8 ms·

Related: at the PARK this weekend, and heard all the following utterances in the span of ten minutes from some parents: "NO RUNNING!" "IT'S DANGEROUS HERE" "YOU

by newobj 13y ago

Related: at the PARK this weekend, and heard all the following utterances in the span of ten minutes from some parents: "NO RUNNING!" "IT'S DANGEROUS HERE" "YOU'RE GONNA GET HURT" "NO RUNNING!" Talk about instilling fear and creating risk aversion. Sometimes you just have to let a child find out for themselves what's safe and what isn't. What you can get up and dust yourself off from and what you can't. It's hard to do (I say this as a parent of 5 year old boy), but you have to resist the urge to hover over them and caution or approve their every move.

dalek_cannes 13y ago
There's also the problem of fear of litigation. I'm from a part of the world that is not as lawsuit-happy as the U.S. Amongst other things, medical treatment is very cheap here and people laugh at labels like "warning: device heats up when in operation" (seen on an iron made in the USA).
- Florin_Andrei 13y ago
  > I'm from a part of the world that is not as lawsuit-happy as the U.S. This is because the safety net is non-existent here. If something really bad is about to happen, you know you're going to fall all the way down to the bottom. The solution? Sue the hell out of everybody. > Amongst other things, medical treatment is very cheap here Yup. Exactly the opposite in the US. When the hospital bill requires a second mortgage, covering the costs via money awarded in a lawsuit might be the only solution.
- kyllo 13y ago
  I think the absurdity is not lost on some of the people writing the copy for these safety warnings. For example, after Liebeck v. McDonald's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald%27s_Restaurants http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald%27s_Restaur...), companies started printing tautological statements like "WARNING: HOT COFFEE IS HOT" on the cups.
RougeFemme 13y ago
I have a co-worker who is so risk-averse, she literally pushes her 4-year-old in the stroller to each piece of playground equipment - so she doesn't have to worry about running; even walking at the playground is forbidden for her child. Yes, I'm a parent, but. . .
Amadou 13y ago
Free Range Kids is a good resource for helping parents feel like good parents when they fight the urge to hover and over-protect. http://www.freerangekids.com/ http://www.freerangekids.com/
hef19898 13y ago
Sounds familiar. The most scaring part is that one moment you rant and laogh at parents telling their children to carefull. And then you turn around, see you kid something you don't like and guess what you do? Exactly the same thing. Only speaking for myself, but more often then not I just don't have the patience to NOT say it. But I try most of the time at least.
- mikeash 13y ago
  I think there's a huge difference between "be careful" and "don't do that". The former is just reminding the child to be mindful of their actions, which is a good thing. The latter is saying to avoid anything that could get you hurt even a little bit, which is very much not.
mikeash 13y ago
I was going out for a walk with my daughter the other day and had the following conversation with my wife: Her: Don't let her run on the sidewalk. Me: What? Why? Her: She's not wearing pants, just a dress. Me: ...OK... what exactly is the relationship between these two things? Her: There's nothing covering her knees, she'll hurt herself if she falls on the sidewalk. I couldn't even fathom the connection without having it spelled out for me. I, of course, completely ignored the whole conversation afterwards.
- eli_gottlieb 13y ago
  Wait... so nowadays kids aren't supposed to scrape their knees, elbows, arms, hands, and in fact basically everything? Because that's what we did when I was young.
- sliverstorm 13y ago
  I don't recall pants ever helping in that regard.
dspillett 13y ago
Conversely I once genuinely heard this streaked by someone to the kids they were herding around a supermarket: "if you two want to run around and make noise, go do it in the car park". Perhaps she was too far the other way...
rayiner 13y ago
I'd bet that much of the issue stems from the decline in birth rates among middle/upper middle class parents relative to the days of yore. When you only manage to pop out one or two kids, at great career sacrifice and monetary expense, each one seems to matter more than they did back in the day. Also, paradoxically, the safer things get the more people worry about the dangers that remain. This is rational. Say doing this or that during pregnancy results in 1 in 10,000 women dying during child birth. If 1 in 100 women die during child birth anyway, it's not a big deal. But if improvements in medical technology gets the base rate down to 1 in 10,000, then suddenly you're talking about doubling your risk.
- kbenson 13y ago
  I would say it's got less to do with the perceived (even subconsciously) value of the children, and more the experience of the parents. For the first child, you're often hyper-conscious of threats and problems. With later children you've better assessed what's important to pay attention to and what isn't.
  - graeme 13y ago
    In case anyone didn't notice the implied point here: a far greater percentage of children are now the first child.
  - mpyne 13y ago
    I can confirm this was a big issue with our children. Our first we tended to treat like porcelain... eventually we've learned through experience that kids are more resilient than you may otherwise think.
  - enraged_camel 13y ago
    Anecdotally speaking, this is not true. My parents always joke that I was the "test subject" for their parenting experiments, and my (younger) sister is the one on whom they actually applied what they learned. Growing up, my life was pretty care-free. My sister on the other hand is definitely suffering from "helicopter parenting." Gender probably has a lot to do with it. I'm a guy, so I don't have as much to worry about (whereas girls are perceived as more vulnerable to things like rape, etc.).
awj 13y ago
