5 ms·

This is something that I encounter frequently. Friends from high school I have on Facebook who are still in college/grad school, don't work, but spend their va

by GuiA 13y ago

This is something that I encounter frequently. Friends from high school I have on Facebook who are still in college/grad school, don't work, but spend their vacations in exotic places doing scuba diving. Or acquaintances who are working on their stealth mode startup and complain about how hard it is, but then go spend 1 week snowboarding in Tahoe because they feel like it. How does that work? Do those people have giant savings accounts, and am I just dumb with my money? Or do they do freelance work on the side? I have decent savings etc., but having followed the path of college -> grad school (where I worked as a research assistant) -> startup, I have never been to Asia/South America because I either have the time but not the money, or the money but not the time. My getaway has been driving to Santa Cruz for the Sunday once every few weeks. I feel like I'm missing out on something here- and I'm not ashamed to say that I'm a bit jealous of those people and that I wish I could do the same. Coding on a Thailand beach between a scuba diving session and an afternoon of surfing sounds pretty nice.

SteveGerencser 13y ago
Don't be jealous. Soon you will be 45 with no debt, able to retire but working because you enjoy it and able to do anything you want any time you want without any real worry. Many of those friends will be 45, in debt to their eyes, or bankrupted at least once, and talking about lucky you are to be able to just up and go on a 10 day fishing trip to Alaska simply because you wanted to. They won't, however, understand that they could have had exactly the same life if they had chosen to delay the 'fun' just a few years. Guess how I know ;)
- chronic25 13y ago
  Statements like these are meant to justify inequalities. Keep hoping you will have a better life later while I will have a great life now and an even better life later.
- seanmcdirmid 13y ago
  On the other hand, soon you will be 45 with no debt, but not many interesting life experiences. You realized you spent all your time working and being a responsible drone, but then you look at your poor bankrupt friend who did so many cool things the last 20 years and feel like maybe your course wasn't the best course. Now you are getting old, have a family to worry about, and are not really able to do the back packer thing anymore. Different strokes for different folks. Time is also a limited resource; be careful not to waste your youth on just work.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - sopooneo 13y ago
    That is a false dichotomy.
    - seanmcdirmid 13y ago
      So was parent.
  - raintrees 13y ago
    I cannot agree with you here. Although I do not claim to be smart now, I am definitely farther along than when I was younger. And I hope to be working only because I enjoy it in about 9 more years, happy to be also looking forward to quite a bit of travel, as well as on-going self learning I already do... I worked hard for the first 20 years, now I work part time, and as I said already, I hope to have it be optional soon. I also feel far more appreciative of life in general now, whereas I took much for granted while younger. Hopefully, that will continue to increase... But now having typed this, I realize that we are all different, and the path we took is the path we had to take to be who we are... Hmmm... Never mind?
    - seanmcdirmid 13y ago
      > But now having typed this, I realize that we are all different, and the path we took is the path we had to take to be who we are... And that is the real wisdom that age provides :) I could criticize the family guy for working hard, living in suburbia, and forgoing exciting travel/work opportunities to have a quite acceptable but normal life. But, hey, it works for him, and he has many things that I don't (and vice versa).
by_Seeing 13y ago
It's always been a matter of priorities. Travel has always been high on my list. A nice apartment, expensive things and a normal lifestyle have been at the bottom. Add freelance and startups into the mix and much of career life has looked like a travel album.
- WalterSear 13y ago
  You've never been actually poor. Poverty is not having either travel nor nice things.
  - vinceguidry 13y ago
    Travel is one of those things you can do for free if you really, really want to. Hitch hiking doesn't cost anything, so you can travel all over North and South America if you've got patience, thick skin and a willingness to take risks. I've a buddy of mine who did just that. Started in San Antonio and is now in Argentina, if I recall. He's not poor, so he could do things like hire a boat to get around the Darien Gap rather than stick around and try to work to get enough money for it. But even if you're poor, you can always find ways to make just enough to scrape by. I met guys while I was traveling that didn't have a dime but yet still managed to get around and even have fun.
    - WalterSear 13y ago
      You certainly can, and I've done it myself. However, author's statement that they made a decision to spend their money travel, rather than housing and goods, doesn't suggest that that is what they are doing. Poor is not being able to scrape up enough money for a plane ticket and hostel accomodations, not 'choosing to take a break from this pesky job search business'.
      - vinceguidry 13y ago
        > Poor is not being able to scrape up enough money for a plane ticket and hostel accomodations Why? Even a poor person in the US should be able to scrape up enough for at least that, if nothing more. I took a two month trip to Colombia on $15 a day, about $1500 after the plane ticket. One can easily save up that kind of money in two months with even a crappy job, if you're serious about it. I don't think it's really possible to be "seriously" poor in the US. The amount of ambient wealth floating around here is tremendous compared to other countries. I'd much rather be destitute here than in, say, Rwanda.
peterjancelis 13y ago
You'd be amazed how many people have trust funds or a rich uncle somewhere. All it takes is for you not to buy this one car today at age 30 and the money will compound into a life of exotic beach vacations for all your grandchildren and beyond. Edit: And for the people who don't have a trust fund, like me, you can always take a job with remote teams, which is what I just did.
seanmcdirmid 13y ago
I started out like you: college -> grad school, after I got my PhD I was already 30+ with no savings. Then I did a post doc in Switzerland...then I took a job in China. Now I've been to most of Europe and much of Asia (not S. America though, too far). Now travelling doesn't bring me much excitement, but I do enjoy a nice luxury bungalow treatment every once in a while. I've even met some of the guys coding on beaches in Thailand or Bali, they are quite laid back and zen. I'm not sure I could do it though, I'm still very much an American (meaning, puritan/work ethic roots), and would feel uncomfortable being out of the office for too long.
- by_Seeing 13y ago
  God, I feel that puritan work ethic. Living in Buenos Aires was difficult for that reason.
AYBABTME 13y ago
The trick with SEA is that if you stay long enough, the cost of flying is amortized by the cost of living. That's how, as a student, I managed to spend two summers in Vietnam, coding remotely for a professor for 15$/h, 20h a week. It didn't cost me anything to go there for 4 months. Also depending on when you fly, and with some little research, you can get fairly cheap tickets. If you know you will be in a precarious or idle situation for X weeks, you can balance the cost of staying here (US/Canada) for those X weeks (food, accommodation and some activities) vs flying there and saving a ton on food/accommodation/activities. It seems odd but it's completely true. It also helps that I don't have a mortgage to pay.

