8 ms·

Windows 8 more widely used than OS X, IE still on the rise

27 points by shawndumas 13y ago

jusben1369 13y ago
Wow. WIndows XP. What a beast that it's still north of 30%. Too lazy but when was it released and/or when was it replaced? I feel like it was superseded all the way back in 2007 or so?
- zanny 13y ago
  XP was good enough. Until it is no longer good enough for what people use it for (Microsoft Office environment or an email client) it won't be replaced. I just hope we can see some congergence in either the ChromeOS or Linux Desktop space to see those eventual switches be to alternate platforms to remove the MS stranglehold.
- jaredsohn 13y ago
  XP was released in 2001. It was officially superseded by Vista in 2007 and arguably really superseded within the Windows universe in 2009 when Windows 7 came out.
- jetti 13y ago
  I would venture that the majority of computers that run Windows XP are either people who don't use their computers a lot so that it wouldn't matter or companies. Seeing as Windows XP SP 3 is still supported through 2014 [1], businesses have no real reason to upgrade since it would be an added cost. [1] http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/endofsupport.aspx http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/endofsupport.aspx
kyllo 13y ago
Never thought I'd see the day that it would actually be news that the current version of Windows is still selling more licenses than Mac OS X.
- w1ntermute 13y ago
  Seeing as OS X is at 7% market share, I would say that it has less to do with OS X and more to do with users not upgrading from previous versions of Windows. Not that you would ever even think that when walking around SF.
  - kyllo 13y ago
    Yeah, I think it's mostly enterprises' "do not want" reaction to Win8. Win7 was great for enterprise, but Win8 is just a horrible fit for that market. I think it will get skipped by enterprises just like Vista did.
    - w1ntermute 13y ago
      > Win8 is just a horrible fit for that market If they bring back the Start menu (which they're half doing in 8.1) and allow the OS to boot directly into Desktop mode, then I think that Windows 7 and 8 would be essentially the same for enterprise users. They can just ignore all the new touch/consumer-centric features that have been added on. In fact, there are quite a few improvements under the hood from 7 to 8 that they could benefit from.
      - kyllo 13y ago
        So the selling point is that it's not worse than Win7, and the new consumer-centric touchscreen features can just be ignored, and there are various "under the hood" improvements that no one ever actually explains. I'm not exactly seeing a compelling reason to break out the corporate checkbook here.
general_failure 13y ago
I don';t understand how Safari can have > 50% market share. I mean people in china and india definitely don't use iOS or OS X. How come safari numbers are so high? It's also interesting to see how common IE is. In my company, we don't even test for IE anymore, it's chrome all the way. We think IE is negligible minority now!
- RKearney 13y ago
  That graph is only counting mobile browser share. That counts all iOS devices. Since iPhones/iPod Touches/iPads make up over 50% of all mobile devices, this leads to a large portion of mobile web traffic using Safari.
- w1ntermute 13y ago
  > It's also interesting to see how common IE is. In my company, we don't even test for IE anymore, it's chrome all the way. We think IE is negligible minority now! I know a ton of Rails web dev hipsters who totally ignore IE. It's quite amusing to see the same guys who were whining about IE-specific sites back in the early '00s now making WebKit-specific sites that they only test on their MacBooks and iPhones.
bhauer 13y ago
Bravo to Firefox for keeping Chrome at bay for another short while. Boo to the folks still using IE 8. Also boo to the innovation-repressing homogenization of mobile.
- nivla 13y ago
  I maybe wrong but I think a lot of users are switching back to Firefox from Chrome. My personal observation is that Chrome is getting more bloated, buggy and intrusive. Sad to see my favorite browser degrading.
  - BruceIV 13y ago
    I nearly did, but Chrome handles my university's webmail client better (and what with the NSA and all, they strongly recommend against mirroring your mail to an American server, which rules out most of the nicer webmail interfaces).
    - dbaupp 13y ago
      How about using a local mail client rather than a webmail one?
      - BruceIV 13y ago
        It'd be a pain in the rear to setup and keep synched for my home computer, lab computer, and smartphone. And Horde's not amazing, but it works well enough.
  - bcj 13y ago
    As someone who stuck with Firefox through the years when Chrome was almost-certainly better, I feel your pain. Perhaps a major tech company revitalize Google's efforts by entering the browser market.
  - sliverstorm 13y ago
    That's certainly what I did. Firefox has improved immeasurably (at least for me) since about version 14, while Chrome has crept up in size. As a point of reference, if I open one tab in Chrome with Google Music and I let my computer idle for a minute, the various Chrome processes will sum up to between 800-1024MB of memory. You know how much Firefox with 8 tabs takes? 420MB. Apparently people don't like this comment, but unlike some I do not possess scads and scads of RAM.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
