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I think O.P was conflating two issues there, one about patriarchy in India being very traditional, two about misogyny (apparently) being rampant. I for one don

by chunky1994 13y ago

I think O.P was conflating two issues there, one about patriarchy in India being very traditional, two about misogyny (apparently) being rampant. I for one don't expect anyone to be okay with misogyny, whether it be cultural or not, and I presume all the other Indians here feel the same way.

MichaelSalib 13y ago
But aren't patriarchy and misogyny fundamentally related? I mean, are there any societies with strong patriarchal norms but very little misogyny?
- chunky1994 13y ago
  It heavily depends on your definitions of both those terms. However, strictly speaking, patriarchy in itself while still constraining of women (an egalitarian society would be much better), also required heavily duty-bound behavior from men. Something which is not conducive to open or effective misogyny. I do not know of any societies with strong patriarchal norms and very little misogyny, if they do indeed exist.
  - richardjordan 13y ago
    Yeah I'm calling BS on that. Patriarchy in cultures is without fail about the control of women. All niceties around protecting them boil down to treating them as property, as chattel. You fundamentally don't have an equal situation when one gender is rendered property of another. ergo misogyny
rm999 13y ago
Yes you are entirely correct, I mixed up those concepts when I was writing my comment. I meant to highlight the cultural patriarchy and distance myself from the misogyny ("I won't defend this"). I do think much of the misogyny in India stems from their patriarchal values, but misogyny is a social issue rather than a cultural concept. I doubt many Indian women are cool with misogyny...
- dfc 13y ago
  Social issue versus cultural concept This is a new distinction (and somewhat confusing) for me. What is the difference between a social issue and a cultural concept?
  - rm999 13y ago
    Examples: While Indian culture is patriarchal, its society can be quite misogynistic. While American culture deeply frowns upon racism, racism is a very real and ubiquitous social issue. In the first example the societal behaviors arise from the culture, in the second I show that they can be totally contradictory. Society is about the way people act among each other, culture is what is passed on and shared among a group of people. I really hate to cite wikianswers because it's one of my least favorite sites, but this description is exactly what I am getting at: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_difference_between_social_and_cultural_history http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_difference_between_soc... >"Society" is more about, "How do all these people interact?" "Culture" is more about, "What do they believe, and what do they value?"

MichaelSalib 13y ago

But aren't patriarchy and misogyny fundamentally related? I mean, are there any societies with strong patriarchal norms but very little misogyny?

chunky1994 13y ago
It heavily depends on your definitions of both those terms. However, strictly speaking, patriarchy in itself while still constraining of women (an egalitarian society would be much better), also required heavily duty-bound behavior from men. Something which is not conducive to open or effective misogyny. I do not know of any societies with strong patriarchal norms and very little misogyny, if they do indeed exist.
- richardjordan 13y ago
  Yeah I'm calling BS on that. Patriarchy in cultures is without fail about the control of women. All niceties around protecting them boil down to treating them as property, as chattel. You fundamentally don't have an equal situation when one gender is rendered property of another. ergo misogyny

rm999 13y ago

Yes you are entirely correct, I mixed up those concepts when I was writing my comment. I meant to highlight the cultural patriarchy and distance myself from the misogyny ("I won't defend this"). I do think much of the misogyny in India stems from their patriarchal values, but misogyny is a social issue rather than a cultural concept. I doubt many Indian women are cool with misogyny...

dfc 13y ago
Social issue versus cultural concept This is a new distinction (and somewhat confusing) for me. What is the difference between a social issue and a cultural concept?
- rm999 13y ago
  Examples: While Indian culture is patriarchal, its society can be quite misogynistic. While American culture deeply frowns upon racism, racism is a very real and ubiquitous social issue. In the first example the societal behaviors arise from the culture, in the second I show that they can be totally contradictory. Society is about the way people act among each other, culture is what is passed on and shared among a group of people. I really hate to cite wikianswers because it's one of my least favorite sites, but this description is exactly what I am getting at: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_difference_between_social_and_cultural_history http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_difference_between_soc... >"Society" is more about, "How do all these people interact?" "Culture" is more about, "What do they believe, and what do they value?"