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particularly galling pull-out para: "Together the permission to search and to keep data longer expanded the NSA’s authority in significant ways without public

particularly galling pull-out para: "Together the permission to search and to keep data longer expanded the NSA’s authority in significant ways without public debate or any specific authority from Congress. The administration’s assurances rely on legalistic definitions of the term “target” that can be at odds with ordinary English usage. The enlarged authority is part of a fundamental shift in the government’s approach to surveillance: collecting first, and protecting Americans’ privacy later." The Cheney administration was openly deceitful, as it were, a brazen set of liars fronted by an idiot stooge. This turn of events - particularly given Obama's rhetoric and the expectations of him - seems in many ways much more insidiously dangerous.

protomyth 13y ago
It's pretty hard to take your point seriously when your second paragraph is so clearly wrong and more a SNL sketch than reality. No President in the modern era has been stupid. The psychotic need to perpetuate this is one of the ideas making politics in the USA worse than it should be. The evidence and interviews with the former President show him to be very intelligent.
- milesf 13y ago
  So what if he's smart? As if smart has anything to do with being honest and moral. Give me honesty and integrity over IQ points any day.
  - protomyth 13y ago
    I am pointing out what was written which was utter BS. As to his honesty or morality, history will have some interesting comparisons versus his predecessor and successor.
    - forkandwait 13y ago
      Oh -- I do believe he had a better marriage than Bill Clinton. Who cares? He was still a laughable fuckup as president.
      - wyclif 13y ago
        Obama is at least at the same level on the fuckup and laughability meter, esp. wrt the international community.
        toyg 13y ago
        Not quite, but if he really bombs Syria, then yeah, he'll definitely enter GWB territory.
- forkandwait 13y ago
  What evidence shows Bush Junior to be particularly bright or competent? His grades at Yale? His running into the ground of multiple business? His embarassing performance as President? Don't get me wrong -- there are a lot of smart, competent conservatives I think are sometimes wrong and or just on a different side of class interest from me. Say, Dick Cheney, Bush Senior, Ronald, Nixon (off the charts smart, really). But George Junior was, indeed, an idiotic stooge.
  - protomyth 13y ago
    The people who worked for him have pointed out he was quite a lot smarter than them[1]. The interviews he gave during his library's opening. Dick Cheney has said Bush is smarter than him. This SNL BS is seriously messing with how people think. It's like the number of people who believe Ford was an unathletic clutz. 1) one example http://keithhennessey.com/2013/04/24/smarter/ http://keithhennessey.com/2013/04/24/smarter/
    - forkandwait 13y ago
      Cool. His friends like him and wrote a blog post about it ;) I still think history will judge his administration as being 8 years of screw-up, class warfare, and embarassment. Note that I am not saying that about his Dad, Ronald, or Richard....
      - wyclif 13y ago
        If history will judge Bush poorly, how will they judge Obama in the context of continuing Bush's policies? Embarrassment? Check. Screw-ups (including Syria)? Check. Pressuring/intimidating foreign governments not to grant Snowden asylum? Check. Drone striking children? Check. Sending admin flacks out to say that Benghazi was caused by a YouTube video? Check. BTW, the Obama admin has zero evidence in public of scientific samples or intel proving use of sarin gas by the Syrian government: http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE98603A20130907?irpc=932 http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE98603A20130907?irpc... Reality check: Obama and Bush are cut from very similar policy cloth. Both warmongers and NSA expansionists who don't give a damn about the civil liberties of the American public.
pkaler 13y ago
> The Cheney administration was openly deceitful, as it were, a brazen set of liars fronted by an idiot stooge. This turn of events - particularly given Obama's rhetoric and the expectations of him - seems in many ways much more insidiously dangerous. "Villains who twirl their mustaches are easy to spot. Those who clothe themselves in good deeds are well camouflaged." -- Captain Picard
- ihsw 13y ago
  These parts are also nice: > We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. And then, before you can blink an eye, suddenly it threatens to start all over again. and > Maybe. But she or someone like her will always be with us, waiting for the right climate in which to flourish--spreading fear in the name of righteousness. Vigilance, Mr. Worf. That is the price we have to continually pay.
espeed 13y ago
The Cheney administration was openly deceitful, as it were, a brazen set of liars fronted by an idiot stooge. This turn of events - particularly given Obama's rhetoric and the expectations of him - seems in many ways much more insidiously dangerous. That's one way to look at it. Another is that the policies were put in place under Bush/Cheney, and they are being exposed under Obama. Obama ran on transparency, and things are definitely becoming more transparent, albeit through unconventional means. Politics is a complicated game and a delicate balancing act, especially when its intertwined with the military, the agencies, and the powers that be. We may be observing a complex line on the grand chessboard, and unless we are able to see the whole board, we won't fully understand the moves or the strategy in play.
- wyclif 13y ago
  Obama ran on transparency, but that turned out to be a total lie. Blaming Bush/Cheney for Obama's failures is just a way for the people who voted for him to assuage their hypocrisy. The reality is that the Obama admin is far more like Bush's admin, and is contiguous with it in terms of policy.
  - espeed 13y ago
    I am not what you would call an Obama advocate. But just like watching what people do can reveal more than listening to what people say, observing the effects in a complex system can reveal more than focusing on the mesmerizing flap of its butterfly wings.
- einhverfr 13y ago
  Indeed, it is worth noting that some of Obama's campaign promises have actually been fulfilled, albeit despite his best efforts....
  - espeed 13y ago
    Remember in Obama's first term, the GOP strategy was strict opposition. But now Obama's positions on present issues make strict opposition more difficult because he is, on face value, supporting many GOP policies. There seems to be a bit of "don't throw me in the briar patch" mixed in with a dash of "gaffes" and "blunders". This surreal stew may be designed to complicate the GOP's public policy opposition strategy. And in the case of Syria, even Bush's ex-admins are split on what to do (http://www.politico.com/story/2013/08/bush-vets-split-on-syria-96077.html http://www.politico.com/story/2013/08/bush-vets-split-on-syr...).

