21 ms·

Do I Really Want All This Stuff?

102 points by georgebonnr 13y ago

Negitivefrags 13y ago
"Stuff" really is the worst. I'm only 27 and I'm already feeling the pain. All I can say is that I'm very happy that media no longer takes space to store. My father has acres of shelf space dedicated to books, CDs, records and even cassette tapes. I will never buy a physical book again, and I really need to get around to giving away all the books I have now. I've never owned a physical CD or a DVD. I wont be plagued by photo albums. And then there is paper. If I never receive another letter in my life it will be too soon.
- cpursley 13y ago
  Yep, being able to store media digitally is HUGE.
- lpolovets 13y ago
  I bought a ScanSnap scanner a few years ago. It's a $400 scanner that can scan pretty much any document -- even double-sided ones. It applies OCR to printed text and can create searchable PDFs for you. At first I balked at the price tag, then bit the bullet and purchased the scanner, and now I think it's one of the best purchases that I've ever made. I've been able to recycle thousands of documents thanks to this thing.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- jodrellblank 13y ago
  Your media clutter isn't gone, it's just out of sight. What's on your digital storage and how tidy, and necessary is it all?
mathgladiator 13y ago
Obligatory George Carlin Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvgN5gCuLac https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvgN5gCuLac
- simonebrunozzi 13y ago
  "their stuff is shit, and your shit is stuff". LOL.
jpmattia 13y ago
The wife and I moved cross-country two years ago, and were living out of suitcases for a couple of weeks while the moving truck caught up to us. Somewhere around day 10 we realized: If the moving truck was vaporized by a meteor, and they handed us a check for the amount it was insured for, we would have considered it a good trade. So a lot of crap got ditched (after paying to move it clear across the country facepalm). We now live by the equal-volume rule: For anything that comes into the house, something of equal or greater volume must leave.
- reeses 13y ago
  Now the question is, if a meteor vaporized the moving truck, and you did not receive a check for the loss, would you be satisfied?
NoodleIncident 13y ago
I'm all for getting rid of stuff; stuff costs money, takes up space, and you have to think about it every time you come across it. But you can take my heat and air conditioning out of my dead, 72°F hands.
- reeses 13y ago
  Is that because you're so ascetic that you haven't cut your hair or fingernails in 20 years and they are literally attached to your central heating? :-) That wonderful temperature between 21-22ºC is truly excellent. Paris in the springtime.
- mtts 13y ago
  This was actually somewhat of a weak point in the story: Chinese people do not leave the heater off out of frugality but because they think it's unhealthy to have a large temperature difference between the outside of a container (a house, say, or your own body) and the inside. Of course modern, wealthy Chinese are starting to eat ice cream in summer and turning on the heat in winter (and, to be fair, in places where it gets really, really cold, like in Beijing, they've always had heating in winter) so this attitude is changing, but some of it still persists. Bottled water (and beer in restaurants!) is mostly sold unrefrigerated and Chinese shopping malls in summer are nowhere near as glacial as their counterparts in SE Asia or the west.
ChuckMcM 13y ago
It is insidious. In what I thought was a clever inversion there was a gal in LA who had a 'reverse' birthday party, which was that it was her birthday but the living room was filled with things they didn't use, so the rule was everyone had to leave with a gift and no one could bring one. I find I have a hard time throwing stuff away that I know somebody would use. (example a complete orignal Xbox with about a dozen games, two controllers, remote etc) Freecycle used to be good for this, Craigslist still is. Weird though when people get into fights over something you're tossing.
- kaybe 13y ago
  That sounds like the Hobbit way of celebrating birthdays.. the prologue of Lord of the Rings is quite interesting in this regard. ..'anything that Hobbits had no immiate use for, but were unwilling to throw away, they called a mathom. Their dwellings were apt to become rather crowded with mathoms, and many of the presents that passed from hand to hand were of that sort.'
Oculus 13y ago
I had a rude wake up call not too long ago when I realized our entire world is filled with consumerism and that a lot of us (including myself) are guilty of participating.
MaxScheiber 13y ago
"The things you own end up owning you." Tyler Durden I'm enjoying the life of frugality as a college student right now. My summer apartment has little besides my laptop, a couple of books, clothes / toiletries, my saxophone, and food. It's rather nice. It's hard to waste time being idle. If I'm bored, I need to be social and hang out with someone; I can't waste time playing video games or watching TV. (I'm fortunately pretty sparse with my computer use — GChat, vim, and music mostly.) Every now and then, a friend, upon entering my apartment, will comment on how bare it is. I just smile and say, "Isn't it much simpler this way?"
