5 ms·

A lot of the comments here claim that the deal breaker here is the culture. This could come off as glib, but is Silicon Valley really in any position to be comp

by antics 13y ago

A lot of the comments here claim that the deal breaker here is the culture. This could come off as glib, but is Silicon Valley really in any position to be complaining about another culture being too homogeneous, or too exclusive of "different" demographics (e.g., I dunno, women)? Don't make me laugh. This is particularly disappointing because there are much better reasons to justify your decisions to not found your startup in Utah. Let's start with the fact that the investment scene, and in particular, the angel scene, is completely and utterly toxic. I won't go into specifics, because badmouthing people on the Internet is mean, but most of funding (especially angel funding) in Utah is structured as a competition, where startups compete for money. The result is that there is no camaraderie between companies in the way that there is in, say, NYC or the bay area. People are friendly, but there is not really any knowledge ventilation because the angels cultivate this atmosphere of competition. The result is a divisive and poisonous atmosphere that is antithetical (IMHO) to hacker culture. In my experience, this lack of sharing knowledge makes it quite hard to build things. You're extremely unlikely to find a successful coworking space here, for example. So ultimately, the talent pool here is deep, but until this cultural problem is fixed, Utah will always be a distant 11th to other venues. EDIT: and before we all jump on the hate train, I'm an avowed atheist who left Mormonism. I don't like the culture here either, but let's not forget that Sili Valley needs to pull its head out of its ass on a pretty regular basis too. EDIT 2: and for reference, I graduated in CS from the University of Utah this year (2013). So my experiences are pretty fresh.

letney 13y ago
I'll give another good reason to avoid living there: The air quality along the Wasatch Front (Ogden, Salt Lake, & Provo) is among the worst in the nation. http://www.stateoftheair.org/2013/city-rankings/most-polluted-cities.html http://www.stateoftheair.org/2013/city-rankings/most-pollute... ranks the Provo-Orem area as the 11th highest nationwide for short-term particle pollution (SLC being #6 and Logan being #10). I left Salt Lake City 6 years ago. I miss many aspects of life there and have considered moving back. But the air quality there is an absolute deal breaker. The winter inversions are absolutely miserable.
- dmgrow 13y ago
  The good news is that this has become a forefront issue. Governor Herbert has started making air quality a priority, but also key local groups like Envision Utah. Fixing the inversion problem though will take active involvement from the community. If we could get 1/3 of the cars off the road on the 10 days/year it mattered the most, it would be a game-changer. The tech companies in the area could make a big difference in this effort if they let their collective thousands of employees work from home on those days.
  - letney 13y ago
    While I think its wonderful news that it has become a priority, I remain pessimistic. The geography of the valley cannot be changed and combined with the common high-pressure weather patterns the air is trapped for weeks at a time. Even with massive cut-backs in emissions our industrial economy and expanding population ensures this will remain a problem long into the future.
  - xxpor 13y ago
    Or they could have their office in downtown SLC, making transit a viable option to get to work.
- seanmcdirmid 13y ago
  SLC is unique in that they suffer from inversions, that lead to AQIs as high as 70 2.5 ppm. I now live in Beijing where we sometimes get up to 700 AQI (also with inversions!), so I remember the first world problems I had in SLC. If I move back to the states, I'm going to avoid living in bowls or valleys.
nostromo 13y ago
I lived in Utah for a year (Logan) and San Francisco for many. Utah culture does have some positives. The work ethic is very strong, the atmosphere is pro-business, and employees are loyal almost to a fault. In California I think the M.O. is "looking out for number one" -- in Utah I felt that even low level employees often have a sense of commitment to their employers. I also think that Mormons specifically can be good in sales due to their missionary work which is two-years of religiously mandated door-to-door sales training. But the Utah culture lacks in other areas -- specifically on "being a hustler/hacker" and being creative, neither of which is plentiful in Utah. By the way, Overstock and Novell are the only tech companies in Utah I can think of -- are there any that are more recent?
- raviparikh 13y ago
  Omniture is another succesful Utah-based tech company.
- vyrotek 13y ago
  Here's a list of companies :) http://www.siliconslopes.com/company/search-companies http://www.siliconslopes.com/company/search-companies
rdl 13y ago
If it is just investment which is mostly fucked, Utah seems like an awesome place for a raised-money-in-SFBA company to have a second office and hire a lot of developers. If they're committed to Utah, they probably won't leave very soon. I'm thinking WA state makes a little more sense (I personally prefer UW to BYU/UU, and I like the culture in WA more than (my limited experience with) UT), especially if you want to have only a single location which appeals to both "city people" and "country people" (an overgeneralization, but I think accurate). However, SF+UT seems like a really strong option. The awesome thing about this is that if UT becomes the backend dev shop for lots of startups, SFBA VC will be drawn there to finance new startups at some point, solving your financing problem.
- seanmcdirmid 13y ago
  I attended UW for my undergrad and UU for my PhD. Seattle is definitely more dense in tech talent, but this has as much (if not more) to do with Microsoft than UW's very good program, which still doesn't crank out that many students (and those students are mostly off to google anyways). Also, WA doesn't just mean Seattle, but I'm sure the startup scene in Spokane is kind of moribund. The interesting thing about Utah is that it has a tech talent scene at all...I just wouldn't have expected it before I was living there. Rents are also more affordable and it's an ok city to live in.
  - rdl 13y ago
    I'm looking at moving to WA-8 in early 2014 (assuming the stupid CA gun laws pass). That's not Spokane, but potentially could be an office around Redmond and me living somewhere east of there, with other people choosing to live in Eastside or even Seattle (I guess). (I actually really like E/NE WA too, and Idaho, but that isn't exactly viable.) What I like about UW is specifically their aero program and their cryptography and law programs. UU/BYU are not as strong on that. And MSR is amazingly proper. I guess I've known about the strengths of Utah for a while, but that's because I met a lot of Mormons in the military and in general overseas, and they did a great job of selling the state (actively and passively).