protomyth 13y ago

It's pretty hard to take your point seriously when your second paragraph is so clearly wrong and more a SNL sketch than reality. No President in the modern era has been stupid. The psychotic need to perpetuate this is one of the ideas making politics in the USA worse than it should be. The evidence and interviews with the former President show him to be very intelligent.

milesf 13y ago
So what if he's smart? As if smart has anything to do with being honest and moral. Give me honesty and integrity over IQ points any day.
- protomyth 13y ago
  I am pointing out what was written which was utter BS. As to his honesty or morality, history will have some interesting comparisons versus his predecessor and successor.
  - forkandwait 13y ago
    Oh -- I do believe he had a better marriage than Bill Clinton. Who cares? He was still a laughable fuckup as president.
    - wyclif 13y ago
      Obama is at least at the same level on the fuckup and laughability meter, esp. wrt the international community.
      - toyg 13y ago
        Not quite, but if he really bombs Syria, then yeah, he'll definitely enter GWB territory.
forkandwait 13y ago
What evidence shows Bush Junior to be particularly bright or competent? His grades at Yale? His running into the ground of multiple business? His embarassing performance as President? Don't get me wrong -- there are a lot of smart, competent conservatives I think are sometimes wrong and or just on a different side of class interest from me. Say, Dick Cheney, Bush Senior, Ronald, Nixon (off the charts smart, really). But George Junior was, indeed, an idiotic stooge.
- protomyth 13y ago
  The people who worked for him have pointed out he was quite a lot smarter than them[1]. The interviews he gave during his library's opening. Dick Cheney has said Bush is smarter than him. This SNL BS is seriously messing with how people think. It's like the number of people who believe Ford was an unathletic clutz. 1) one example http://keithhennessey.com/2013/04/24/smarter/ http://keithhennessey.com/2013/04/24/smarter/
  - forkandwait 13y ago
    Cool. His friends like him and wrote a blog post about it ;) I still think history will judge his administration as being 8 years of screw-up, class warfare, and embarassment. Note that I am not saying that about his Dad, Ronald, or Richard....
    - wyclif 13y ago
      If history will judge Bush poorly, how will they judge Obama in the context of continuing Bush's policies? Embarrassment? Check. Screw-ups (including Syria)? Check. Pressuring/intimidating foreign governments not to grant Snowden asylum? Check. Drone striking children? Check. Sending admin flacks out to say that Benghazi was caused by a YouTube video? Check. BTW, the Obama admin has zero evidence in public of scientific samples or intel proving use of sarin gas by the Syrian government: http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE98603A20130907?irpc=932 http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE98603A20130907?irpc... Reality check: Obama and Bush are cut from very similar policy cloth. Both warmongers and NSA expansionists who don't give a damn about the civil liberties of the American public.

pkaler 13y ago

> The Cheney administration was openly deceitful, as it were, a brazen set of liars fronted by an idiot stooge. This turn of events - particularly given Obama's rhetoric and the expectations of him - seems in many ways much more insidiously dangerous. "Villains who twirl their mustaches are easy to spot. Those who clothe themselves in good deeds are well camouflaged." -- Captain Picard

ihsw 13y ago
These parts are also nice: > We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. And then, before you can blink an eye, suddenly it threatens to start all over again. and > Maybe. But she or someone like her will always be with us, waiting for the right climate in which to flourish--spreading fear in the name of righteousness. Vigilance, Mr. Worf. That is the price we have to continually pay.

espeed 13y ago

The Cheney administration was openly deceitful, as it were, a brazen set of liars fronted by an idiot stooge. This turn of events - particularly given Obama's rhetoric and the expectations of him - seems in many ways much more insidiously dangerous. That's one way to look at it. Another is that the policies were put in place under Bush/Cheney, and they are being exposed under Obama. Obama ran on transparency, and things are definitely becoming more transparent, albeit through unconventional means. Politics is a complicated game and a delicate balancing act, especially when its intertwined with the military, the agencies, and the powers that be. We may be observing a complex line on the grand chessboard, and unless we are able to see the whole board, we won't fully understand the moves or the strategy in play.

wyclif 13y ago
Obama ran on transparency, but that turned out to be a total lie. Blaming Bush/Cheney for Obama's failures is just a way for the people who voted for him to assuage their hypocrisy. The reality is that the Obama admin is far more like Bush's admin, and is contiguous with it in terms of policy.
- espeed 13y ago
  I am not what you would call an Obama advocate. But just like watching what people do can reveal more than listening to what people say, observing the effects in a complex system can reveal more than focusing on the mesmerizing flap of its butterfly wings.
einhverfr 13y ago
Indeed, it is worth noting that some of Obama's campaign promises have actually been fulfilled, albeit despite his best efforts....
- espeed 13y ago
  Remember in Obama's first term, the GOP strategy was strict opposition. But now Obama's positions on present issues make strict opposition more difficult because he is, on face value, supporting many GOP policies. There seems to be a bit of "don't throw me in the briar patch" mixed in with a dash of "gaffes" and "blunders". This surreal stew may be designed to complicate the GOP's public policy opposition strategy. And in the case of Syria, even Bush's ex-admins are split on what to do (http://www.politico.com/story/2013/08/bush-vets-split-on-syria-96077.html http://www.politico.com/story/2013/08/bush-vets-split-on-syr...).