6 ms·

Want to keep your rights and freedom? It's time to act, now. History is full of great things going all the way down. Don't wait for the Superman.

by gokhan 13y ago

lazyjones 13y ago
> It's time to act, now Suggested courses of action? Tried and didn't work: * voting * not voting * protesting online / offline * writing about these issues, raising awareness What options do we have left? Violence? Hopefully there's more.
- einhverfr 13y ago
  It is in the little things. But it is also in everything together. My rule is that if I protest, I write my congressmen. If I voted based on issues I wrote about I write them and explain my votes. I have at times gotten interesting responses that show I have sometimes managed to get folks to stop and think which is all one can hope to do. But beyond that we need to do what is needed now. We need to get guaranteed secure email services going in nations which have strong privacy protections. We need to create networks of end-to-end encrypted voice traffic which use open source architectures designed for privacy. The NSA has handed the good guys one heck of a market. All that is needed is the time and effort.
- yuvadam 13y ago
  In this battle, there is no quick win, no proverbial low-hanging fruit. Never forget that by changing your actions, and your awareness, you are influencing other to do the same.
- ferno 13y ago
  What about waiting for something drastically bad to happen? That'll wake people up, won't it? I think the issue here is that the US populace on average is much too complacent. People don't "care", they don't see how it affects them, etc.
  - justinlilly 13y ago
    There's a great podcast called Hardcore History[2] which has some significance here. There's a podcast titled something similar to "Justifiable Insanity" that talks about the end of WW2. People got into the mental trap of "Well, if we do something particularly heinous, they'll HAVE to surrender!". This lead to things like firestorms of Dresden and Hamburg, which had immense (esp. for the time period) death tolls.[0][1] So, be careful with the tactic of "Well, if something REALLY bad happens.." [0]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Hamburg_in_World_War_II http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Hamburg_in_World_War... [1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War... [2]: http://www.dancarlin.com/disp.php/hharchive http://www.dancarlin.com/disp.php/hharchive
- sentenza 13y ago
  What country are you in? Because as far as I can see, there has not been much offline protesting (participation-wise). And online protests are mostly useless. 10.000 people in the streets raise more attention than 10.000.000 facebook likes.
- eatitraw 13y ago
  Governments are inherently prone to corruption and abuse of power. It is stupid to grant the single entity the right to proctect you, your life and your well-being. What we need is multiple court systems, multiple police systems, etc. And what's more important -- the ability to freely choose between them. Just like you're able to choose Pepsi over Coke or to choose Google over Bing, or to choose one bank over another. This isn't easy system to achieve, but mostly because a lot of people are skeptical. More on this topic: http://mises.org/rothbard/newlibertywhole.asp http://mises.org/rothbard/newlibertywhole.asp
- honzzz 13y ago
  I think that The Power of the Powerless, essay written about this topic in 1978 by Vaclav Havel, might be interesting even these days. I am not sure it can resonate with western people. Nevertheless, I am going to give it a try: http://www.vaclavhavel.cz/showtrans.php?cat=eseje&val=2_aj_eseje.html&typ=HTML http://www.vaclavhavel.cz/showtrans.php?cat=eseje&val=2_aj_e...
- cookiecaper 13y ago
  Teach people about client-side encryption.
  - lazyjones 13y ago
    As an IT professional I cannot honestly do this without going much further (like teaching them about using an Open Source OS instead of Windows, the dangers of modern hardware components like PCI NICs, BIOSes that may be remotely infected by malware/modified, keyloggers, TEMPEST, defeating Truecrypt, PGP, Bitlocker with memory dumps etc.), way out of scope for a normal person. I don't think it's feasible for most IT-savvy people to access the Internet using commodity hardware (regardless of software) without exposing themselves to mass-surveillance or at least inherent weaknesses that may be exploited for that purpose at some point when secure client-side encryption becomes more widespread so that just snooping traffic at major backbones is no longer sufficient. As a result, it would feel wrong to give people a false sense of security by teaching them about client-side encryption only.
- snowwrestler 13y ago
  What a joke. Please educate yourself about the history of successful social movements like labor rights, civil rights, environmental protection, etc. The privacy movement has not even begun to begin what is necessary to change the law. For example: can you name the leading organization that works solely on privacy? There isn't one. The issue is only sort-of covered if you add up the partial work of a bunch of different orgs, like the EFF, ACLU, NRA, Emily's List, etc. So: want to move the needle? Start an organization, raise many millions of dollars, collect thousands of contacts, and then run a big scary public and grassroots campaign. Give money to privacy-friendly politicians, and spend independent money to defeat opponents of privacy. Recruit privacy-friendly folks to run for local, state, or federal office. Take meetings with corporate, regulatory, and congressional staff to find folks who are sympathetic to the cause. Run privacy conferences. Pay people to write privacy blogs. Pick a nasty law and create a test case to get it into litigation. Etc, etc. Now you might say "we shouldn't have to do that." And you're right. But: life isn't fair. Black people should not have had to risk lynchings in order to vote, but they did--and they did it. And they fought it.
  - clebio 13y ago
    good suggestions (I'd add HRW), but you could leave the disrespectful attitude aside. Instead of your first paragraph, maybe mention the publications of the Albert Enstein Institute (http://www.aeinstein.org/ http://www.aeinstein.org/).
  - lazyjones 13y ago
    I don't see the necessity to play exactly the same game our political establishment is playing (raising millions, spin-doctoring, bribery) in order to beat the system from within. It may be one way to do it, but it's costly and seems extremely inefficient. Hopefully there are other ways to achieve something. Frankly, I am unsure about your intentions for writing the above post. You insinuate that organizations like the EFF are not suitable to fight the fight for privacy. You make this look like a gargantuan effort to even get started. Are you trying to discourage people or have you just given up?
    - snowwrestler 13y ago
- espeed 13y ago
  Corporate boycotts. Massive, Internet-wide corporate boycotts. Corporate lobbyists influence/fund politicians so influence the funders. See "Lawrence Lessig: We the People, and the Republic we must reclaim" (http://www.ted.com/talks/lawrence_lessig_we_the_people_and_the_republic_we_must_reclaim.html http://www.ted.com/talks/lawrence_lessig_we_the_people_and_t...) What would the effects be from a flash boycott if X-million people suddenly stopped buying from a corporation? Someone could devise a model to calculate the effects and find potential candidates. The SOPA blackout showed what's possible when the Internet organizes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protests_against_SOPA_and_PIPA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protests_against_SOPA_and_PIPA). Turn it into an Internet meme that empowers the people, and keep it going until the echo grows too loud to be ignored. It would probably require the cooperation of a team of computer scientists, finance geeks, and social-marketing gurus to organize the campaign. Or maybe one clever hacker could pull it off. See "Derek Sivers: How to start a movement" (http://www.ted.com/talks/derek_sivers_how_to_start_a_movement.html http://www.ted.com/talks/derek_sivers_how_to_start_a_movemen...) Rootstrikers: http://www.rootstrikers.org/ted_promo http://www.rootstrikers.org/ted_promo
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
- bct 13y ago
  Organize. It's the only course of action that has ever worked. Voting/not voting/protesting/etc. are tactics that are only useful as part of a larger campaign, and as part of a large group committed to a particular goal.
zby 13y ago
There is this annual event "Freedom not Fear" which is about protesting against government surveillance - this year in Germany there is a huge coalition organizing demonstrations on September 7 http://blog.freiheitstattangst.de/ http://blog.freiheitstattangst.de/ Hashtag: #fnf13 The pirate parties together with other organizations all over the world plan to join in. Spread the message and contact me if you plan to organize something.

