7 ms·

Getting drunk in North Korea

91 points by awwstn 13y ago

ggreer 13y ago
My favorite book about the DPRK is Nothing to Envy: Ordinary Lives in North Korea (http://www.amazon.com/Nothing-Envy-Ordinary-Lives-ebook/dp/B002ZB26AO/ http://www.amazon.com/Nothing-Envy-Ordinary-Lives-ebook/dp/B...). I'm hopeful that the DPRK is moving toward modernity, but if the stories from that book are anywhere close to the truth, they are still by far the most evil regime on the planet.
- tassl 13y ago
  I would add "The cleanest race: How North Koreans See Themselves and Why It Matters" (http://www.amazon.com/The-Cleanest-Race-Themselves-ebook/dp/B004EWETZW http://www.amazon.com/The-Cleanest-Race-Themselves-ebook/dp/...). I have been reading about North Korea for a while, and I find this book to open a new perspective on the way north korean people see themselves and their leaders. While I haven't had the pleasure to meet any person born and raised in North Korean (or at least, not as far as I know) I find that some of the contents of the book can be applied to South Koreans. Obviously, only up to a certain degree. Previous discussion on NK: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5817014 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5817014 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3368310 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3368310
- radicaldreamer 13y ago
  Under the Loving Care of the Fatherly Leader was a great read.
  - pyre 13y ago
    I read that as: Under the Loving Care of the Fatherly Leader! What a great read!
- dominotw 13y ago
  Even though I liked the book. I was not a big fan of story telling style. > far the most evil regime on the planet. That should be reserved for The American Empire. IMHO.
  - Karunamon 13y ago
    Bah in the general direction of your false equivalence. Call me when we have forced labor camps and generational punishment. The USA sucks, but others most definitely suck more.
    - dominotw 13y ago
      Call me when we stop sending drones to kill school children on their way to school. Also, we have indefinite detention without trail. Guantanamo . North Korea is a result of American Empire( Korean War). They are not going to disarm and be foolish like Libya ( who was silly enough to sign away its nuclear program)
      - nether 13y ago
        > North Korea is a result of American Empire( Korean War) It's a good thing you posted this from the US and not the DPRK. Don't think you'd fare as well over there (assuming you could smuggle in a cell phone with a data plan).
        steveklabnik 13y ago
        Actually, they'd be fine saying that in the DPRK, as it's pretty well accepted that American imperialism _did_ cause the split-off of south Korea. Then again, maybe not posting on this site. But their post is certainly right along the party line.
      - steveklabnik 13y ago
        Don't expect reasonable discussion of the DRPK here, of all places. :/ There's a reason that one of the HN guidelines is 'stay away from politics.'
- trebuch3t 13y ago
  > What if the nightmare imagined by George Orwell in 1984 were real? What if you had to live in a country where radio dials were fixed to a single government station? Where the surroundings were entirely black-and-white except for the red lettering of the propaganda signs? Where you were required to keep a large portrait of the president on your living room wall and bow to it on national holidays? This sounds like an incredible read. I just ordered a copy from Amazon. Thanks for the recommendation!
  - auctiontheory 13y ago
    What if the nightmare imagined by George Orwell in 1984 were real? In the absence or near-absence of Facebook and email and internet browsing and private cars and smart phones, I suspect (in fact I'm certain) that North Koreans have far more privacy from their government than we Americans do.
    - Wingman4l7 13y ago
      Just because those things exist and can be used to track you doesn't mean you have to use them. Just because US privacy rights are being eroded doesn't mean that not having them at all is better.
- drcode 13y ago
  FYI available on audible.
Jongseong 13y ago
As a South Korean living abroad, I am regularly asked about North Korea by curious foreigners despite having no special expertise on the subject besides having followed the news all my life by the virtue of being from the south of the DMZ. One of the most difficult things to convey, even to fellow South Koreans, is the fact that North Korea is as complex as any human society. For most people, North Korea is the very definition of the Great Unknown, and we tend to imagine such things as monoliths (it is incredible for instance how many outsiders seem to picture Africa as one giant mass of starvation, disease, and war, and are astonished to see anything that doesn't fit the preconception like bustling modern cities with a thriving middle class). It is easy to describe the lack of freedoms, cult of personality, massive prison camps, the songbun caste system and total lack of civil society in North Korea, leaving the curious foreigner shaking her head at the bizarreness and monstrosity of it all. But it is also easy to forget that this is a society inhabited by flesh and blood humans, not ruthless robots and their abstract oppressed victims. We don't get to see much of this side of course. But in some ways in the last decade or so North Korea has been creeping towards something close to normalcy, albeit far from ideal—corrupt officials, flourishing black markets, extreme disparities in wealth, and even cross-border trade with China. Nothing to portend a Soviet-style collapse of course, but even the slightest increase in openness is something we should welcome.
threeseed 13y ago
It's very common for foreigners staying at that hotel to get drunk every night. There is no internet, no other recreations and you aren't allowed to leave the hotel. And their home brewed beer is actually pretty good. Surprised they never mentioned the bowling alley / video game parlour which is hugely popular amongst the children of the well to do.
Mikeb85 13y ago
While there's no doubt that North Korea's regime is cruel and oppressive, and that they're very poor by generally accepted standards of measuring wealth, I've also seen quite a few documentaries suggesting that North Korea is also very different than how we view it. I've seen one where a tourist sneaks a video camera into the DPRK, and manages to take quite a bit of video, and in many ways they're not so different from us. In most ways, actually. They drink, go out for picnics, celebrate holidays, and do alot of the 'normal' things we do. The country looks clean, and the people aren't all walking skeletons. I think the truth about DPRK is somewhere in between our western propaganda, and the communist propaganda... With a bit of sci-fi weirdness thrown in for good measure...
- pyre 13y ago
  Even with "sneaking in a video camera," most outsiders are only allowed a view of North Korea that doesn't see the bad things. I know there are instances of people seeing parts of the country that aren't on the guided tour, but these are few and far-between, and usually don't include foreigners given free reign to wander over the country-side to see what they can see.
  - CrankyPants 13y ago
    Yeah. Taking photos they'd rather one didn't has gotten people doing hard labor for a decade and a half.
azernik 13y ago
"Governments in Communist countries often resort to subsidizing alcohol in order to keep people happy," Petrov explains. My impression of the Soviet alcohol policy was actually the other way around - alcohol was tightly regulated and sold at high markups, which (maybe not surprisingly) was a barrier to actual attempts to reduce alcoholism, since the state budget was so dependent on the sales.