by GuiA 13y ago

SteveGerencser 13y ago

Don't be jealous. Soon you will be 45 with no debt, able to retire but working because you enjoy it and able to do anything you want any time you want without any real worry. Many of those friends will be 45, in debt to their eyes, or bankrupted at least once, and talking about lucky you are to be able to just up and go on a 10 day fishing trip to Alaska simply because you wanted to. They won't, however, understand that they could have had exactly the same life if they had chosen to delay the 'fun' just a few years. Guess how I know ;)

chronic25 13y ago
Statements like these are meant to justify inequalities. Keep hoping you will have a better life later while I will have a great life now and an even better life later.
seanmcdirmid 13y ago
On the other hand, soon you will be 45 with no debt, but not many interesting life experiences. You realized you spent all your time working and being a responsible drone, but then you look at your poor bankrupt friend who did so many cool things the last 20 years and feel like maybe your course wasn't the best course. Now you are getting old, have a family to worry about, and are not really able to do the back packer thing anymore. Different strokes for different folks. Time is also a limited resource; be careful not to waste your youth on just work.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- sopooneo 13y ago
  That is a false dichotomy.
  - seanmcdirmid 13y ago
    So was parent.
- raintrees 13y ago
  I cannot agree with you here. Although I do not claim to be smart now, I am definitely farther along than when I was younger. And I hope to be working only because I enjoy it in about 9 more years, happy to be also looking forward to quite a bit of travel, as well as on-going self learning I already do... I worked hard for the first 20 years, now I work part time, and as I said already, I hope to have it be optional soon. I also feel far more appreciative of life in general now, whereas I took much for granted while younger. Hopefully, that will continue to increase... But now having typed this, I realize that we are all different, and the path we took is the path we had to take to be who we are... Hmmm... Never mind?
  - seanmcdirmid 13y ago
    > But now having typed this, I realize that we are all different, and the path we took is the path we had to take to be who we are... And that is the real wisdom that age provides :) I could criticize the family guy for working hard, living in suburbia, and forgoing exciting travel/work opportunities to have a quite acceptable but normal life. But, hey, it works for him, and he has many things that I don't (and vice versa).