ape4 13y ago
I can't imagine anyone using Windows 8 by choice.
- gebe 13y ago
  I am doing it daily, I think it's a great OS.
  - frankydp 13y ago
    Are you running 8.1? Also are you using any tile/native/windows8 apps? I only ask because I had the great displeasure of attempting to use the native skype app last night, and could not simply adjust my mic volume without ending the call. There are large fundamental issues with the UI(ie right click, the right bar thing having no mouse area forgiveness, no app specific settings menus, and many others) that have prevented me from completing even the most basic of task. What "fixes" are you using to be able to even interact with the UI? I am absolutely not trolling, but I am completely bewildered by these comments popping up.
    - BruceIV 13y ago
      I'm not the parent, but I do run Win 8.1 on my main laptop. I don't use Metro apps (Netflix and a couple games excepted), because there are better apps to do the same thing on the desktop (and before 8.1 not being able to run Metro apps on more than one monitor was a pain). For the specific case of Skype, I use the desktop client (my laptop doesn't have Windows 8 drivers for its webcam, and the Windows default puts the video upside-down), and it works fine. My basic experience with Windows 8 (and especially 8.1) is that it's an improvement over 7, so long as you just use desktop apps - it boots quicker, and there's a number of useful UI tweaks (Windows Explorer and the Task Manager are notable here). Also, I like the Start screen - being able to comfortably arrange a couple dozen apps for easy access means I almost never have to go digging in the menu.
    - sliverstorm 13y ago
      Assuming you are on a desktop or laptop computer, hit the "Desktop" tile and proceed to use Windows 8 exactly the same way you always used Windows 7. For all practical purposes, on a desktop the "tile" menu just replaces the start menu.
bickfordb 13y ago
The desktop browser statistics in the article value Internet Explorer higher than in other articles I have read such as this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers
- powertower 13y ago
  Some stats count unique visitor totals of each Browser. Other stats count page hit totals of each Browser. Then you have ones that mess around with not including all of the particular Browser's versions. And there is no telling who's getting a world-wide sample, who's taking out some coutries, who's samples over-represent a country because their traffic collection base is there, etc.
chrischen 13y ago
OS X is at 7.44% according to the graph. Windows 8 is at 7.41%.
- RKearney 13y ago
  OS X is at 7.25% according to that graph. 3.42 + 1.65 + 1.65 + 0.53 = 7.25%
  - UberMouse 13y ago
    Maybe they updated the graph but I also got 7.41% after adding all the OSX percentages after I read that comment shortly after it was posted.
    - chrischen 13y ago
      Yes the graph appears to have been updated at September 3, 2013 6:47:17 PM It used to be 3.42+1.73+1.76+0.53
ericcholis 13y ago
Such a high number of Windows XP users isn't surprising, but it is infuriating for those of us that wish to deploy SNI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Server_Name_Indication http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Server_Name_Indication). I know that MS will never release a patch for it, but seriously. Previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3857698 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3857698
ceph_ 13y ago
Is Netaplications an actual reliable source? They're results are so far skewed from that of all of the other web usage analytics groups. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers
eksith 13y ago
Windows XP is kept in the ranks, by and large, by the Chinese http://www.networkworld.com/news/2013/080713-china-has-a-massive-windows-272608.html http://www.networkworld.com/news/2013/080713-china-has-a-mas... It's unlikely to change any time soon since if it ain't broke[1]... [1] Your definition of "ain't broke" may vary.
brownbat 13y ago
Yeah, I was shocked by the "dad" test: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4boTbv9_nU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4boTbv9_nU And when Gabe talked about 8, I winced: http://www.neowin.net/news/valves-gabe-newell-calls-windows-8-this-giant-sadness http://www.neowin.net/news/valves-gabe-newell-calls-windows-... But watching a few "tips" / "best of new features" videos for 8.1... I start to feel a little left out. Just type to search. Re-engineered file copying. Hot corners make it seem like someone at least skimmed an article on Fitt's Law. And, ooh, Win + Print Screen? Just make the screenshot a file. Yeah, should have been fixed back in 95. So, er, maybe they got a few things right? I haven't upgraded yet, but... the dissonance is mounting.
- mkr-hn 13y ago
  8.1 has me considering an upgrade. I'm assuming it'll run on a laptop that runs Windows 7. Though it's probably more economical to just upgrade the laptop unless they offer an OEM->full upgrade path. I could use a few more cores and > 4GB of RAM.

