15 ms·

Visualized Heartbeat Can Trigger ‘Out-of-Body Experience’

57 points by chanux 13y ago

petercooper 13y ago
Potentially an interesting weekend project for someone with an Oculus Rift and a USB heart monitor :-)
- stinos 13y ago
  side-project: figure out how high the latency can get before the effects become less apparent. Eg does it still work if there's a delay of half a second between your heart actually beating and you hearing/seeing the sound? Or two seconds?
  - pygy_ 13y ago
    The heart beats at a minimum of 60 BPM (except in endurance athletes where the resting frequency can drop lower). One second of delay or more would offset the flash after the next beat, and, since the heart frequency varies slightly spontaneously, it would probably prevent the phenomenon... or maybe not :-)
  - bentcorner 13y ago
    "Speech Jammer" gadgets do something similar to your speech, and IIRC have been used in speech therapy as well (for stuttering).
- noir_lord 13y ago
  Don't need the heart monitor you could do something like this -> http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2012/amplifying-invisible-video-0622.html http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2012/amplifying-invisible-vide...
- astrobe_ 13y ago
  A mirror and a blinking spotlight also makes it.
pcunite 13y ago
Reading the title of this reminded me of a scene from a movie about Howard Hughes. He was telling his staff that he could not sleep because he kept "hearing his heartbeat all night long". Strange ... don't think I'll try this.
- graeme 13y ago
  That sounds like pulsatile tinnitus. I have it in my left ear following a bike accident where I hurt my jaw. Dentist said it might happen, and was nothing to worry about. You get used to it pretty fast.
- ctdonath 13y ago
  A mechanical heart valve can be loud enough to mistake for a nearby clock. Increased blood pressure makes it louder. Strange, yes, but some things ya just have to get used to.
benjamincburns 13y ago
This is one hell of an odd thing to do out of the blue. I wonder what gave the authors the thought "hey, maybe if we make a bright outline pulse in time with the person's heartbeat." Was there prior research to suggest this, or were they just taking a bit of artistic license to add some mysticism? I honestly wouldn't be too surprised if they were trying to replicate someone's drug-induced hallucinations...
- ksrm 13y ago
  Not really that surprising. Similar research into self-perception and out-of-body experiences has been done before, see e.g. http://www.livescience.com/9526-body-experiences-simulated.html http://www.livescience.com/9526-body-experiences-simulated.h...
- s_baby 13y ago
  >Was there prior research to suggest this, or were they just taking a bit of artistic license to add some mysticism? Research on brainwave entrainment and biofeedback. They've done similar things with EEG machines, binaural beats, electric stimulation, etc... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainwave_entrainment http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainwave_entrainment
frozenport 13y ago
This has a direct impact to virtual reality and videogames. Imagine if we integrated this kind of emersion in video game?
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
lutusp 13y ago
A perfectly absurd, onanistic study, and typical of psychology, but you know what? I wish they would stop calling this "science". It's embarrassing to real science and scientists. Next they'll claim that walking to the corner drugstore produces an out-of-relationship experience.
- scott_s 13y ago
  I'm curious why you say this. Note that they do not mean to imply that the participants actually believe they are out of their body. Just that the contrived situation they were in induced that sensation. And if they are able to reliably induce that sensation in people through that situation, then I think it's worth investigating why.
  - oblique63 13y ago
    It's a semantic nit-pick about the definition of 'science'. He seems to have written an article about it here if you're curious: http://www.arachnoid.com/psychology/index.html http://www.arachnoid.com/psychology/index.html Take it with a grain of salt though: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6194296 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6194296 Either way, this argument is rather orthogonal to whether-or-not the situation is actually 'worthy' of future investigation. So it could still be useful, however the relative maturity of the field limits how accurately we can assess that.
    - lutusp 13y ago
      > It's a semantic nit-pick about the definition of 'science'. It's more substantial than semantics -- without theory shaping and testing, an activity is not science. But let's test this idea scientifically -- let's say this isn't true, that an activity that only describes, that doesn't make an effort to explain, counts as science. Let's see where this takes us. Here we go: Let's say I'm a doctor and I've created a revolutionary cure for the common cold. My cure is to shake a dried gourd over the cold sufferer until he gets better. The cure might take a week, but it always works. My method is repeatable and perfectly reliable, and I've published my cure in a refereed scientific journal (there are now any number of phony refereed scientific journals). And, because (in this thought experiment) science can get along without defining theories, I'm under no obligation to try to explain my cure, or consider alternative explanations for my breakthrough — I only have to describe it, just like a psychologist. Because I've cured the common cold, and because I've met all the requirements that psychology recognizes for science, I deserve a Nobel Prize. Yes or no? Ask yourself what's wrong with this picture, and notice that the same thing is wrong with psychology — all description, no explanation, no established principles on which different psychologists agree, no effort to build consensus, and no unifying theories.