- derefr 13y ago
  Articles like this reminds me that I'm probably not the target audience of the Palahniuk quote. I tend to think things like "do I really need to own a large pot? Couldn't I just do several smaller batches of food in a small pot?" and "why do I need a chair in my bedroom if I can sit on my bed?" But I actually try to banish these thoughts--they're almost as dangerous a mindset to get into as that of a hoarder, I think--because the experience of sitting crosslegged on your bed typing on a laptop, with your back aching, reminds you that some possessions actually are a marked improvement to your life. There are a certain number of objects I am alright with being owned by.
  - MaxScheiber 13y ago
    I certainly wouldn't call owning a chair being owned by your belongings. :P I think the bigger picture to look at here is that we, as humans, are creative. When we move into an empty apartment, we see a blank slate, prime for decoration. It's very easy to browse Target, Marshalls, or Ikea and want to buy things that look cool because hey, I have a decent salary and cheap housing. Case in point — I bought a Nerf basketball hoop as a spur-of-the-moment purchase. Haven't touched it once. I definitely had to use restraint on other such purchases. So I guess that's what worries me. It's so easy to acquire junk that isn't essential. A pretty Spartan summer definitely showed me what is really essential and what isn't.
    - nileshtrivedi 13y ago
westicle 13y ago
For anyone interested in what happens to all this "stuff" at the other end... I administer several deceased estates (the process for which is to locate and prove the will (if applicable), gather in and dispose of the assets, distribute the balance). As most deceased people tend to be in the 70+ age bracket, it is very unlikely that you can even comprehend the volume of "stuff" involved in that undertaking. Typically, 1% - 5% of the stuff has any commercial value. There might be jewellery, an antique or two. I can usually get $100 for a working fridge. Unfortunately we live in a disposable culture - we are geared to buy new rather than re-use old. Some small proportion of the rest of the stuff can be donated (ie. charities will accept it). The rest fills up 2-5 rubbish skips (6 cubic metres each) and subsequently landfill. Look around your house. Experience indicates that on your death I'll recover approximately $900 from selling your stuff.
- Renaud 13y ago
  >... I'll recover approximately $900 from selling your stuff. A sobering thought. I'm a bit late for my spring-cleaning, now is as a good a time as any.
- sliverstorm 13y ago
  Unfortunately we live in a disposable culture - we are geared to buy new rather than re-use old. I think a lot of that has to do with the markets for new & used goods. There are many things I would be perfectly fine buying used, but have no hope of locating for sale in any reasonable span of time.
  - adestefan 13y ago
    Or price. People tend to overvalue used items.
  - jodrellblank 13y ago
    Are you suggesting there's room for disrupting eBay?
- sushimako 13y ago
  I've heard of "apartment-looting" parties in Vienna, don't know if this is common elsewhere? In order to empty a deceased apartment, they publicly sell a limited number of tickets (~20-30EUR iirc) for a cleaning/looting event. At the event, they let in a certain number of people at the same time, so it doesn't feel too crowded. Once inside, everyone is free to take whatever they want and can. This is fairly popular with students who just moved into their new flat and need stuff like kitchen supplies, lamps, frames etc.
6d0debc071 13y ago
Small apartments can be nice: http://youtu.be/cWnFgpiCrQo http://youtu.be/cWnFgpiCrQo Though I probably wouldn't go quite that far. --------------- The majority of my 'stuff' by volume, and probably by weight, is books. Even with the advent of ereaders, I still prefer having the thing in my hand. They're interesting things but I find it a lot harder to just flick through reference manuals and the like picking out interesting things in that format. Next up's probably clothes - it just takes a lot of space to hang stuff properly; if you fold a nice dress into a draw, it can easily get ruined.
- 3stripe 13y ago
  Thanks so much for posting that video link, the best thing I've seen on YouTube this month!
ryandrake 13y ago
Wow, hate to sound insensitive, but there seem to be a lot of "First World Problems" on Medium today. "Do I really need all my possessions?" and "I'm leaving my great job at Google because I'm sad". Why can't people just enjoy the fact that they're doing better than 90% of the planet, and not always be trying to find something to have an emotional crisis over? As someone who's been unemployed and weeks from insolvency, I'm happy for the job and stuff I have, and appreciate it, because it could be taken away at any moment.
- mindcrime 13y ago
  Wow, hate to sound insensitive, but there seem to be a lot of "First World Problems" on Medium today. So? Do you really think that simply screaming "first world problem" at somebody makes their problems any less important to them? At the end of the day, we are all living our own lives, and our own problems are pretty damn important in relative terms. Should we criticize somebody for wanting to maximize their happiness during their short-time in this world?