27 points by shawndumas 13y ago

Wow. WIndows XP. What a beast that it's still north of 30%. Too lazy but when was it released and/or when was it replaced? I feel like it was superseded all the way back in 2007 or so?

zanny 13y ago
XP was good enough. Until it is no longer good enough for what people use it for (Microsoft Office environment or an email client) it won't be replaced. I just hope we can see some congergence in either the ChromeOS or Linux Desktop space to see those eventual switches be to alternate platforms to remove the MS stranglehold.
jaredsohn 13y ago
XP was released in 2001. It was officially superseded by Vista in 2007 and arguably really superseded within the Windows universe in 2009 when Windows 7 came out.
jetti 13y ago
I would venture that the majority of computers that run Windows XP are either people who don't use their computers a lot so that it wouldn't matter or companies. Seeing as Windows XP SP 3 is still supported through 2014 [1], businesses have no real reason to upgrade since it would be an added cost. [1] http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/endofsupport.aspx http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/endofsupport.aspx

kyllo 13y ago

Never thought I'd see the day that it would actually be news that the current version of Windows is still selling more licenses than Mac OS X.

w1ntermute 13y ago
Seeing as OS X is at 7% market share, I would say that it has less to do with OS X and more to do with users not upgrading from previous versions of Windows. Not that you would ever even think that when walking around SF.
- kyllo 13y ago
  Yeah, I think it's mostly enterprises' "do not want" reaction to Win8. Win7 was great for enterprise, but Win8 is just a horrible fit for that market. I think it will get skipped by enterprises just like Vista did.
  - w1ntermute 13y ago
    > Win8 is just a horrible fit for that market If they bring back the Start menu (which they're half doing in 8.1) and allow the OS to boot directly into Desktop mode, then I think that Windows 7 and 8 would be essentially the same for enterprise users. They can just ignore all the new touch/consumer-centric features that have been added on. In fact, there are quite a few improvements under the hood from 7 to 8 that they could benefit from.
    - kyllo 13y ago
      So the selling point is that it's not worse than Win7, and the new consumer-centric touchscreen features can just be ignored, and there are various "under the hood" improvements that no one ever actually explains. I'm not exactly seeing a compelling reason to break out the corporate checkbook here.

general_failure 13y ago

I don';t understand how Safari can have > 50% market share. I mean people in china and india definitely don't use iOS or OS X. How come safari numbers are so high? It's also interesting to see how common IE is. In my company, we don't even test for IE anymore, it's chrome all the way. We think IE is negligible minority now!

RKearney 13y ago
That graph is only counting mobile browser share. That counts all iOS devices. Since iPhones/iPod Touches/iPads make up over 50% of all mobile devices, this leads to a large portion of mobile web traffic using Safari.
w1ntermute 13y ago
> It's also interesting to see how common IE is. In my company, we don't even test for IE anymore, it's chrome all the way. We think IE is negligible minority now! I know a ton of Rails web dev hipsters who totally ignore IE. It's quite amusing to see the same guys who were whining about IE-specific sites back in the early '00s now making WebKit-specific sites that they only test on their MacBooks and iPhones.

bhauer 13y ago

Bravo to Firefox for keeping Chrome at bay for another short while. Boo to the folks still using IE 8. Also boo to the innovation-repressing homogenization of mobile.

nivla 13y ago
I maybe wrong but I think a lot of users are switching back to Firefox from Chrome. My personal observation is that Chrome is getting more bloated, buggy and intrusive. Sad to see my favorite browser degrading.
- BruceIV 13y ago
  I nearly did, but Chrome handles my university's webmail client better (and what with the NSA and all, they strongly recommend against mirroring your mail to an American server, which rules out most of the nicer webmail interfaces).
  - dbaupp 13y ago
    How about using a local mail client rather than a webmail one?
    - BruceIV 13y ago
      It'd be a pain in the rear to setup and keep synched for my home computer, lab computer, and smartphone. And Horde's not amazing, but it works well enough.
- bcj 13y ago
  As someone who stuck with Firefox through the years when Chrome was almost-certainly better, I feel your pain. Perhaps a major tech company revitalize Google's efforts by entering the browser market.
- sliverstorm 13y ago
  That's certainly what I did. Firefox has improved immeasurably (at least for me) since about version 14, while Chrome has crept up in size. As a point of reference, if I open one tab in Chrome with Google Music and I let my computer idle for a minute, the various Chrome processes will sum up to between 800-1024MB of memory. You know how much Firefox with 8 tabs takes? 420MB. Apparently people don't like this comment, but unlike some I do not possess scads and scads of RAM.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

ape4 13y ago

I can't imagine anyone using Windows 8 by choice.

