8 ms·

Theranos is a medical laboratory that appears to have developed new methods of measuring lab values in small sample sizes more quickly. This is interesting beca

Theranos is a medical laboratory that appears to have developed new methods of measuring lab values in small sample sizes more quickly. This is interesting because it means that instead of a traditional blood draw with a needle and vial requiring a trained phlebotomist and healthy veins, physicians can use blood collected from a finger stick -- a far less invasive and painful procedure. Additionally, it appears that they've managed to keep costs very low by automating everything -- this also improves their accuracy. I would love to get a look at their technology and implementation. From a biogeek's perspective this is insanely great.

justinjlynn 13y ago
With the volumes they're dealing with and the automation they tout I bet they're using integrated microfluidic chips with built in sensor technology. That's so cool and it makes sense given the time they spent in stealth mode since that's a rather new technology and getting it certified must've taken some time. Looking a patents and bingo, they have patents on microfluidic techniques. Awesome. Eventually they might have a medlab in a box -- neat.
- aharrison 13y ago
  You appear to be interested and aware of the current state of clinical chemistry. Are you aware of any HN/Slashdot-esque sites for this pursuit? One of my main areas of hobbyist interest this year is biochemical assays and health diagnostic mechanisms, but there is a lot of chaff in my google searches. Any pointers would be appreciated. My email is in my profile if you would like to discuss it more in depth.
  - ihnorton 13y ago
    The diybio mailing list has many interesting discussions: http://diybio.org/ http://diybio.org/
    - aharrison 13y ago
      I have looked at the DIYBio groups on a number of occasions, and while they are fascinating it their own right, they aren't quite what I am interested in. DIYBio (as far as I can tell) is considerably more interested in DNA sequencing and genetics, whereas I am more interested in diagnostic tools for improving my quality and quantity of life. An example of something I am interested in is: http://jenslabs.com/category/electronics/ketosis-detector/ http://jenslabs.com/category/electronics/ketosis-detector/ but my more general question is: how can we do everything a standard blood panel does now, except do it extremely frequently (e.g. daily or hourly or even continuously) and noninvasively or as close as is feasible. Of course, I know very little about the field, so this might all be the equivalent of "Hey guys, I know a little HTML and I was wondering if I could build a MMORPG..." posts on gamedev, but hey, gotta start somewhere. :D
      - hershel 13y ago
        There's diagnostics for all which is working on paper based diagnostics. They are so cheap , that they target them for the third world. And they only need a blood drop. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/27/health/27paper.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/27/health/27paper.html?pagewa... And this site also looks interesting: http://www.mf20.org/ http://www.mf20.org/
      - ihnorton 13y ago
        > "Hey guys, I know a little HTML and I was wondering if I could build a MMORPG..." Yes... But here's one place to start (somewhat analagous to "read Accelerated C++ and the OpenGL red book"): http://www.amazon.com/Practical-Flow-Cytometry-Howard-Shapiro/dp/0471411256 http://www.amazon.com/Practical-Flow-Cytometry-Howard-Shapir...
      - deleted 13y ago
        [deleted]
- spartango 13y ago