- reeses 13y ago
  Symptoms. People lack, for want of a better word, meaning in life. They're looking for it in various places, whether that be via the frisson from buying that glass hummingbird at Gump's or getting a new job selling advertising space on the web. That this is a 'first world' problem is a sign of affluence. You're bouncing against the ceiling of Maslow's 'esteem' and failing to break into 'self-actualization'. When you look at these people wondering at the angst they feel because they can't believe they made poor choices in buying not just twice the amount of stuff they need, but three, four, or ten times as much, it's because they live in a society that has (more or less) solved hunger, personal safety, social interaction, etc. There's this middle ground where they can see that they're unhappy. They can't see what would make them happy, only things that would make them unhappy. They look at people who don't have the current source of unhappiness and they see that those people do not seem less happy for their lack of possessions. "Oh, it must be my attachment to tchotchkes that causes my unhappiness. If I get rid of everything, I will be happy." In many cases, this "meaning" was provided by religion or by an extended family. Some "higher purpose", whether it was preparing the next generation for the future, or their souls for a post-physical existence. In many cases, it's a "legacy" that is a third way to immortality. People have to reach a point of deciding if "happiness" is the optimization they need or want. A friend uses the phase "Budweiser and NASCAR" for the condescending view of the basest American pursuit of short-term happiness or amusement. This is just another form of that, just of a different social class. Looking at the 99% or the developing (or failed) countries is still an externality. It can help frame the scope of your unhappiness, but it is irrelevant how happy you are related to a child soldier in Somalia. You can be grateful for your fortune and privilege, and that can be a good thing, but you're not interchangeable. Unfortunately, there's no royal road to enlightenment. It is, and should be, hard work. Knowing yourself and discerning what is truly important takes a lot of honesty and reflection. You'll have to redefine superficial and deep, as well as a lot of other labels. You'll have to figure out your worldview, your true values and principles, and how far you are from becoming the person you want or need to be.
orofino 13y ago
Last year we sold our things and left to travel around the world. We'd lived in a house for three years, I'd lived in an apartment for two prior to that. It required two garage sales and countless trips to goodwill. It was sickening at times, how little you could sell your things for. We got back a thousand maybe 1.5k on our goods, the rest was a write off. Even still we had about 8 boxes of stuff when we moved out. We came back from traveling sooner than expected and had to re-buy a lot of things, but we've been cautious not to get too many 'useless' things. That isn't to say there is nothing to adorn our apartment, just... much less. In general I'm happier this way, we've got pictures we took on the walls, a few things we picked up traveling, kitchen stuff, and furniture. I hope never again to get to the point where we were before. Worst part of selling your stuff: getting rid of our books.
- nileshtrivedi 13y ago
  Books and musical instruments are two things that are dearly loved. Can't even lend them to others while we are travelling because no one takes as good care of them as we ourselves do. Sigh.
- keithpeter 13y ago
  "Worst part of selling your stuff: getting rid of our books." The actual mechanics is easy, OXFAM. Its the choosing I find hard. I cleared a couple of single shelves (out of 34!) and ended up re-reading about 5 books.
stevewillows 13y ago
One of the best things I ever did was get divorced and walk away from nearly everything. I took: - clothes - laptop / server - chef's knife - cutting board - kitchen table Results.
- reeses 13y ago
  You might be forgetting the other thing you left behind that was causing even more pain than, say, a car. :-)
lifeformed 13y ago
All the stuff I own that I care about fits in just enough space to take with me on a plane. When I move, I just give away or sell things like furniture and kitchen stuff. It's not too expensive replacing it all with cheap Ikea items.
- nileshtrivedi 13y ago
  Lucky you. Don't have books or musical instruments? Those two are the biggest blockers for me. Furniture and kitchen stuff is easy to give away and buy again. Edit: Things could be worse though. I play guitar, not drums. :)
  - lifeformed 13y ago
    I have instruments: some midi controllers and 2 audio monitors to go with it. I found a perfect sized bag that can fit it all, along with my computer stuff. I just have that bag, a big suitcase of clothes, and my carry-ons. I do have books but not too many, and I don't take them with me. I keep most of my stuff like in long term storage (my parents basement).
mathattack 13y ago
The "stuff" I struggle with pitching is books. It just seems criminal. And I hate that I can only get 10% of what I paid from a used book store. But I miss very little of anything that I've pitched over the years. Out of sight, out of mind.
- kens 13y ago
  It's interesting how books have this almost religious aura to them, that it's morally wrong to throw them out. Like discarding a book on Windows 95 will somehow lead to book-burning and totalitarianism. Is this a universal view, or are there people who have no trouble discarding unwanted books?
  - onedev 13y ago
    It feels like throwing away knowledge.
  - zachsnow 13y ago
    I have a ridiculous number of Sci-Fi and fantasy novels hanging about. I never get rid of them. I think it's because each one represents something like an entire year (often much more) of one human's efforts. With movies, say, you know it was hundreds of people. So it's no big deal. But with books you are tossing someone's whole world. Also I like to reread them. Honest.
    - mathattack 13y ago
      It took me a long time to pitch old SF books but I never reread them. I feel that each time you read a great book you can get half the remaining insights so unless a book is awesome I will go for new ones.
