8 ms·

As a citizen, this is impossible to fight. This issue is regularly floated by both "sides" of politics, usually to much criticism (on both technical and moral

As a citizen, this is impossible to fight. This issue is regularly floated by both "sides" of politics, usually to much criticism (on both technical and moral grounds). It is like the Hydra - chop off one head and it will simply grow two more. This time the policy announcement is especially reprehensible, coming 48 hours before an election which is all but decided in advance and buried in fine-print. No doubt the new government will announce that it has "a clear mandate" to implement the filter as it was tucked away in their last-minute policy announcements.

Wingman4l7 13y ago
It's really depressing -- I recall when I used to browse Slashdot a few years ago, all you would ever see tagged "Australia" was censorship and filter proposals. EDIT: Also depressing is how long the relevant Wikipedia article is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_Australia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_Austral...
- ballard 13y ago
  That might ax a few plans for US -> AU citizenry. What country without US extradition is the most socio-libertarian/anarchist friendly?
  - Wingman4l7 13y ago
    Good luck with that -- it's a royal PITA to get citizenship in AU. Usually the countries without US extradition treaties have much more worrying issues, like abysmal civil / human rights records, IIRC. Also, it doesn't stop the US from leaning on them to extradite you as a special case, anyway.
    - ballard 13y ago
      Sometimes what is good is difficult to attain. Otherwise everyone would. (It's a good thing a dear friend is an immigration atty.)
  - contingencies 13y ago
    What country without US extradition is the most socio-libertarian/anarchist friendly? NZ can't be worse than AU. I am a citizen of both (and DE) and plan to move to NZ myself.
    - Wingman4l7 13y ago
      Didn't NZ have that whole fiasco with kowtowing to the US and sending a SWAT team after Kim Dotcom?
      - contingencies 13y ago
        After which the prime minister (president equivalent) immediately personally apologised, flamed the police minister, and they have since been good about the whole thing.
  - petercooper 13y ago
    Pick a country from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:United_States_extradition_treaties_countries.PNG http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:United_States_extradition_... that's in gray. I think you'd be looking at Vietnam, Andorra, or Croatia, although you could hardly say any were ideal by those measures.
    - luke_s 13y ago
      Owww, actually looking at the map I would suggest Taiwan!
      - ballard 13y ago
        Taiwan's cool.
    - ballard 13y ago
      Croatia is a thought. Some Croatian friends mentioned property values are skyrocketing because of pervasive construction. Split is nice too.
      - petercooper 13y ago
        Absolutely beautiful coastline and an EU member too (which, I suspect, will mean an extradition treaty with the US will probably apply at some point).
        ballard 13y ago
        https://goo.gl/maps/HcAHM https://goo.gl/maps/HcAHM
derefr 13y ago
What do they think doing this serves, in their opinion? In the US, there's at least the excuse that there's this big block of neoconservative religious-fundamentalists to win the votes of. Does Australia have those too?
- elnate 13y ago
  Different, but effectively yes.
- pavs 13y ago
  I was under the impression that Australia is much much more conservative in general compare to USA.
  - derefr 13y ago
    ("Conservative" doesn't necessarily mean "socially paternalistic along Old-Testament Christian lines" in most countries, though; thus the question.)
  - vacri 13y ago
    Both of of the US's major political parties are more conservative than the Australian major conservative party. Particularly when it comes to fighting crime (when our police started fucking up with SWAT tactics, they were stopped in short order) and waging war. Outside of politics, it really depends on what you look at. There's certainly a strong urge to conform in mainstream anglo America (clipped lawns, identical houses, visible laundry is unsightly, etc) that doesn't really have a parallel here, but on the other hand, Americans are a bit more socially outgoing than Australians.
    - Wingman4l7 13y ago
      AU political party names were very confusing for me; the Liberal party is politically conservative, and both parties are more liberal than the US. =P AU successfully managed to de-militarize its police force? The US needs to use you guys as a case study! However, I suspect that you were only able to do that because of your very low tolerance for firearms violence, as evidenced by the near-complete disarmament of your civilian population via that massive buyback program & subsequent legislation after the Port Arthur massacre. I wouldn't be surprised if US citizens like the idea of a militarized police, ready to respond with overwhelming force to whatever movie-plot terrorists happen to pop up.
ballard 13y ago
It's a moral panic [0]. If filtering doesn't happen immediately, fear may be exploited and politicians will have to find something else to procrastinate on rather than tackling real issues (poverty, health care, budget waste). [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_panic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_panic
davegardner 13y ago
Just one of many good reasons to vote Greens in the senate.
- RWeaver 13y ago
  Or pirate party!
  - chii 13y ago
    yes to the pirate party. Even tho they are unlikely to garner any actual majority, giving them your vote means that they could potentially affect policy.
  - ed_blackburn 13y ago
    The Pirate Party could be the best party on the ballot, however if it wants people to vote for it, it should consider a non-churlish name. I can relate to a lot of the Pirate Party's policies in the UK, but struggle to take them seriously with such a silly name.
    - tjmc 13y ago
      Same deal for the Sex Party. Their civil liberties platform is actually very sensible.
      - jsmeaton 13y ago
        I voted for them last time, and I'm voting for them again. Be aware that voting for the sex party is almost a donkey vote in all but Victoria though. Make sure you vote below the line.
        tjmc 13y ago
        I always vote below the line. Preference deals are an abomination of democracy.
cabalamat 13y ago
> As a citizen, this is impossible to fight. There are several ways you can fight it. 1. Voting. If you live in New South Wales, Queensland, Victoria or Tasmania, you can vote for the Pirate Party in the Senate on Saturday. If you live in NSW, Victoria or Western Australia, you can vote for the Wikileaks Party. Live anywhere, and you can vote for the Sex Party or the Greens. 2. Activism. Join one or more of these parties. 3. Software. Write software that circumvents the censorship. > This issue is regularly floated by both "sides" of politics People who think there are only two sides are wrong.
- shirro 13y ago
  The senate is it though. If you live in a safe seat like me you have no influence on who gets into government, only wrecking things when they are in.
  - cabalamat 13y ago
    One good thing about the House of Representatives is that, because it uses AV, you can give your higher preferences to the smaller parties without it being a a wasted vote.
- westicle 13y ago
  Sorry, I didn't mean to say it is impossible to fight. In the sense that I could fight Mike Tyson, or Don Quixote could fight a windmill, obviously it can be fought. I meant to say that as a citizen, this is impossible to stop. I say that as someone who will vote Wikileaks on Saturday. But in realistic terms, unfortunately there are only two viable sides in the legislative house. Polls (and consequently betting markets) don't even anticipate a single seat going to a minor party at this election.
  - cabalamat 13y ago
    > Sorry, I didn't mean to say it is impossible to fight. In the sense that I could fight Mike Tyson, or Don Quixote could fight a windmill, obviously it can be fought. It is possible to win. We blocked SOPA and ACTA. The vote to partially defund the NSA was only lost by a narrow margin. There are Pirates in the European Parliament (and will probably be more next year). There is more awareness of digital rights than there ever has been before, and importantly for the future it's higher amoung younger voters. This is a fight that can be won.
mason240 13y ago
It will be until we form a group large enough to have pull like the ACLU (500k members) or the NRA (5M members). The grassroots opposition to ACTA and SOPA were effective for round one, but we will lose in the long run unless get serious about organizing. The EFF (eff.org) is a good start, but it needs more members. Our tech-freedoms lobby could have the same model as the NRA and ACLU, lots of members to give it a clear mandate when lobbying and cash flow from effected industries for fighting legal battles. Just imagine if we had a group with the weight of the NRA.
- Wingman4l7 13y ago
  The problem is, what industry with deep pockets would support EFF policies? For instance, the NRA is supported by firearms manufacturers but the EFF is opposed by copyright trolls like Hollywood.

