3 ms·

I have not downvoted you but can tell you why others are. You implied equivalence in the two systems, which is nonsense. India's issues are due to corruption.

I have not downvoted you but can tell you why others are. You implied equivalence in the two systems, which is nonsense. India's issues are due to corruption. The US immigration system is instead faced with a very high load, inadequate resources, and a great many people trying to game it, which all cause it to be quite conservative and precise. But it is VERY different from India both in problem and solution.

parennoob 13y ago
Why are there "inadequate resources" for the US immigration system? And if there are, why can the same argument be not applied to the Indian case? (There is plenty of illegal immigration into India as well, read up on it if you're interested.) For what it's worth -- I did not mean to imply that the reasons for why both systems are screwed up are the same, and agree wholly with the statement that it "is VERY different from India". I just meant to highlight the fact that they both are screwed up, and the end result of a feeling of extreme frustration and helplessness for legal immigrants is the same. Also, trying to suggest that corruption is an issue exclusive to India is pretty ridiculous as well. The US has an ample amount of institutionalized corruption in the form of lobbying and related practices.
- SeanLuke 13y ago
  > Why are there "inadequate resources" for the US immigration system? And if there are, why can the same argument be not applied to the Indian case? The resource issue is fundamentally different. The US problem is that there are not enough people to process the enormous number of applications the country receives. The India problem is that the workers aren't paid well enough, resulting in a culture of bribery. Unlike in India, bribery of US visa officials is pretty rare. > Also, why is it "people trying to game it" when it's the States, and "corruption" when it is in India? By "people trying to game it", I meant prospective immigrants trying everything they can think of to manipulate the system. For some reason you seem to think that bribery is common in the US immigration system. > The US has an ample amount of institutionalized corruption in the form of lobbying. This has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.
  - parennoob 13y ago
    > The US problem is that there are not enough people to process the enormous number of applications the country receives. The India problem is that the workers aren't paid well enough, resulting in a culture of bribery. I don't exactly see the validity of this argument. There are a lot of people without jobs in the USA right now. Last I checked the unemployment rate was pretty high. So if I understand correctly, what you are saying is that the Government in the States does not have enough money, or for some reason, is not willing to pay people to process these applications. Neither does the Indian Government. It's pretty cash-strapped as well. You are right that this does lead to bribery in the Indian scenario, and just plain slowness of processing in the US one. The end result for legal immigrants, as I have already said, is pretty similar. > For some reason you seem to think that bribery is common in the US immigration system. Not exactly. Look below for why I do think this is true, indirectly. >The US has an ample amount of institutionalized corruption in the form of lobbying. In the US, "political lobbying" involving donations of millions of dollars routed through channels too diffuse for the common person to understand can result in laws being changed, leading to "legal" routes to whatever you want. In India, you pay a Government official a wad of notes, and your job is done. I fail to see how one system is inherently better than the other.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
geezer 13y ago
Agree. The two systems aren't equivalent. The U.S system is worse. You can't even bribe your way to what you want.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- seanmcdirmid 13y ago
  The US system is also more fair, since you can't bribe your way to what you want. Transparency does wonders for creating a healthy business environment.

parennoob 13y ago

Why are there "inadequate resources" for the US immigration system? And if there are, why can the same argument be not applied to the Indian case? (There is plenty of illegal immigration into India as well, read up on it if you're interested.) For what it's worth -- I did not mean to imply that the reasons for why both systems are screwed up are the same, and agree wholly with the statement that it "is VERY different from India". I just meant to highlight the fact that they both are screwed up, and the end result of a feeling of extreme frustration and helplessness for legal immigrants is the same. Also, trying to suggest that corruption is an issue exclusive to India is pretty ridiculous as well. The US has an ample amount of institutionalized corruption in the form of lobbying and related practices.

SeanLuke 13y ago
> Why are there "inadequate resources" for the US immigration system? And if there are, why can the same argument be not applied to the Indian case? The resource issue is fundamentally different. The US problem is that there are not enough people to process the enormous number of applications the country receives. The India problem is that the workers aren't paid well enough, resulting in a culture of bribery. Unlike in India, bribery of US visa officials is pretty rare. > Also, why is it "people trying to game it" when it's the States, and "corruption" when it is in India? By "people trying to game it", I meant prospective immigrants trying everything they can think of to manipulate the system. For some reason you seem to think that bribery is common in the US immigration system. > The US has an ample amount of institutionalized corruption in the form of lobbying. This has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.
- parennoob 13y ago
  > The US problem is that there are not enough people to process the enormous number of applications the country receives. The India problem is that the workers aren't paid well enough, resulting in a culture of bribery. I don't exactly see the validity of this argument. There are a lot of people without jobs in the USA right now. Last I checked the unemployment rate was pretty high. So if I understand correctly, what you are saying is that the Government in the States does not have enough money, or for some reason, is not willing to pay people to process these applications. Neither does the Indian Government. It's pretty cash-strapped as well. You are right that this does lead to bribery in the Indian scenario, and just plain slowness of processing in the US one. The end result for legal immigrants, as I have already said, is pretty similar. > For some reason you seem to think that bribery is common in the US immigration system. Not exactly. Look below for why I do think this is true, indirectly. >The US has an ample amount of institutionalized corruption in the form of lobbying. In the US, "political lobbying" involving donations of millions of dollars routed through channels too diffuse for the common person to understand can result in laws being changed, leading to "legal" routes to whatever you want. In India, you pay a Government official a wad of notes, and your job is done. I fail to see how one system is inherently better than the other.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

geezer 13y ago

Agree. The two systems aren't equivalent. The U.S system is worse. You can't even bribe your way to what you want.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
seanmcdirmid 13y ago
The US system is also more fair, since you can't bribe your way to what you want. Transparency does wonders for creating a healthy business environment.