As a parent-to-be, this is the one thing that scares me most. You can't learn risk assessment while living in a bubble. Which means I'm going to have to watch my kids run into problems I know I could prevent because what they learn from the experience is more valuable than preventing the situation. That is a terrifyingly difficult decision, given the potential consequences.
- WalterSear 13y ago
  If you start very early, you'll give them the wherewithall to mitigate and avoid the worst situations.
alayne 13y ago
Are you saying there weren't overprotective parents before? This thread is full of a lot of confirmation bias / society is going to hell in a hand basket type of discussion. Boy, kids these days, right? I'd like to see some facts because I don't find it very credible.
- graeme 13y ago
  Talk to some older folks. My dad describes walking to school with other schoolchildren in Montreal in the 1950s. They'd be alone, without adults, going miles. When playing, they were out dusk to dawn on city streets with no adult supervision.
  - enjo 13y ago
    That proves nothing other than your dad grew up in a particular way. The question the post you were replying to posed was: is this actually a new phenomenon? Or is it simply good ole day syndrome? I suspect it's more the latter.
    - graeme 13y ago
      Well, the whole city was the same. It wasn't just his parents. And any other adult of the same age I've asked has described similar experiences. Now I see daycare children on leashes in Montreal. Quite often. That didn't happen in the 1950s. This isn't something' easy to quantify, unfortunately.
    - fr0sty 13y ago
      Do you have any anecdotes (or stronger evidence) to show that the sort of behavior lamented by some in our day existed (or was indeed rampant as your suspicions suggest) N years ago? (where N is anywhere between 20 and 200)?
    - svachalek 13y ago
      It's not just his dad. Watch Lassie or Leave it to Beaver or Andy Griffith and take notes on what was considered good wholesome parenting at the time. When I grew up in the 70s I'd say if anything the typical parent was even more hands-off. It was absolutely nothing like what is considered proper now.
BillyMaize 13y ago
Having grown up with parents who acted like this I can say it makes for a miserable childhood. I wasn't allowed to even ride my bike past one neighbors house on each side when I was a kid because my parents were convinced I would be kidnapped. I couldn't go to a friends house without my parents walking me all the way up to the door and then I had to report home every hour or two or they would call the police as if I was missing. They wouldn't even let me use sharp silverware because I might have hurt myself accidentally. And don't get me started on learning to drive.... I realized only in college how sheltered my life was when I noticed how everyone else was living their lives while I was constantly afraid I was going to die any minute. It has taken years to undo the damage and I honestly despise my parents for it (among other reasons as well).
- contravert 13y ago
  On the other hand, many people don't have a healthy fear of automobiles, considering the lethality of the physics involved in a collision.
  - jonny_eh 13y ago
    I bet his parents drove him everywhere and therefore he has no issues with cars.
aasarava 13y ago
As a parent of young kids, I can attest that many parents in my peer group are constantly reminding their kids not to be careful NOT due to a fear of risk -- but rather from wanting to avoid an injury that's going inconvenience everyone. If your child crashes his bike and gets a bloody knee on the playground, your relaxing afternoon at the park is most likely over and now you have a crying child, bloody clothes, a damaged bike wheel, and potentially another child who is now screaming because you have to leave the park to go find bandages. If your child breaks her arm, it's even worse -- off to the hospital you go, followed by a child who can't take a bath or get dressed by herself for a month. Do some parents take this to an extreme and deny their kids some fun? Sure. But a lot of times, it's just about trying to maintain a level of mindfulness so that everyone can continue having fun for the afternoon.
- WalterSear 13y ago
  Everyone? I've only witnessed this behavior as a way to avoid inconveniencing themselves.
- GrinningFool 13y ago
  That argument reads to me like this: "If my kid injured himself, I would be inconvenienced - so let's take extra steps to make sure I am not inconvenienced." And to your point, there are cases where this is valid - when the inconvenience would extend beyond just "oh my afternoon is ruined" and into "everybody's afternoon would be ruined".
- enraged_camel 13y ago
  >>If your child crashes his bike and gets a bloody knee on the playground, your relaxing afternoon at the park is most likely over and now you have a crying child, bloody clothes, a damaged bike wheel, and potentially another child who is now screaming because you have to leave the park to go find bandages. Well, yes. This is called parenting: it is expected that, as a parent, you will have to endure a certain amount of inconvenience so that your kid can learn to ride a bike. Now, if he or she is endangering other kids while learning, then it's valid to step in. But thinking about your own convenience sounds a bit selfish.
decasteve 13y ago
I get dirty looks from other parents (and grandparents especially) when my daughter and son (5 and 4 resp.) are climbing and jumping off of things at the park. They've become quite talented at jumping from fairly high heights (relatively).
SourPatch 13y ago
Here's someone who was willing to accept some risk in order to help her son learn on his own: http://www.nysun.com/opinion/why-i-let-my-9-year-old-ride-subway-alone/73976/ http://www.nysun.com/opinion/why-i-let-my-9-year-old-ride-su...
code4life 13y ago
I joke constantly with my wife "Don't! You're going to break your arm!" hilarious - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XBb-YYszLI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XBb-YYszLI
PebblesRox 13y ago
I'm a fan of this TED Talk: 5 Dangerous Things to Let Your Kids Do He explains some ways to help kids learn to be safe around dangerous things. http://www.ted.com/talks/gever_tulley_on_5_dangerous_things_for_kids.html http://www.ted.com/talks/gever_tulley_on_5_dangerous_things_...