samstave 13y ago
I really dislike it when an article talks about something such as head mounted display, projected image of the body, outline of light around the body AND don't have a freaking picture of what that looks like from the actual system. "We showed users this picture" -- and doesn't include the picture!!
fargolime 13y ago
An OBE can range from a feeling of being located somewhere else, as in this study, or, in my experience, a full-on alternate reality that is every bit as real (albeit different) than this reality. I've learned that our brains (if these experiences are truly contained within it) have the ability to imagine a full reality that is indistinguishable in its "realness" than the one you're experiencing now as you read this.
- spyder 13y ago
  Yes, dreams too can feel extremely real. Also there is lucid dreaming [1] when you realized you are dreaming but the dream environment still feels real. There are claims that brainwaves can be altered with listening to binaural beats [2] because they sync to them and can induce OBE and lucid dreaming, but these claims are unverified and sounds like pseudoscience. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucid_dream http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucid_dream [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binaural_beats http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binaural_beats
  - sbirchall 13y ago
    To add to this, there is also a form of this known as as Astral Projection [1] and there is a great body of esoteric teaching about the common experiences of people who have achieved this. One may achieve access to a "place" known as the Astral Plane[2] that is said to be occupied by certain energies and entities, some of which can impart wisdom and some that can actually inflict psychic damage. I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to make up their own mind on the legitimacy and effectiveness of such practices. I think, like any practiced meditation, it is a matter of deep personal preference whether one sees through the mysticism or is stopped short by it. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astral_projection http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astral_projection [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astral_plane http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astral_plane
    - fargolime 13y ago
      Good info. To me, OBEs and lucid dreams are the same except that in the latter I was asleep before the experience began. I've had many of both but prefer the lucid dreams because in those I'm "hyperspaced" into them with no effort on my part. In the OBEs I have to move from my sleeping spot to someplace interesting, even if it's just the backyard. I don't know if I've every astrally projected, but have met many spirits, who are just people (albeit non-physical) in what I call the spirit world. I don't see it as mystical. I try to keep an open mind about what the reality is (i.e. all in my head and dead is dead, or we're part of something larger and immortal) but lean toward immortality.
losethos 13y ago
Virtual-Notary.Org hereby notes that on Date: Monday August 26, 2013 20:15.29 EDT (UTC-0400) a random drawing in the range [1, 100000], inclusive, based on a hardware source of true randomness, yielded the following decision. Random Value: 22454 man is he that will begin to fight against the children of Ammon? he shall be head over all the inhabitants of Gilead. 11:1 Now Jephthah the Gileadite was a mighty man of valour, and he was the son of an harlot: and Gilead begat Jephthah. 11:2 And Gilead's wife bare him sons; and his wife's sons grew up, and they thrust out Jephthah, and said unto him, Thou shalt not inherit in our father's house; for thou art the son of a strange woman. 11:3 Then Jephthah fled from his brethren, and dwelt in the land of Tob: and there were gathered vain men to Jephthah, and went out with him. 11:4 And it came to pass in process of time, that the children of Ammon made war against Israel. 11:5 And it was so, that when the children of Ammon made war against Israel, the elders of Gilead went to fetch Jephthah out of the land of Tob: 11:6 And they said unto Jephthah, Come, and be our captain, that we may fight with the children of Ammon. 11:7 And Jephthah said unto the elders of Gilead, Did not ye hate me, and expel me out of my father's house? and why are ye come unto me now when ye are in distress? 11:8 And the elders of Gilead said unto Jephthah, Therefore we turn again to thee now, that thou mayest go with us, and fight against the children of Ammon, and be our head over all the inhabitants of Gilead.
baxter001 13y ago
A novel way of reproducing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multisensory_integration#Rubber_hand_illusion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multisensory_integration#Rubber...