gebe 13y ago
I am doing it daily, I think it's a great OS.
- frankydp 13y ago
  Are you running 8.1? Also are you using any tile/native/windows8 apps? I only ask because I had the great displeasure of attempting to use the native skype app last night, and could not simply adjust my mic volume without ending the call. There are large fundamental issues with the UI(ie right click, the right bar thing having no mouse area forgiveness, no app specific settings menus, and many others) that have prevented me from completing even the most basic of task. What "fixes" are you using to be able to even interact with the UI? I am absolutely not trolling, but I am completely bewildered by these comments popping up.
  - BruceIV 13y ago
    I'm not the parent, but I do run Win 8.1 on my main laptop. I don't use Metro apps (Netflix and a couple games excepted), because there are better apps to do the same thing on the desktop (and before 8.1 not being able to run Metro apps on more than one monitor was a pain). For the specific case of Skype, I use the desktop client (my laptop doesn't have Windows 8 drivers for its webcam, and the Windows default puts the video upside-down), and it works fine. My basic experience with Windows 8 (and especially 8.1) is that it's an improvement over 7, so long as you just use desktop apps - it boots quicker, and there's a number of useful UI tweaks (Windows Explorer and the Task Manager are notable here). Also, I like the Start screen - being able to comfortably arrange a couple dozen apps for easy access means I almost never have to go digging in the menu.
  - sliverstorm 13y ago
    Assuming you are on a desktop or laptop computer, hit the "Desktop" tile and proceed to use Windows 8 exactly the same way you always used Windows 7. For all practical purposes, on a desktop the "tile" menu just replaces the start menu.

bickfordb 13y ago

The desktop browser statistics in the article value Internet Explorer higher than in other articles I have read such as this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers

powertower 13y ago
Some stats count unique visitor totals of each Browser. Other stats count page hit totals of each Browser. Then you have ones that mess around with not including all of the particular Browser's versions. And there is no telling who's getting a world-wide sample, who's taking out some coutries, who's samples over-represent a country because their traffic collection base is there, etc.

chrischen 13y ago

OS X is at 7.44% according to the graph. Windows 8 is at 7.41%.

RKearney 13y ago
OS X is at 7.25% according to that graph. 3.42 + 1.65 + 1.65 + 0.53 = 7.25%
- UberMouse 13y ago
  Maybe they updated the graph but I also got 7.41% after adding all the OSX percentages after I read that comment shortly after it was posted.
  - chrischen 13y ago
    Yes the graph appears to have been updated at September 3, 2013 6:47:17 PM It used to be 3.42+1.73+1.76+0.53

ericcholis 13y ago

Such a high number of Windows XP users isn't surprising, but it is infuriating for those of us that wish to deploy SNI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Server_Name_Indication http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Server_Name_Indication). I know that MS will never release a patch for it, but seriously. Previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3857698 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3857698

ceph_ 13y ago

Is Netaplications an actual reliable source? They're results are so far skewed from that of all of the other web usage analytics groups. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers

eksith 13y ago

Windows XP is kept in the ranks, by and large, by the Chinese http://www.networkworld.com/news/2013/080713-china-has-a-massive-windows-272608.html http://www.networkworld.com/news/2013/080713-china-has-a-mas... It's unlikely to change any time soon since if it ain't broke[1]... [1] Your definition of "ain't broke" may vary.

brownbat 13y ago

Yeah, I was shocked by the "dad" test: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4boTbv9_nU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4boTbv9_nU And when Gabe talked about 8, I winced: http://www.neowin.net/news/valves-gabe-newell-calls-windows-8-this-giant-sadness http://www.neowin.net/news/valves-gabe-newell-calls-windows-... But watching a few "tips" / "best of new features" videos for 8.1... I start to feel a little left out. Just type to search. Re-engineered file copying. Hot corners make it seem like someone at least skimmed an article on Fitt's Law. And, ooh, Win + Print Screen? Just make the screenshot a file. Yeah, should have been fixed back in 95. So, er, maybe they got a few things right? I haven't upgraded yet, but... the dissonance is mounting.

mkr-hn 13y ago
8.1 has me considering an upgrade. I'm assuming it'll run on a laptop that runs Windows 7. Though it's probably more economical to just upgrade the laptop unless they offer an OEM->full upgrade path. I could use a few more cores and > 4GB of RAM.