Wingman4l7 13y ago

It's really depressing -- I recall when I used to browse Slashdot a few years ago, all you would ever see tagged "Australia" was censorship and filter proposals. EDIT: Also depressing is how long the relevant Wikipedia article is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_Australia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_Austral...

ballard 13y ago
That might ax a few plans for US -> AU citizenry. What country without US extradition is the most socio-libertarian/anarchist friendly?
- Wingman4l7 13y ago
  Good luck with that -- it's a royal PITA to get citizenship in AU. Usually the countries without US extradition treaties have much more worrying issues, like abysmal civil / human rights records, IIRC. Also, it doesn't stop the US from leaning on them to extradite you as a special case, anyway.
  - ballard 13y ago
    Sometimes what is good is difficult to attain. Otherwise everyone would. (It's a good thing a dear friend is an immigration atty.)
- contingencies 13y ago
  What country without US extradition is the most socio-libertarian/anarchist friendly? NZ can't be worse than AU. I am a citizen of both (and DE) and plan to move to NZ myself.
  - Wingman4l7 13y ago
    Didn't NZ have that whole fiasco with kowtowing to the US and sending a SWAT team after Kim Dotcom?
    - contingencies 13y ago
      After which the prime minister (president equivalent) immediately personally apologised, flamed the police minister, and they have since been good about the whole thing.
- petercooper 13y ago
  Pick a country from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:United_States_extradition_treaties_countries.PNG http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:United_States_extradition_... that's in gray. I think you'd be looking at Vietnam, Andorra, or Croatia, although you could hardly say any were ideal by those measures.
  - luke_s 13y ago
    Owww, actually looking at the map I would suggest Taiwan!
    - ballard 13y ago
      Taiwan's cool.
  - ballard 13y ago
    Croatia is a thought. Some Croatian friends mentioned property values are skyrocketing because of pervasive construction. Split is nice too.
    - petercooper 13y ago
      Absolutely beautiful coastline and an EU member too (which, I suspect, will mean an extradition treaty with the US will probably apply at some point).
      - ballard 13y ago
        https://goo.gl/maps/HcAHM https://goo.gl/maps/HcAHM

derefr 13y ago

What do they think doing this serves, in their opinion? In the US, there's at least the excuse that there's this big block of neoconservative religious-fundamentalists to win the votes of. Does Australia have those too?