91 points by awwstn 13y ago

My favorite book about the DPRK is Nothing to Envy: Ordinary Lives in North Korea (http://www.amazon.com/Nothing-Envy-Ordinary-Lives-ebook/dp/B002ZB26AO/ http://www.amazon.com/Nothing-Envy-Ordinary-Lives-ebook/dp/B...). I'm hopeful that the DPRK is moving toward modernity, but if the stories from that book are anywhere close to the truth, they are still by far the most evil regime on the planet.

tassl 13y ago
I would add "The cleanest race: How North Koreans See Themselves and Why It Matters" (http://www.amazon.com/The-Cleanest-Race-Themselves-ebook/dp/B004EWETZW http://www.amazon.com/The-Cleanest-Race-Themselves-ebook/dp/...). I have been reading about North Korea for a while, and I find this book to open a new perspective on the way north korean people see themselves and their leaders. While I haven't had the pleasure to meet any person born and raised in North Korean (or at least, not as far as I know) I find that some of the contents of the book can be applied to South Koreans. Obviously, only up to a certain degree. Previous discussion on NK: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5817014 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5817014 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3368310 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3368310
radicaldreamer 13y ago
Under the Loving Care of the Fatherly Leader was a great read.
- pyre 13y ago
  I read that as: Under the Loving Care of the Fatherly Leader! What a great read!
dominotw 13y ago
Even though I liked the book. I was not a big fan of story telling style. > far the most evil regime on the planet. That should be reserved for The American Empire. IMHO.
- Karunamon 13y ago
  Bah in the general direction of your false equivalence. Call me when we have forced labor camps and generational punishment. The USA sucks, but others most definitely suck more.
  - dominotw 13y ago
    Call me when we stop sending drones to kill school children on their way to school. Also, we have indefinite detention without trail. Guantanamo . North Korea is a result of American Empire( Korean War). They are not going to disarm and be foolish like Libya ( who was silly enough to sign away its nuclear program)
    - nether 13y ago
      > North Korea is a result of American Empire( Korean War) It's a good thing you posted this from the US and not the DPRK. Don't think you'd fare as well over there (assuming you could smuggle in a cell phone with a data plan).
      - steveklabnik 13y ago
        Actually, they'd be fine saying that in the DPRK, as it's pretty well accepted that American imperialism _did_ cause the split-off of south Korea. Then again, maybe not posting on this site. But their post is certainly right along the party line.
    - steveklabnik 13y ago
      Don't expect reasonable discussion of the DRPK here, of all places. :/ There's a reason that one of the HN guidelines is 'stay away from politics.'
trebuch3t 13y ago
> What if the nightmare imagined by George Orwell in 1984 were real? What if you had to live in a country where radio dials were fixed to a single government station? Where the surroundings were entirely black-and-white except for the red lettering of the propaganda signs? Where you were required to keep a large portrait of the president on your living room wall and bow to it on national holidays? This sounds like an incredible read. I just ordered a copy from Amazon. Thanks for the recommendation!
- auctiontheory 13y ago
  What if the nightmare imagined by George Orwell in 1984 were real? In the absence or near-absence of Facebook and email and internet browsing and private cars and smart phones, I suspect (in fact I'm certain) that North Koreans have far more privacy from their government than we Americans do.
  - Wingman4l7 13y ago
    Just because those things exist and can be used to track you doesn't mean you have to use them. Just because US privacy rights are being eroded doesn't mean that not having them at all is better.
drcode 13y ago
FYI available on audible.