  Given that they are going up against massive, automated operations like those of Labcorp and Quest Diagnostics ($9B market cap each), they'll probably need this tech to keep up. While the thumb-prick and low sample volumes are cool, in the grand scheme of patient care they are somewhat gimmicky. Until doctors request higher-frequency testing, this doesn't pinch that hard. Still cool. The big sign that they need to be wielding novel capabilities to compete with Quest and Labcorp is the offering of their menu at half of the medicare reimbursement rate. Each of those companies run ~40% gross margins off of medicare reimbursement, so Theranos without novel tech would be running a pretty substantial loss.
  - rschmitty 13y ago
    Low volume samples are important in pediatrics at least (wife a Dr) At the hospital she works all of their samples are low volume already. Plus critical kids get ffrequent samples depending on the level of monitoring needed. For babies you obviously have no choice or they could become anemic. Plus not all kids like seeing a vial fill up.
    - spartango 13y ago
      Ah yea, I forgot about this application. It's definitely a good one, although for some reason Theranos isn't explicit about targeting it.
      - emhs 13y ago
        They are implicit, though, as the copy about small sample sizes is paired with a photo of a nervous child.
  - caycep 13y ago
    Have you set foot inside a Quest or Labcorp location? They are pretty terrible. Definitely a disruptable space...
  - pdonis 13y ago
    Until doctors request higher-frequency testing What about patients wanting higher-frequency testing? What if the test machine were sitting in my local drugstore, and I could go in, swipe my credit card, and have it run a test on a drop of my blood whenever I wanted to?
carbocation 13y ago
I'd say it's more painful than a blood draw if the phlebotomist gets it right on the first stick, less painful if the phlebotomist is going to have to try many times or go for atypical access sites. I'd be more wary of potassium and other electrolytes, but it would be interesting to see a comparison to venipuncture.
ChuckMcM 13y ago
That is a pretty stunning board of directors as well. I don't doubt their CEO can get an introduction to, and lunch with, nearly anyone on the planet.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- jedc 13y ago
  Fascinating that they're all national security related, except for the ex-CEO of Wells Fargo. I'm honestly curious how that came about...
  - caycep 13y ago
    maybe some sort of outgrowth from rapid triage/battlefield medicine tech? I know there's been a lot of pentagon efforts to figure out how to treat soldiers in the field more quickly, but mostly with trauma applications.
- spartango 13y ago
  This board seems heavily geared to do deals for defense-related applications. That's fine; getting deals with the Armed Forces and VA is feasible and quite rewarding. What they overtly lack is connections to the healthcare world. I'm surprised they aren't publicly roped into Cleveland Clinic, Mayo Clinic or Kaiser, as they to support novel technologies in this space. I suppose you can argue that the business model is fundamentally incompatible, but I've seen Mayo and Kaiser go in anyway; they can acquire these labs and roll them into operations pretty easily.
  - mr_luc 13y ago
    Serious question: what economic incentive does the healthcare world have to adopt something like this? If it's a finger prick, there's less to mark up. From the outside, it seems like the entire healthcare industry is built on being purposefully inefficient so as to create large costs that they can in turn mark up. To the VA, inefficiency is a problem. In the healthcare world in general, it doesn't seem to bother anyone.