by newobj 13y ago

dalek_cannes 13y ago

There's also the problem of fear of litigation. I'm from a part of the world that is not as lawsuit-happy as the U.S. Amongst other things, medical treatment is very cheap here and people laugh at labels like "warning: device heats up when in operation" (seen on an iron made in the USA).

Florin_Andrei 13y ago
> I'm from a part of the world that is not as lawsuit-happy as the U.S. This is because the safety net is non-existent here. If something really bad is about to happen, you know you're going to fall all the way down to the bottom. The solution? Sue the hell out of everybody. > Amongst other things, medical treatment is very cheap here Yup. Exactly the opposite in the US. When the hospital bill requires a second mortgage, covering the costs via money awarded in a lawsuit might be the only solution.
kyllo 13y ago
I think the absurdity is not lost on some of the people writing the copy for these safety warnings. For example, after Liebeck v. McDonald's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald%27s_Restaurants http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald%27s_Restaur...), companies started printing tautological statements like "WARNING: HOT COFFEE IS HOT" on the cups.

RougeFemme 13y ago

I have a co-worker who is so risk-averse, she literally pushes her 4-year-old in the stroller to each piece of playground equipment - so she doesn't have to worry about running; even walking at the playground is forbidden for her child. Yes, I'm a parent, but. . .