57 points by chanux 13y ago

petercooper 13y ago

Potentially an interesting weekend project for someone with an Oculus Rift and a USB heart monitor :-)

stinos 13y ago
side-project: figure out how high the latency can get before the effects become less apparent. Eg does it still work if there's a delay of half a second between your heart actually beating and you hearing/seeing the sound? Or two seconds?
- pygy_ 13y ago
  The heart beats at a minimum of 60 BPM (except in endurance athletes where the resting frequency can drop lower). One second of delay or more would offset the flash after the next beat, and, since the heart frequency varies slightly spontaneously, it would probably prevent the phenomenon... or maybe not :-)
- bentcorner 13y ago
  "Speech Jammer" gadgets do something similar to your speech, and IIRC have been used in speech therapy as well (for stuttering).
noir_lord 13y ago
Don't need the heart monitor you could do something like this -> http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2012/amplifying-invisible-video-0622.html http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2012/amplifying-invisible-vide...
astrobe_ 13y ago
A mirror and a blinking spotlight also makes it.

pcunite 13y ago

Reading the title of this reminded me of a scene from a movie about Howard Hughes. He was telling his staff that he could not sleep because he kept "hearing his heartbeat all night long". Strange ... don't think I'll try this.

graeme 13y ago
That sounds like pulsatile tinnitus. I have it in my left ear following a bike accident where I hurt my jaw. Dentist said it might happen, and was nothing to worry about. You get used to it pretty fast.
ctdonath 13y ago
A mechanical heart valve can be loud enough to mistake for a nearby clock. Increased blood pressure makes it louder. Strange, yes, but some things ya just have to get used to.

benjamincburns 13y ago

This is one hell of an odd thing to do out of the blue. I wonder what gave the authors the thought "hey, maybe if we make a bright outline pulse in time with the person's heartbeat." Was there prior research to suggest this, or were they just taking a bit of artistic license to add some mysticism? I honestly wouldn't be too surprised if they were trying to replicate someone's drug-induced hallucinations...

ksrm 13y ago
Not really that surprising. Similar research into self-perception and out-of-body experiences has been done before, see e.g. http://www.livescience.com/9526-body-experiences-simulated.html http://www.livescience.com/9526-body-experiences-simulated.h...
s_baby 13y ago
>Was there prior research to suggest this, or were they just taking a bit of artistic license to add some mysticism? Research on brainwave entrainment and biofeedback. They've done similar things with EEG machines, binaural beats, electric stimulation, etc... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainwave_entrainment http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainwave_entrainment

frozenport 13y ago

This has a direct impact to virtual reality and videogames. Imagine if we integrated this kind of emersion in video game?

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

lutusp 13y ago

A perfectly absurd, onanistic study, and typical of psychology, but you know what? I wish they would stop calling this "science". It's embarrassing to real science and scientists. Next they'll claim that walking to the corner drugstore produces an out-of-relationship experience.

scott_s 13y ago
I'm curious why you say this. Note that they do not mean to imply that the participants actually believe they are out of their body. Just that the contrived situation they were in induced that sensation. And if they are able to reliably induce that sensation in people through that situation, then I think it's worth investigating why.
- oblique63 13y ago
  It's a semantic nit-pick about the definition of 'science'. He seems to have written an article about it here if you're curious: http://www.arachnoid.com/psychology/index.html http://www.arachnoid.com/psychology/index.html Take it with a grain of salt though: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6194296 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6194296 Either way, this argument is rather orthogonal to whether-or-not the situation is actually 'worthy' of future investigation. So it could still be useful, however the relative maturity of the field limits how accurately we can assess that.
  - lutusp 13y ago
    > It's a semantic nit-pick about the definition of 'science'. It's more substantial than semantics -- without theory shaping and testing, an activity is not science. But let's test this idea scientifically -- let's say this isn't true, that an activity that only describes, that doesn't make an effort to explain, counts as science. Let's see where this takes us. Here we go: Let's say I'm a doctor and I've created a revolutionary cure for the common cold. My cure is to shake a dried gourd over the cold sufferer until he gets better. The cure might take a week, but it always works. My method is repeatable and perfectly reliable, and I've published my cure in a refereed scientific journal (there are now any number of phony refereed scientific journals). And, because (in this thought experiment) science can get along without defining theories, I'm under no obligation to try to explain my cure, or consider alternative explanations for my breakthrough — I only have to describe it, just like a psychologist. Because I've cured the common cold, and because I've met all the requirements that psychology recognizes for science, I deserve a Nobel Prize. Yes or no? Ask yourself what's wrong with this picture, and notice that the same thing is wrong with psychology — all description, no explanation, no established principles on which different psychologists agree, no effort to build consensus, and no unifying theories.

