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This is more or less exactly how foreign engineers trying to get permanent residency or in the States feel. Both of these systems are horrible, and need exact

This is more or less exactly how foreign engineers trying to get permanent residency or in the States feel. Both of these systems are horrible, and need exact documentation regarding number of applications processed, along with specific targets. They also need to be staffed with people eager to do their job and welcome people in unless there are specific, real concerns, not actively try to keep them out by any means possible, including infinitely long "processing" delays. [edit: not exactly sure why I'm being downvoted here, but downvoters, please do try and leave a comment if possible. thanks!]

litegeek 13y ago
Anti-America isn't HN friendly, my friend. Now watch as this comment gets down-voted into abyss.
- Koulia 13y ago
  Maybe you will get downvoted because you add exactly nothing to the discussion.
  - litegeek 13y ago
    I'd like to see how you do either - We both have throwaway profiles, commenting about stuff we are offended about and by your definition add nothing to the real discussion ;)
    - Koulia 13y ago
      This is actually my first and only account, but good for you.
ahomescu1 13y ago
Reading between the lines of the article suggests that the officials wanted a bribe (which is also what several commenters pointed out). I have never, ever been in any experience like that with a US official (been in the US since 2010 on a student visa).
- parennoob 13y ago
  I'm not sure whether said commenters have ever tried to transact business in India, but the picture is slightly more complex than slipping a thousand-rupee note into someone's hand and getting your work done. Often, the average Indian official is overworked, severely underpaid, and has living quarters that are in a far-flung, horrible area which is probably worse than the homeless shelter in a typical American city if you compare the quality of life and amenities. Sometimes, these officials are on the lookout for money, other times they are in a severely strained psychological state, and need some form of empathy. (Note: I freely admit that is a case that is very different from the States -- just saying that it is not a cut and dried form of corruption, as some seem to insist. And for that matter, the US has a lot of institutionalized corruption in the form of lobbying.)
SeanLuke 13y ago
I have not downvoted you but can tell you why others are. You implied equivalence in the two systems, which is nonsense. India's issues are due to corruption. The US immigration system is instead faced with a very high load, inadequate resources, and a great many people trying to game it, which all cause it to be quite conservative and precise. But it is VERY different from India both in problem and solution.
- parennoob 13y ago
  Why are there "inadequate resources" for the US immigration system? And if there are, why can the same argument be not applied to the Indian case? (There is plenty of illegal immigration into India as well, read up on it if you're interested.) For what it's worth -- I did not mean to imply that the reasons for why both systems are screwed up are the same, and agree wholly with the statement that it "is VERY different from India". I just meant to highlight the fact that they both are screwed up, and the end result of a feeling of extreme frustration and helplessness for legal immigrants is the same. Also, trying to suggest that corruption is an issue exclusive to India is pretty ridiculous as well. The US has an ample amount of institutionalized corruption in the form of lobbying and related practices.
  - SeanLuke 13y ago
    > Why are there "inadequate resources" for the US immigration system? And if there are, why can the same argument be not applied to the Indian case? The resource issue is fundamentally different. The US problem is that there are not enough people to process the enormous number of applications the country receives. The India problem is that the workers aren't paid well enough, resulting in a culture of bribery. Unlike in India, bribery of US visa officials is pretty rare. > Also, why is it "people trying to game it" when it's the States, and "corruption" when it is in India? By "people trying to game it", I meant prospective immigrants trying everything they can think of to manipulate the system. For some reason you seem to think that bribery is common in the US immigration system. > The US has an ample amount of institutionalized corruption in the form of lobbying. This has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

litegeek 13y ago

Anti-America isn't HN friendly, my friend. Now watch as this comment gets down-voted into abyss.

Koulia 13y ago
Maybe you will get downvoted because you add exactly nothing to the discussion.
- litegeek 13y ago
  I'd like to see how you do either - We both have throwaway profiles, commenting about stuff we are offended about and by your definition add nothing to the real discussion ;)
  - Koulia 13y ago
    This is actually my first and only account, but good for you.

ahomescu1 13y ago

Reading between the lines of the article suggests that the officials wanted a bribe (which is also what several commenters pointed out). I have never, ever been in any experience like that with a US official (been in the US since 2010 on a student visa).

parennoob 13y ago
I'm not sure whether said commenters have ever tried to transact business in India, but the picture is slightly more complex than slipping a thousand-rupee note into someone's hand and getting your work done. Often, the average Indian official is overworked, severely underpaid, and has living quarters that are in a far-flung, horrible area which is probably worse than the homeless shelter in a typical American city if you compare the quality of life and amenities. Sometimes, these officials are on the lookout for money, other times they are in a severely strained psychological state, and need some form of empathy. (Note: I freely admit that is a case that is very different from the States -- just saying that it is not a cut and dried form of corruption, as some seem to insist. And for that matter, the US has a lot of institutionalized corruption in the form of lobbying.)

SeanLuke 13y ago

I have not downvoted you but can tell you why others are. You implied equivalence in the two systems, which is nonsense. India's issues are due to corruption. The US immigration system is instead faced with a very high load, inadequate resources, and a great many people trying to game it, which all cause it to be quite conservative and precise. But it is VERY different from India both in problem and solution.

parennoob 13y ago
Why are there "inadequate resources" for the US immigration system? And if there are, why can the same argument be not applied to the Indian case? (There is plenty of illegal immigration into India as well, read up on it if you're interested.) For what it's worth -- I did not mean to imply that the reasons for why both systems are screwed up are the same, and agree wholly with the statement that it "is VERY different from India". I just meant to highlight the fact that they both are screwed up, and the end result of a feeling of extreme frustration and helplessness for legal immigrants is the same. Also, trying to suggest that corruption is an issue exclusive to India is pretty ridiculous as well. The US has an ample amount of institutionalized corruption in the form of lobbying and related practices.
- SeanLuke 13y ago
  > Why are there "inadequate resources" for the US immigration system? And if there are, why can the same argument be not applied to the Indian case? The resource issue is fundamentally different. The US problem is that there are not enough people to process the enormous number of applications the country receives. The India problem is that the workers aren't paid well enough, resulting in a culture of bribery. Unlike in India, bribery of US visa officials is pretty rare. > Also, why is it "people trying to game it" when it's the States, and "corruption" when it is in India? By "people trying to game it", I meant prospective immigrants trying everything they can think of to manipulate the system. For some reason you seem to think that bribery is common in the US immigration system. > The US has an ample amount of institutionalized corruption in the form of lobbying. This has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.