8 ms·

Excelent location / country, and probably you'll fall in love with the people and the beautiful CR women. If you happen to be arround El Salvador, I'll be more

by ramayac 13y ago

Excelent location / country, and probably you'll fall in love with the people and the beautiful CR women. If you happen to be arround El Salvador, I'll be more than happy to show you arround. Have a blast!

clhodapp 13y ago
I'm almost sorry to be making this comment, but I feel compelled to. Your comment is an example of casual objectification and I really don't think it's appropriate public discourse. Worse, it perpetuates/fulfills the "boy's club" stereotype of tech startup culture. I'm a bit conflicted because this comment is: 1) Off-topic 2) Technically a personal attack 3) Something of a call for self-censorship However, I feel that it should be made. Feel free to express disagreement or even downmod me if I'm out of line.
- zerr 13y ago
  Unless the OP edited the comment, there is nothing off-topic, it is even interesting. And I don't see any personal attack or something to be censored.
  - clhodapp 13y ago
    That list refers to my own comment. Sorry if there was any confusion.
  - rm999 13y ago
    He's talking about his own comment. Kind of odd that he made such a good case against his comment but hit "reply" anyway. Anyway, this is all really off-topic, just wanted to clarify.
- benologist 13y ago
  Are you saying he shouldn't say 'beautiful women'? Latin America's not as PC as the US - women are openly ogled and married men often have girlfriends. Costa Rica also has a woman president, no military, and almost 100% renewable energy. Check mate.
  - seiji 13y ago
    He's absolutely saying you shouldn't say "beautiful women" in such context. It assumes a heteronormative misogynistic view of the world. Why didn't it say "the hot CR men?" "PC" isn't a flat overboard restriction of expression, it's for advancing a mutual respect of people. Your admission of "women are open ogled" isn't something to be proud of—it's backwards and needs to be corrected by society.
    - benologist 13y ago
      Perhaps he didn't say "the hot CR men" because his personal preference is for women? If he does not find men attractive why should he (or anyone of any persuasion) be required to declare them equally as attractive?
      - jacalata 13y ago
        He wasn't declaring that he loved the women. He was declaring that you, as a group of (single, male) software engineers, will love the women. Why should HN be "required" to fall in line with his preferences?
        benologist 13y ago
        In a room full of men under most circumstances there's going to be between some and most that love women. Addressing that group is not automatically the same as disparaging any other. > Why should HN be "required" to fall in line with his preferences? An excellent question. Why should HN be "required" to fall in line with your preferences? Especially when we can have our own that may or may not include everyone all the time.
        jacalata 13y ago
        I can see why you're confused. I am actually objecting to the idea that HN and software in general is just 'a room full of men'.
- Lambdanaut 13y ago
  This should not be an issue. Men and women both should be able to voice their opinions on people they find appealing, especially in casual ways such as this. Any comment regarding somebody is objectifying that person. Just don't be an asshole when going about it, and everything is fine.
  - clhodapp 13y ago
    My concerns are that: 1) The comment in question reinforces the idea that software teams are made up of men who are interested in being surrounded by beautiful women, which is what I'm referring to when I mention the "boy's club". As another commenter wonderfully puts it, "It assumes a heteronormative misogynistic view of the world." 2) It also makes a separation between 'the people' and 'the beautiful CR women' (though I might be reading too much into the exact wording).
    - Lambdanaut 13y ago
      Yeah, those are legitimate concerns. Perhaps the better way it could've been phrased was "beautiful people" rather than "beautiful women".
- parennoob 13y ago
  I'm almost sorry to be making this [meta] comment, but I feel compelled to. Your comment is an example of rampant policing to make sure everyone is completely flat, bland, and not expressing any personal views or preferences whatsoever. According to you, possibly all communication will consist of weird hedging sentences like "It is an excellent country, you will fall in love with the men, women, transgendered and/or ungendered communities there.", or worse, will drown out all personal emotion altogether, resulting in ridiculous sugary generalisms like "it's great!" (great for what?). Anyway, I feel I should point this out. Feel free to express disagreement or even downmod me if I'm out of line.