samstave 13y ago

I really dislike it when an article talks about something such as head mounted display, projected image of the body, outline of light around the body AND don't have a freaking picture of what that looks like from the actual system. "We showed users this picture" -- and doesn't include the picture!!

fargolime 13y ago

An OBE can range from a feeling of being located somewhere else, as in this study, or, in my experience, a full-on alternate reality that is every bit as real (albeit different) than this reality. I've learned that our brains (if these experiences are truly contained within it) have the ability to imagine a full reality that is indistinguishable in its "realness" than the one you're experiencing now as you read this.

spyder 13y ago
Yes, dreams too can feel extremely real. Also there is lucid dreaming [1] when you realized you are dreaming but the dream environment still feels real. There are claims that brainwaves can be altered with listening to binaural beats [2] because they sync to them and can induce OBE and lucid dreaming, but these claims are unverified and sounds like pseudoscience. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucid_dream http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucid_dream [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binaural_beats http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binaural_beats
- sbirchall 13y ago
  To add to this, there is also a form of this known as as Astral Projection [1] and there is a great body of esoteric teaching about the common experiences of people who have achieved this. One may achieve access to a "place" known as the Astral Plane[2] that is said to be occupied by certain energies and entities, some of which can impart wisdom and some that can actually inflict psychic damage. I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to make up their own mind on the legitimacy and effectiveness of such practices. I think, like any practiced meditation, it is a matter of deep personal preference whether one sees through the mysticism or is stopped short by it. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astral_projection http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astral_projection [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astral_plane http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astral_plane
  - fargolime 13y ago
    Good info. To me, OBEs and lucid dreams are the same except that in the latter I was asleep before the experience began. I've had many of both but prefer the lucid dreams because in those I'm "hyperspaced" into them with no effort on my part. In the OBEs I have to move from my sleeping spot to someplace interesting, even if it's just the backyard. I don't know if I've every astrally projected, but have met many spirits, who are just people (albeit non-physical) in what I call the spirit world. I don't see it as mystical. I try to keep an open mind about what the reality is (i.e. all in my head and dead is dead, or we're part of something larger and immortal) but lean toward immortality.

losethos 13y ago

Virtual-Notary.Org hereby notes that on Date: Monday August 26, 2013 20:15.29 EDT (UTC-0400) a random drawing in the range [1, 100000], inclusive, based on a hardware source of true randomness, yielded the following decision. Random Value: 22454 man is he that will begin to fight against the children of Ammon? he shall be head over all the inhabitants of Gilead. 11:1 Now Jephthah the Gileadite was a mighty man of valour, and he was the son of an harlot: and Gilead begat Jephthah. 11:2 And Gilead's wife bare him sons; and his wife's sons grew up, and they thrust out Jephthah, and said unto him, Thou shalt not inherit in our father's house; for thou art the son of a strange woman. 11:3 Then Jephthah fled from his brethren, and dwelt in the land of Tob: and there were gathered vain men to Jephthah, and went out with him. 11:4 And it came to pass in process of time, that the children of Ammon made war against Israel. 11:5 And it was so, that when the children of Ammon made war against Israel, the elders of Gilead went to fetch Jephthah out of the land of Tob: 11:6 And they said unto Jephthah, Come, and be our captain, that we may fight with the children of Ammon. 11:7 And Jephthah said unto the elders of Gilead, Did not ye hate me, and expel me out of my father's house? and why are ye come unto me now when ye are in distress? 11:8 And the elders of Gilead said unto Jephthah, Therefore we turn again to thee now, that thou mayest go with us, and fight against the children of Ammon, and be our head over all the inhabitants of Gilead.

baxter001 13y ago

A novel way of reproducing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multisensory_integration#Rubber_hand_illusion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multisensory_integration#Rubber...