Amadou 13y ago

Free Range Kids is a good resource for helping parents feel like good parents when they fight the urge to hover and over-protect. http://www.freerangekids.com/ http://www.freerangekids.com/

hef19898 13y ago

Sounds familiar. The most scaring part is that one moment you rant and laogh at parents telling their children to carefull. And then you turn around, see you kid something you don't like and guess what you do? Exactly the same thing. Only speaking for myself, but more often then not I just don't have the patience to NOT say it. But I try most of the time at least.

mikeash 13y ago
I think there's a huge difference between "be careful" and "don't do that". The former is just reminding the child to be mindful of their actions, which is a good thing. The latter is saying to avoid anything that could get you hurt even a little bit, which is very much not.

mikeash 13y ago

I was going out for a walk with my daughter the other day and had the following conversation with my wife: Her: Don't let her run on the sidewalk. Me: What? Why? Her: She's not wearing pants, just a dress. Me: ...OK... what exactly is the relationship between these two things? Her: There's nothing covering her knees, she'll hurt herself if she falls on the sidewalk. I couldn't even fathom the connection without having it spelled out for me. I, of course, completely ignored the whole conversation afterwards.

eli_gottlieb 13y ago
Wait... so nowadays kids aren't supposed to scrape their knees, elbows, arms, hands, and in fact basically everything? Because that's what we did when I was young.
sliverstorm 13y ago
I don't recall pants ever helping in that regard.

dspillett 13y ago

Conversely I once genuinely heard this streaked by someone to the kids they were herding around a supermarket: "if you two want to run around and make noise, go do it in the car park". Perhaps she was too far the other way...

rayiner 13y ago

I'd bet that much of the issue stems from the decline in birth rates among middle/upper middle class parents relative to the days of yore. When you only manage to pop out one or two kids, at great career sacrifice and monetary expense, each one seems to matter more than they did back in the day. Also, paradoxically, the safer things get the more people worry about the dangers that remain. This is rational. Say doing this or that during pregnancy results in 1 in 10,000 women dying during child birth. If 1 in 100 women die during child birth anyway, it's not a big deal. But if improvements in medical technology gets the base rate down to 1 in 10,000, then suddenly you're talking about doubling your risk.

kbenson 13y ago
I would say it's got less to do with the perceived (even subconsciously) value of the children, and more the experience of the parents. For the first child, you're often hyper-conscious of threats and problems. With later children you've better assessed what's important to pay attention to and what isn't.
- graeme 13y ago
  In case anyone didn't notice the implied point here: a far greater percentage of children are now the first child.
- mpyne 13y ago
  I can confirm this was a big issue with our children. Our first we tended to treat like porcelain... eventually we've learned through experience that kids are more resilient than you may otherwise think.
- enraged_camel 13y ago
  Anecdotally speaking, this is not true. My parents always joke that I was the "test subject" for their parenting experiments, and my (younger) sister is the one on whom they actually applied what they learned. Growing up, my life was pretty care-free. My sister on the other hand is definitely suffering from "helicopter parenting." Gender probably has a lot to do with it. I'm a guy, so I don't have as much to worry about (whereas girls are perceived as more vulnerable to things like rape, etc.).

awj 13y ago

As a parent-to-be, this is the one thing that scares me most. You can't learn risk assessment while living in a bubble. Which means I'm going to have to watch my kids run into problems I know I could prevent because what they learn from the experience is more valuable than preventing the situation. That is a terrifyingly difficult decision, given the potential consequences.

WalterSear 13y ago
If you start very early, you'll give them the wherewithall to mitigate and avoid the worst situations.

alayne 13y ago

Are you saying there weren't overprotective parents before? This thread is full of a lot of confirmation bias / society is going to hell in a hand basket type of discussion. Boy, kids these days, right? I'd like to see some facts because I don't find it very credible.

graeme 13y ago
Talk to some older folks. My dad describes walking to school with other schoolchildren in Montreal in the 1950s. They'd be alone, without adults, going miles. When playing, they were out dusk to dawn on city streets with no adult supervision.
- enjo 13y ago
  That proves nothing other than your dad grew up in a particular way. The question the post you were replying to posed was: is this actually a new phenomenon? Or is it simply good ole day syndrome? I suspect it's more the latter.
  - graeme 13y ago
    Well, the whole city was the same. It wasn't just his parents. And any other adult of the same age I've asked has described similar experiences. Now I see daycare children on leashes in Montreal. Quite often. That didn't happen in the 1950s. This isn't something' easy to quantify, unfortunately.
  - fr0sty 13y ago
    Do you have any anecdotes (or stronger evidence) to show that the sort of behavior lamented by some in our day existed (or was indeed rampant as your suspicions suggest) N years ago? (where N is anywhere between 20 and 200)?
  - svachalek 13y ago
    It's not just his dad. Watch Lassie or Leave it to Beaver or Andy Griffith and take notes on what was considered good wholesome parenting at the time. When I grew up in the 70s I'd say if anything the typical parent was even more hands-off. It was absolutely nothing like what is considered proper now.