by antics 13y ago

letney 13y ago

I'll give another good reason to avoid living there: The air quality along the Wasatch Front (Ogden, Salt Lake, & Provo) is among the worst in the nation. http://www.stateoftheair.org/2013/city-rankings/most-polluted-cities.html http://www.stateoftheair.org/2013/city-rankings/most-pollute... ranks the Provo-Orem area as the 11th highest nationwide for short-term particle pollution (SLC being #6 and Logan being #10). I left Salt Lake City 6 years ago. I miss many aspects of life there and have considered moving back. But the air quality there is an absolute deal breaker. The winter inversions are absolutely miserable.

dmgrow 13y ago
The good news is that this has become a forefront issue. Governor Herbert has started making air quality a priority, but also key local groups like Envision Utah. Fixing the inversion problem though will take active involvement from the community. If we could get 1/3 of the cars off the road on the 10 days/year it mattered the most, it would be a game-changer. The tech companies in the area could make a big difference in this effort if they let their collective thousands of employees work from home on those days.
- letney 13y ago
  While I think its wonderful news that it has become a priority, I remain pessimistic. The geography of the valley cannot be changed and combined with the common high-pressure weather patterns the air is trapped for weeks at a time. Even with massive cut-backs in emissions our industrial economy and expanding population ensures this will remain a problem long into the future.
- xxpor 13y ago
  Or they could have their office in downtown SLC, making transit a viable option to get to work.
seanmcdirmid 13y ago
SLC is unique in that they suffer from inversions, that lead to AQIs as high as 70 2.5 ppm. I now live in Beijing where we sometimes get up to 700 AQI (also with inversions!), so I remember the first world problems I had in SLC. If I move back to the states, I'm going to avoid living in bowls or valleys.

nostromo 13y ago

I lived in Utah for a year (Logan) and San Francisco for many. Utah culture does have some positives. The work ethic is very strong, the atmosphere is pro-business, and employees are loyal almost to a fault. In California I think the M.O. is "looking out for number one" -- in Utah I felt that even low level employees often have a sense of commitment to their employers. I also think that Mormons specifically can be good in sales due to their missionary work which is two-years of religiously mandated door-to-door sales training. But the Utah culture lacks in other areas -- specifically on "being a hustler/hacker" and being creative, neither of which is plentiful in Utah. By the way, Overstock and Novell are the only tech companies in Utah I can think of -- are there any that are more recent?

raviparikh 13y ago
Omniture is another succesful Utah-based tech company.
vyrotek 13y ago
Here's a list of companies :) http://www.siliconslopes.com/company/search-companies http://www.siliconslopes.com/company/search-companies

rdl 13y ago

If it is just investment which is mostly fucked, Utah seems like an awesome place for a raised-money-in-SFBA company to have a second office and hire a lot of developers. If they're committed to Utah, they probably won't leave very soon. I'm thinking WA state makes a little more sense (I personally prefer UW to BYU/UU, and I like the culture in WA more than (my limited experience with) UT), especially if you want to have only a single location which appeals to both "city people" and "country people" (an overgeneralization, but I think accurate). However, SF+UT seems like a really strong option. The awesome thing about this is that if UT becomes the backend dev shop for lots of startups, SFBA VC will be drawn there to finance new startups at some point, solving your financing problem.

seanmcdirmid 13y ago
I attended UW for my undergrad and UU for my PhD. Seattle is definitely more dense in tech talent, but this has as much (if not more) to do with Microsoft than UW's very good program, which still doesn't crank out that many students (and those students are mostly off to google anyways). Also, WA doesn't just mean Seattle, but I'm sure the startup scene in Spokane is kind of moribund. The interesting thing about Utah is that it has a tech talent scene at all...I just wouldn't have expected it before I was living there. Rents are also more affordable and it's an ok city to live in.
- rdl 13y ago
  I'm looking at moving to WA-8 in early 2014 (assuming the stupid CA gun laws pass). That's not Spokane, but potentially could be an office around Redmond and me living somewhere east of there, with other people choosing to live in Eastside or even Seattle (I guess). (I actually really like E/NE WA too, and Idaho, but that isn't exactly viable.) What I like about UW is specifically their aero program and their cryptography and law programs. UU/BYU are not as strong on that. And MSR is amazingly proper. I guess I've known about the strengths of Utah for a while, but that's because I met a lot of Mormons in the military and in general overseas, and they did a great job of selling the state (actively and passively).