elnate 13y ago
Different, but effectively yes.
pavs 13y ago
I was under the impression that Australia is much much more conservative in general compare to USA.
- derefr 13y ago
  ("Conservative" doesn't necessarily mean "socially paternalistic along Old-Testament Christian lines" in most countries, though; thus the question.)
- vacri 13y ago
  Both of of the US's major political parties are more conservative than the Australian major conservative party. Particularly when it comes to fighting crime (when our police started fucking up with SWAT tactics, they were stopped in short order) and waging war. Outside of politics, it really depends on what you look at. There's certainly a strong urge to conform in mainstream anglo America (clipped lawns, identical houses, visible laundry is unsightly, etc) that doesn't really have a parallel here, but on the other hand, Americans are a bit more socially outgoing than Australians.
  - Wingman4l7 13y ago
    AU political party names were very confusing for me; the Liberal party is politically conservative, and both parties are more liberal than the US. =P AU successfully managed to de-militarize its police force? The US needs to use you guys as a case study! However, I suspect that you were only able to do that because of your very low tolerance for firearms violence, as evidenced by the near-complete disarmament of your civilian population via that massive buyback program & subsequent legislation after the Port Arthur massacre. I wouldn't be surprised if US citizens like the idea of a militarized police, ready to respond with overwhelming force to whatever movie-plot terrorists happen to pop up.

ballard 13y ago

It's a moral panic [0]. If filtering doesn't happen immediately, fear may be exploited and politicians will have to find something else to procrastinate on rather than tackling real issues (poverty, health care, budget waste). [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_panic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_panic

davegardner 13y ago

Just one of many good reasons to vote Greens in the senate.

RWeaver 13y ago
Or pirate party!
- chii 13y ago
  yes to the pirate party. Even tho they are unlikely to garner any actual majority, giving them your vote means that they could potentially affect policy.
- ed_blackburn 13y ago
  The Pirate Party could be the best party on the ballot, however if it wants people to vote for it, it should consider a non-churlish name. I can relate to a lot of the Pirate Party's policies in the UK, but struggle to take them seriously with such a silly name.
  - tjmc 13y ago
    Same deal for the Sex Party. Their civil liberties platform is actually very sensible.
    - jsmeaton 13y ago
      I voted for them last time, and I'm voting for them again. Be aware that voting for the sex party is almost a donkey vote in all but Victoria though. Make sure you vote below the line.
      - tjmc 13y ago
        I always vote below the line. Preference deals are an abomination of democracy.

cabalamat 13y ago

> As a citizen, this is impossible to fight. There are several ways you can fight it. 1. Voting. If you live in New South Wales, Queensland, Victoria or Tasmania, you can vote for the Pirate Party in the Senate on Saturday. If you live in NSW, Victoria or Western Australia, you can vote for the Wikileaks Party. Live anywhere, and you can vote for the Sex Party or the Greens. 2. Activism. Join one or more of these parties. 3. Software. Write software that circumvents the censorship. > This issue is regularly floated by both "sides" of politics People who think there are only two sides are wrong.

shirro 13y ago
The senate is it though. If you live in a safe seat like me you have no influence on who gets into government, only wrecking things when they are in.
- cabalamat 13y ago
  One good thing about the House of Representatives is that, because it uses AV, you can give your higher preferences to the smaller parties without it being a a wasted vote.
westicle 13y ago
Sorry, I didn't mean to say it is impossible to fight. In the sense that I could fight Mike Tyson, or Don Quixote could fight a windmill, obviously it can be fought. I meant to say that as a citizen, this is impossible to stop. I say that as someone who will vote Wikileaks on Saturday. But in realistic terms, unfortunately there are only two viable sides in the legislative house. Polls (and consequently betting markets) don't even anticipate a single seat going to a minor party at this election.
- cabalamat 13y ago
  > Sorry, I didn't mean to say it is impossible to fight. In the sense that I could fight Mike Tyson, or Don Quixote could fight a windmill, obviously it can be fought. It is possible to win. We blocked SOPA and ACTA. The vote to partially defund the NSA was only lost by a narrow margin. There are Pirates in the European Parliament (and will probably be more next year). There is more awareness of digital rights than there ever has been before, and importantly for the future it's higher amoung younger voters. This is a fight that can be won.

mason240 13y ago

It will be until we form a group large enough to have pull like the ACLU (500k members) or the NRA (5M members). The grassroots opposition to ACTA and SOPA were effective for round one, but we will lose in the long run unless get serious about organizing. The EFF (eff.org) is a good start, but it needs more members. Our tech-freedoms lobby could have the same model as the NRA and ACLU, lots of members to give it a clear mandate when lobbying and cash flow from effected industries for fighting legal battles. Just imagine if we had a group with the weight of the NRA.

Wingman4l7 13y ago
The problem is, what industry with deep pockets would support EFF policies? For instance, the NRA is supported by firearms manufacturers but the EFF is opposed by copyright trolls like Hollywood.