BillyMaize 13y ago

Having grown up with parents who acted like this I can say it makes for a miserable childhood. I wasn't allowed to even ride my bike past one neighbors house on each side when I was a kid because my parents were convinced I would be kidnapped. I couldn't go to a friends house without my parents walking me all the way up to the door and then I had to report home every hour or two or they would call the police as if I was missing. They wouldn't even let me use sharp silverware because I might have hurt myself accidentally. And don't get me started on learning to drive.... I realized only in college how sheltered my life was when I noticed how everyone else was living their lives while I was constantly afraid I was going to die any minute. It has taken years to undo the damage and I honestly despise my parents for it (among other reasons as well).

contravert 13y ago
On the other hand, many people don't have a healthy fear of automobiles, considering the lethality of the physics involved in a collision.
- jonny_eh 13y ago
  I bet his parents drove him everywhere and therefore he has no issues with cars.

aasarava 13y ago

As a parent of young kids, I can attest that many parents in my peer group are constantly reminding their kids not to be careful NOT due to a fear of risk -- but rather from wanting to avoid an injury that's going inconvenience everyone. If your child crashes his bike and gets a bloody knee on the playground, your relaxing afternoon at the park is most likely over and now you have a crying child, bloody clothes, a damaged bike wheel, and potentially another child who is now screaming because you have to leave the park to go find bandages. If your child breaks her arm, it's even worse -- off to the hospital you go, followed by a child who can't take a bath or get dressed by herself for a month. Do some parents take this to an extreme and deny their kids some fun? Sure. But a lot of times, it's just about trying to maintain a level of mindfulness so that everyone can continue having fun for the afternoon.

WalterSear 13y ago
Everyone? I've only witnessed this behavior as a way to avoid inconveniencing themselves.
GrinningFool 13y ago
That argument reads to me like this: "If my kid injured himself, I would be inconvenienced - so let's take extra steps to make sure I am not inconvenienced." And to your point, there are cases where this is valid - when the inconvenience would extend beyond just "oh my afternoon is ruined" and into "everybody's afternoon would be ruined".
enraged_camel 13y ago
>>If your child crashes his bike and gets a bloody knee on the playground, your relaxing afternoon at the park is most likely over and now you have a crying child, bloody clothes, a damaged bike wheel, and potentially another child who is now screaming because you have to leave the park to go find bandages. Well, yes. This is called parenting: it is expected that, as a parent, you will have to endure a certain amount of inconvenience so that your kid can learn to ride a bike. Now, if he or she is endangering other kids while learning, then it's valid to step in. But thinking about your own convenience sounds a bit selfish.

decasteve 13y ago

I get dirty looks from other parents (and grandparents especially) when my daughter and son (5 and 4 resp.) are climbing and jumping off of things at the park. They've become quite talented at jumping from fairly high heights (relatively).

SourPatch 13y ago

Here's someone who was willing to accept some risk in order to help her son learn on his own: http://www.nysun.com/opinion/why-i-let-my-9-year-old-ride-subway-alone/73976/ http://www.nysun.com/opinion/why-i-let-my-9-year-old-ride-su...

code4life 13y ago

I joke constantly with my wife "Don't! You're going to break your arm!" hilarious - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XBb-YYszLI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XBb-YYszLI

PebblesRox 13y ago

I'm a fan of this TED Talk: 5 Dangerous Things to Let Your Kids Do He explains some ways to help kids learn to be safe around dangerous things. http://www.ted.com/talks/gever_tulley_on_5_dangerous_things_for_kids.html http://www.ted.com/talks/gever_tulley_on_5_dangerous_things_...