different position or at a slightly different time. A different sperm reaches the egg, a different person is born. Not only will that affect all their descendants (which is pretty much the entire human race after a few centuries), but all the people they would have known or interacted with.
- afterburner 13y ago
  It's the opposite of the butterfly effect, he's more likely arguing that WW2 was built on the frustrations and ideologies thrust forth as a result of WW1, so merely killing one angry officer isn't necessarily going to avoid one or another catastrophe involving war and genocide. WW2 might in fact have been unavoidable (not sure whether this is true or not, but it might be). Some other racist charismatic dude might just take his place, ready to harness whatever ill will there was around him/her. (Well, probably "him".)
  - brokenparser 13y ago
    Not sure if my attempted humour is that bad, or so advanced it wooshed straight over your heads.
    - afterburner 13y ago
      Changing the past while at the same time vanishing yourself from existence is still changing the past... but I will consider your proposed remedy when it comes up.

Houshalter 13y ago

I hate explanations like "you can't change history". It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. You don't kill Hitler because you didn't kill Hitler.

sentenza 13y ago

This whole issue leads to a dark place (intellectually). Would you be alive today without WW2 or without the Holocaust? I wouldn't. How am I supposed to feel about that?

bane 13y ago

If you subscribe to the multi-verse theory, then you can. Except when you "return" to your own time, you are forced to travel to a present where you did kill Hitler. Your own original time, where you didn't hill Hitler continues on as it was except you can no longer travel there. Killer Hitler is like throwing a railroad switch and changing tracks, once entropy send you down the new track, there's no hopping back across. And even if you could you'd just be going to a present time where you failed to kill Hitler.

autodidakto 13y ago

As always, tvtropes already has the answer: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HitlersTimeTravelExemptionAct http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HitlersTimeTravel... See also: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TimeTravelTropes http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TimeTravelTropes Warning: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TVTropesWillRuinYourLife http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TVTropesWillRuinY...