justinjlynn 13y ago

With the volumes they're dealing with and the automation they tout I bet they're using integrated microfluidic chips with built in sensor technology. That's so cool and it makes sense given the time they spent in stealth mode since that's a rather new technology and getting it certified must've taken some time. Looking a patents and bingo, they have patents on microfluidic techniques. Awesome. Eventually they might have a medlab in a box -- neat.

aharrison 13y ago
You appear to be interested and aware of the current state of clinical chemistry. Are you aware of any HN/Slashdot-esque sites for this pursuit? One of my main areas of hobbyist interest this year is biochemical assays and health diagnostic mechanisms, but there is a lot of chaff in my google searches. Any pointers would be appreciated. My email is in my profile if you would like to discuss it more in depth.
- ihnorton 13y ago
  The diybio mailing list has many interesting discussions: http://diybio.org/ http://diybio.org/
  - aharrison 13y ago
    I have looked at the DIYBio groups on a number of occasions, and while they are fascinating it their own right, they aren't quite what I am interested in. DIYBio (as far as I can tell) is considerably more interested in DNA sequencing and genetics, whereas I am more interested in diagnostic tools for improving my quality and quantity of life. An example of something I am interested in is: http://jenslabs.com/category/electronics/ketosis-detector/ http://jenslabs.com/category/electronics/ketosis-detector/ but my more general question is: how can we do everything a standard blood panel does now, except do it extremely frequently (e.g. daily or hourly or even continuously) and noninvasively or as close as is feasible. Of course, I know very little about the field, so this might all be the equivalent of "Hey guys, I know a little HTML and I was wondering if I could build a MMORPG..." posts on gamedev, but hey, gotta start somewhere. :D
    - hershel 13y ago
      There's diagnostics for all which is working on paper based diagnostics. They are so cheap , that they target them for the third world. And they only need a blood drop. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/27/health/27paper.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/27/health/27paper.html?pagewa... And this site also looks interesting: http://www.mf20.org/ http://www.mf20.org/
    - ihnorton 13y ago
      > "Hey guys, I know a little HTML and I was wondering if I could build a MMORPG..." Yes... But here's one place to start (somewhat analagous to "read Accelerated C++ and the OpenGL red book"): http://www.amazon.com/Practical-Flow-Cytometry-Howard-Shapiro/dp/0471411256 http://www.amazon.com/Practical-Flow-Cytometry-Howard-Shapir...
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
spartango 13y ago
Given that they are going up against massive, automated operations like those of Labcorp and Quest Diagnostics ($9B market cap each), they'll probably need this tech to keep up. While the thumb-prick and low sample volumes are cool, in the grand scheme of patient care they are somewhat gimmicky. Until doctors request higher-frequency testing, this doesn't pinch that hard. Still cool. The big sign that they need to be wielding novel capabilities to compete with Quest and Labcorp is the offering of their menu at half of the medicare reimbursement rate. Each of those companies run ~40% gross margins off of medicare reimbursement, so Theranos without novel tech would be running a pretty substantial loss.
- rschmitty 13y ago
  Low volume samples are important in pediatrics at least (wife a Dr) At the hospital she works all of their samples are low volume already. Plus critical kids get ffrequent samples depending on the level of monitoring needed. For babies you obviously have no choice or they could become anemic. Plus not all kids like seeing a vial fill up.
  - spartango 13y ago
    Ah yea, I forgot about this application. It's definitely a good one, although for some reason Theranos isn't explicit about targeting it.
    - emhs 13y ago
      They are implicit, though, as the copy about small sample sizes is paired with a photo of a nervous child.
- caycep 13y ago
  Have you set foot inside a Quest or Labcorp location? They are pretty terrible. Definitely a disruptable space...
- pdonis 13y ago
  Until doctors request higher-frequency testing What about patients wanting higher-frequency testing? What if the test machine were sitting in my local drugstore, and I could go in, swipe my credit card, and have it run a test on a drop of my blood whenever I wanted to?

carbocation 13y ago

I'd say it's more painful than a blood draw if the phlebotomist gets it right on the first stick, less painful if the phlebotomist is going to have to try many times or go for atypical access sites. I'd be more wary of potassium and other electrolytes, but it would be interesting to see a comparison to venipuncture.

ChuckMcM 13y ago

That is a pretty stunning board of directors as well. I don't doubt their CEO can get an introduction to, and lunch with, nearly anyone on the planet.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
jedc 13y ago
Fascinating that they're all national security related, except for the ex-CEO of Wells Fargo. I'm honestly curious how that came about...
- caycep 13y ago
  maybe some sort of outgrowth from rapid triage/battlefield medicine tech? I know there's been a lot of pentagon efforts to figure out how to treat soldiers in the field more quickly, but mostly with trauma applications.
spartango 13y ago
This board seems heavily geared to do deals for defense-related applications. That's fine; getting deals with the Armed Forces and VA is feasible and quite rewarding. What they overtly lack is connections to the healthcare world. I'm surprised they aren't publicly roped into Cleveland Clinic, Mayo Clinic or Kaiser, as they to support novel technologies in this space. I suppose you can argue that the business model is fundamentally incompatible, but I've seen Mayo and Kaiser go in anyway; they can acquire these labs and roll them into operations pretty easily.
- mr_luc 13y ago
  Serious question: what economic incentive does the healthcare world have to adopt something like this? If it's a finger prick, there's less to mark up. From the outside, it seems like the entire healthcare industry is built on being purposefully inefficient so as to create large costs that they can in turn mark up. To the VA, inefficiency is a problem. In the healthcare world in general, it doesn't seem to bother anyone.