Want to keep your rights and freedom? It's time to act, now. History is full of great things going all the way down. Don't wait for the Superman.

by gokhan 13y ago

Want to keep your rights and freedom? It's time to act, now. History is full of great things going all the way down. Don't wait for the Superman.

lazyjones 13y ago

> It's time to act, now Suggested courses of action? Tried and didn't work: * voting * not voting * protesting online / offline * writing about these issues, raising awareness What options do we have left? Violence? Hopefully there's more.

einhverfr 13y ago
It is in the little things. But it is also in everything together. My rule is that if I protest, I write my congressmen. If I voted based on issues I wrote about I write them and explain my votes. I have at times gotten interesting responses that show I have sometimes managed to get folks to stop and think which is all one can hope to do. But beyond that we need to do what is needed now. We need to get guaranteed secure email services going in nations which have strong privacy protections. We need to create networks of end-to-end encrypted voice traffic which use open source architectures designed for privacy. The NSA has handed the good guys one heck of a market. All that is needed is the time and effort.
yuvadam 13y ago
In this battle, there is no quick win, no proverbial low-hanging fruit. Never forget that by changing your actions, and your awareness, you are influencing other to do the same.
ferno 13y ago
What about waiting for something drastically bad to happen? That'll wake people up, won't it? I think the issue here is that the US populace on average is much too complacent. People don't "care", they don't see how it affects them, etc.
- justinlilly 13y ago
  There's a great podcast called Hardcore History[2] which has some significance here. There's a podcast titled something similar to "Justifiable Insanity" that talks about the end of WW2. People got into the mental trap of "Well, if we do something particularly heinous, they'll HAVE to surrender!". This lead to things like firestorms of Dresden and Hamburg, which had immense (esp. for the time period) death tolls.[0][1] So, be careful with the tactic of "Well, if something REALLY bad happens.." [0]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Hamburg_in_World_War_II http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Hamburg_in_World_War... [1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War... [2]: http://www.dancarlin.com/disp.php/hharchive http://www.dancarlin.com/disp.php/hharchive
sentenza 13y ago
What country are you in? Because as far as I can see, there has not been much offline protesting (participation-wise). And online protests are mostly useless. 10.000 people in the streets raise more attention than 10.000.000 facebook likes.
eatitraw 13y ago
Governments are inherently prone to corruption and abuse of power. It is stupid to grant the single entity the right to proctect you, your life and your well-being. What we need is multiple court systems, multiple police systems, etc. And what's more important -- the ability to freely choose between them. Just like you're able to choose Pepsi over Coke or to choose Google over Bing, or to choose one bank over another. This isn't easy system to achieve, but mostly because a lot of people are skeptical. More on this topic: http://mises.org/rothbard/newlibertywhole.asp http://mises.org/rothbard/newlibertywhole.asp
honzzz 13y ago
I think that The Power of the Powerless, essay written about this topic in 1978 by Vaclav Havel, might be interesting even these days. I am not sure it can resonate with western people. Nevertheless, I am going to give it a try: http://www.vaclavhavel.cz/showtrans.php?cat=eseje&val=2_aj_eseje.html&typ=HTML http://www.vaclavhavel.cz/showtrans.php?cat=eseje&val=2_aj_e...
cookiecaper 13y ago
Teach people about client-side encryption.
- lazyjones 13y ago
  As an IT professional I cannot honestly do this without going much further (like teaching them about using an Open Source OS instead of Windows, the dangers of modern hardware components like PCI NICs, BIOSes that may be remotely infected by malware/modified, keyloggers, TEMPEST, defeating Truecrypt, PGP, Bitlocker with memory dumps etc.), way out of scope for a normal person. I don't think it's feasible for most IT-savvy people to access the Internet using commodity hardware (regardless of software) without exposing themselves to mass-surveillance or at least inherent weaknesses that may be exploited for that purpose at some point when secure client-side encryption becomes more widespread so that just snooping traffic at major backbones is no longer sufficient. As a result, it would feel wrong to give people a false sense of security by teaching them about client-side encryption only.