by ramayac 13y ago

clhodapp 13y ago

I'm almost sorry to be making this comment, but I feel compelled to. Your comment is an example of casual objectification and I really don't think it's appropriate public discourse. Worse, it perpetuates/fulfills the "boy's club" stereotype of tech startup culture. I'm a bit conflicted because this comment is: 1) Off-topic 2) Technically a personal attack 3) Something of a call for self-censorship However, I feel that it should be made. Feel free to express disagreement or even downmod me if I'm out of line.

zerr 13y ago
Unless the OP edited the comment, there is nothing off-topic, it is even interesting. And I don't see any personal attack or something to be censored.
- clhodapp 13y ago
  That list refers to my own comment. Sorry if there was any confusion.
- rm999 13y ago
  He's talking about his own comment. Kind of odd that he made such a good case against his comment but hit "reply" anyway. Anyway, this is all really off-topic, just wanted to clarify.
benologist 13y ago
Are you saying he shouldn't say 'beautiful women'? Latin America's not as PC as the US - women are openly ogled and married men often have girlfriends. Costa Rica also has a woman president, no military, and almost 100% renewable energy. Check mate.
- seiji 13y ago
  He's absolutely saying you shouldn't say "beautiful women" in such context. It assumes a heteronormative misogynistic view of the world. Why didn't it say "the hot CR men?" "PC" isn't a flat overboard restriction of expression, it's for advancing a mutual respect of people. Your admission of "women are open ogled" isn't something to be proud of—it's backwards and needs to be corrected by society.
  - benologist 13y ago
    Perhaps he didn't say "the hot CR men" because his personal preference is for women? If he does not find men attractive why should he (or anyone of any persuasion) be required to declare them equally as attractive?
    - jacalata 13y ago
      He wasn't declaring that he loved the women. He was declaring that you, as a group of (single, male) software engineers, will love the women. Why should HN be "required" to fall in line with his preferences?
      - benologist 13y ago
        In a room full of men under most circumstances there's going to be between some and most that love women. Addressing that group is not automatically the same as disparaging any other. > Why should HN be "required" to fall in line with his preferences? An excellent question. Why should HN be "required" to fall in line with your preferences? Especially when we can have our own that may or may not include everyone all the time.
        jacalata 13y ago
        I can see why you're confused. I am actually objecting to the idea that HN and software in general is just 'a room full of men'.
Lambdanaut 13y ago
This should not be an issue. Men and women both should be able to voice their opinions on people they find appealing, especially in casual ways such as this. Any comment regarding somebody is objectifying that person. Just don't be an asshole when going about it, and everything is fine.
- clhodapp 13y ago
  My concerns are that: 1) The comment in question reinforces the idea that software teams are made up of men who are interested in being surrounded by beautiful women, which is what I'm referring to when I mention the "boy's club". As another commenter wonderfully puts it, "It assumes a heteronormative misogynistic view of the world." 2) It also makes a separation between 'the people' and 'the beautiful CR women' (though I might be reading too much into the exact wording).
  - Lambdanaut 13y ago
    Yeah, those are legitimate concerns. Perhaps the better way it could've been phrased was "beautiful people" rather than "beautiful women".
parennoob 13y ago
I'm almost sorry to be making this [meta] comment, but I feel compelled to. Your comment is an example of rampant policing to make sure everyone is completely flat, bland, and not expressing any personal views or preferences whatsoever. According to you, possibly all communication will consist of weird hedging sentences like "It is an excellent country, you will fall in love with the men, women, transgendered and/or ungendered communities there.", or worse, will drown out all personal emotion altogether, resulting in ridiculous sugary generalisms like "it's great!" (great for what?). Anyway, I feel I should point this out. Feel free to express disagreement or even downmod me if I'm out of line.