by_Seeing 13y ago

It's always been a matter of priorities. Travel has always been high on my list. A nice apartment, expensive things and a normal lifestyle have been at the bottom. Add freelance and startups into the mix and much of career life has looked like a travel album.

WalterSear 13y ago
You've never been actually poor. Poverty is not having either travel nor nice things.
- vinceguidry 13y ago
  Travel is one of those things you can do for free if you really, really want to. Hitch hiking doesn't cost anything, so you can travel all over North and South America if you've got patience, thick skin and a willingness to take risks. I've a buddy of mine who did just that. Started in San Antonio and is now in Argentina, if I recall. He's not poor, so he could do things like hire a boat to get around the Darien Gap rather than stick around and try to work to get enough money for it. But even if you're poor, you can always find ways to make just enough to scrape by. I met guys while I was traveling that didn't have a dime but yet still managed to get around and even have fun.
  - WalterSear 13y ago
    You certainly can, and I've done it myself. However, author's statement that they made a decision to spend their money travel, rather than housing and goods, doesn't suggest that that is what they are doing. Poor is not being able to scrape up enough money for a plane ticket and hostel accomodations, not 'choosing to take a break from this pesky job search business'.
    - vinceguidry 13y ago
      > Poor is not being able to scrape up enough money for a plane ticket and hostel accomodations Why? Even a poor person in the US should be able to scrape up enough for at least that, if nothing more. I took a two month trip to Colombia on $15 a day, about $1500 after the plane ticket. One can easily save up that kind of money in two months with even a crappy job, if you're serious about it. I don't think it's really possible to be "seriously" poor in the US. The amount of ambient wealth floating around here is tremendous compared to other countries. I'd much rather be destitute here than in, say, Rwanda.

peterjancelis 13y ago

You'd be amazed how many people have trust funds or a rich uncle somewhere. All it takes is for you not to buy this one car today at age 30 and the money will compound into a life of exotic beach vacations for all your grandchildren and beyond. Edit: And for the people who don't have a trust fund, like me, you can always take a job with remote teams, which is what I just did.

seanmcdirmid 13y ago

I started out like you: college -> grad school, after I got my PhD I was already 30+ with no savings. Then I did a post doc in Switzerland...then I took a job in China. Now I've been to most of Europe and much of Asia (not S. America though, too far). Now travelling doesn't bring me much excitement, but I do enjoy a nice luxury bungalow treatment every once in a while. I've even met some of the guys coding on beaches in Thailand or Bali, they are quite laid back and zen. I'm not sure I could do it though, I'm still very much an American (meaning, puritan/work ethic roots), and would feel uncomfortable being out of the office for too long.

by_Seeing 13y ago
God, I feel that puritan work ethic. Living in Buenos Aires was difficult for that reason.

AYBABTME 13y ago

The trick with SEA is that if you stay long enough, the cost of flying is amortized by the cost of living. That's how, as a student, I managed to spend two summers in Vietnam, coding remotely for a professor for 15$/h, 20h a week. It didn't cost me anything to go there for 4 months. Also depending on when you fly, and with some little research, you can get fairly cheap tickets. If you know you will be in a precarious or idle situation for X weeks, you can balance the cost of staying here (US/Canada) for those X weeks (food, accommodation and some activities) vs flying there and saving a ton on food/accommodation/activities. It seems odd but it's completely true. It also helps that I don't have a mortgage to pay.