snowwrestler 13y ago
What a joke. Please educate yourself about the history of successful social movements like labor rights, civil rights, environmental protection, etc. The privacy movement has not even begun to begin what is necessary to change the law. For example: can you name the leading organization that works solely on privacy? There isn't one. The issue is only sort-of covered if you add up the partial work of a bunch of different orgs, like the EFF, ACLU, NRA, Emily's List, etc. So: want to move the needle? Start an organization, raise many millions of dollars, collect thousands of contacts, and then run a big scary public and grassroots campaign. Give money to privacy-friendly politicians, and spend independent money to defeat opponents of privacy. Recruit privacy-friendly folks to run for local, state, or federal office. Take meetings with corporate, regulatory, and congressional staff to find folks who are sympathetic to the cause. Run privacy conferences. Pay people to write privacy blogs. Pick a nasty law and create a test case to get it into litigation. Etc, etc. Now you might say "we shouldn't have to do that." And you're right. But: life isn't fair. Black people should not have had to risk lynchings in order to vote, but they did--and they did it. And they fought it.
- clebio 13y ago
  good suggestions (I'd add HRW), but you could leave the disrespectful attitude aside. Instead of your first paragraph, maybe mention the publications of the Albert Enstein Institute (http://www.aeinstein.org/ http://www.aeinstein.org/).
- lazyjones 13y ago
  I don't see the necessity to play exactly the same game our political establishment is playing (raising millions, spin-doctoring, bribery) in order to beat the system from within. It may be one way to do it, but it's costly and seems extremely inefficient. Hopefully there are other ways to achieve something. Frankly, I am unsure about your intentions for writing the above post. You insinuate that organizations like the EFF are not suitable to fight the fight for privacy. You make this look like a gargantuan effort to even get started. Are you trying to discourage people or have you just given up?
  - snowwrestler 13y ago
espeed 13y ago
Corporate boycotts. Massive, Internet-wide corporate boycotts. Corporate lobbyists influence/fund politicians so influence the funders. See "Lawrence Lessig: We the People, and the Republic we must reclaim" (http://www.ted.com/talks/lawrence_lessig_we_the_people_and_the_republic_we_must_reclaim.html http://www.ted.com/talks/lawrence_lessig_we_the_people_and_t...) What would the effects be from a flash boycott if X-million people suddenly stopped buying from a corporation? Someone could devise a model to calculate the effects and find potential candidates. The SOPA blackout showed what's possible when the Internet organizes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protests_against_SOPA_and_PIPA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protests_against_SOPA_and_PIPA). Turn it into an Internet meme that empowers the people, and keep it going until the echo grows too loud to be ignored. It would probably require the cooperation of a team of computer scientists, finance geeks, and social-marketing gurus to organize the campaign. Or maybe one clever hacker could pull it off. See "Derek Sivers: How to start a movement" (http://www.ted.com/talks/derek_sivers_how_to_start_a_movement.html http://www.ted.com/talks/derek_sivers_how_to_start_a_movemen...) Rootstrikers: http://www.rootstrikers.org/ted_promo http://www.rootstrikers.org/ted_promo
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
bct 13y ago
Organize. It's the only course of action that has ever worked. Voting/not voting/protesting/etc. are tactics that are only useful as part of a larger campaign, and as part of a large group committed to a particular goal.

zby 13y ago

There is this annual event "Freedom not Fear" which is about protesting against government surveillance - this year in Germany there is a huge coalition organizing demonstrations on September 7 http://blog.freiheitstattangst.de/ http://blog.freiheitstattangst.de/ Hashtag: #fnf13 The pirate parties together with other organizations all over the world plan to join in. Spread the message and contact me if you plan to organize something.