Jongseong 13y ago

As a South Korean living abroad, I am regularly asked about North Korea by curious foreigners despite having no special expertise on the subject besides having followed the news all my life by the virtue of being from the south of the DMZ. One of the most difficult things to convey, even to fellow South Koreans, is the fact that North Korea is as complex as any human society. For most people, North Korea is the very definition of the Great Unknown, and we tend to imagine such things as monoliths (it is incredible for instance how many outsiders seem to picture Africa as one giant mass of starvation, disease, and war, and are astonished to see anything that doesn't fit the preconception like bustling modern cities with a thriving middle class). It is easy to describe the lack of freedoms, cult of personality, massive prison camps, the songbun caste system and total lack of civil society in North Korea, leaving the curious foreigner shaking her head at the bizarreness and monstrosity of it all. But it is also easy to forget that this is a society inhabited by flesh and blood humans, not ruthless robots and their abstract oppressed victims. We don't get to see much of this side of course. But in some ways in the last decade or so North Korea has been creeping towards something close to normalcy, albeit far from ideal—corrupt officials, flourishing black markets, extreme disparities in wealth, and even cross-border trade with China. Nothing to portend a Soviet-style collapse of course, but even the slightest increase in openness is something we should welcome.

threeseed 13y ago

It's very common for foreigners staying at that hotel to get drunk every night. There is no internet, no other recreations and you aren't allowed to leave the hotel. And their home brewed beer is actually pretty good. Surprised they never mentioned the bowling alley / video game parlour which is hugely popular amongst the children of the well to do.

Mikeb85 13y ago

While there's no doubt that North Korea's regime is cruel and oppressive, and that they're very poor by generally accepted standards of measuring wealth, I've also seen quite a few documentaries suggesting that North Korea is also very different than how we view it. I've seen one where a tourist sneaks a video camera into the DPRK, and manages to take quite a bit of video, and in many ways they're not so different from us. In most ways, actually. They drink, go out for picnics, celebrate holidays, and do alot of the 'normal' things we do. The country looks clean, and the people aren't all walking skeletons. I think the truth about DPRK is somewhere in between our western propaganda, and the communist propaganda... With a bit of sci-fi weirdness thrown in for good measure...

pyre 13y ago
Even with "sneaking in a video camera," most outsiders are only allowed a view of North Korea that doesn't see the bad things. I know there are instances of people seeing parts of the country that aren't on the guided tour, but these are few and far-between, and usually don't include foreigners given free reign to wander over the country-side to see what they can see.
- CrankyPants 13y ago
  Yeah. Taking photos they'd rather one didn't has gotten people doing hard labor for a decade and a half.

azernik 13y ago

"Governments in Communist countries often resort to subsidizing alcohol in order to keep people happy," Petrov explains. My impression of the Soviet alcohol policy was actually the other way around - alcohol was tightly regulated and sold at high markups, which (maybe not surprisingly) was a barrier to actual attempts to reduce alcoholism, since the state budget was so dependent on the sales.