  - fusiongyro 13y ago
    I have gotten rid of a few books like that, but once they get old enough they seem to acquire a certain quaint charm. My books on DOS and BeOS, for instance, I'm stuck with now. Of course, Windows Game Programming with VC++ 6.0 was a goner.
chops 13y ago
Ever since watching a few episodes of Hoarders, I've become acutely aware of all the clutter and crap I own, and the line from Fight Club ("The stuff you own begins to own you") resonates with me quite well. I'm also given a regular reminder by my parents who have a nice plot of land in the suburbs, a pool, hot tub, and whatnot, and all the time that's spent keeping up their impeccable lawn, keeping their pool and hot tub clean, frankly, I'd rather just pay my $14/mo for a gym membership to have that pool and hot tub when I want without having to dick around with maintenance. That said, I still have a stack of old decommissioned servers that I just can't bring myself to throw away despite the fact that a cluster of a few Raspberry Pis will be just as powerful for significantly less power. I need to just bite the bullet and scrap them.
- bebna 13y ago
  I framed my old cpus, perhaps you too can make wall decorations out of these servers (or parts of them).
Luyt 13y ago
This immediately reminds me of pg's essay on 'Stuff', http://www.paulgraham.com/stuff.html http://www.paulgraham.com/stuff.html "...once you've accumulated a certain amount of stuff, it starts to own you rather than the other way around. I know of one couple who couldn't retire to the town they preferred because they couldn't afford a place there big enough for all their stuff. Their house isn't theirs; it's their stuff's." (I recently translated the essay into dutch; it's at http://www.michielovertoom.com/articles/paul-graham-spullen/ http://www.michielovertoom.com/articles/paul-graham-spullen/)
- 3stripe 13y ago
  My parents just built an extension onto their 3 bedroom house (just the 2 of them living there) because the dining table didn't fit comfortably into the kitchen/dining room. A good chunk of the space is used up by a sideboard and a display cabinet full of fancy china which is used once a year at most. I asked them why they didn't just buy a smaller table but they wouldn't answer the question. I have a hunch their relationship has failed and has been for some time and they are using the extension as a distraction. Since I moved house earlier in the year I've had 5 boxes of "stuff" sitting under my desk. I make bravado about selling it but I haven't had the balls to yet. What if some day I need all those CDs of mediocre 90s indie? Instead I read endless blog posts by preachers of minimalism and take comfort in my good intentions to do something about my own shit, some day.
  - mapt 13y ago
    CDs are the low-hanging fruit. Digitize them. All it requires is about three hours per linear shelf foot of ripping... or half an hour of queuing up illegal downloads.
harrytuttle 13y ago
I'm currently helping clear out my wife's grandparents place. They are 93 and 95 years old. So far we have thrown away over 2000kg of crap accumulated over the 62 years they have been in the house. None of it has any use or value at all. We have to pay to get it taken away in a skip. We're probably half way through now. I've watched them for the last decade clinging onto these things and I think it's kind of pitiful that possessions hold so much value and are so important. They have sacrificed their health and remaining life to have a large house to hold it all rather than take a bungalow which they can actually get around and live in. There is no conclusion here apart from: please don't end up like this - it's heartbreaking to watch people enslaved by it. I myself have a precise "100 things for me and 100 things shared with the family" policy. I will never compromise on that.
- keithpeter 13y ago
  "They have sacrificed their health and remaining life to have a large house to hold it all rather than take a bungalow which they can actually get around and live in." Having had similar experiences recently, that may not just be the things. It may be the memories of children, life &c, coupled with a reluctance to face the loss of independence.
- maxerickson 13y ago
  I'm surprised you see a rigid policy as more important than the awareness. It might be nice to have both the kayaks and the bicycles if you end up on the right lake...
drivebyacct2 13y ago
I'm 23. I'm the child that embraced this. I own no media. I own no stuff. I own one of a lot of things, and about 3 of a lot of things. One laptop, desktop, monitor, projector, receiver. Three generic bowls, cups, plates. A cheapo set of silverware. A random pot and pan. (Whatever misc accumulates as I cook). That's easily 95% of all of the physical possessions I own besides furniture that I use every single day. I move every 9 and 3 months though, so I appreciate staying nimble. I'm also a presumably life-time bachelor so I don't have a reason to need or acquire stuff.
scotty79 13y ago
“But we have so many vases already.” I'd love to hear that from my life partner. In her case I'd like "vases" to be replaced with "pots", "flowers", "mugs", "cups", "plates", "furniture", "shoes".
thelogos 13y ago
All the stuff I have, -Herman miller chair -army cot -2 blankets -small foldable table -mbp -iphone -casio f91w -10 pairs of dress pants and dress shirts (custom tailored in SE Asia), a black suit, 2 jackets, 2 pairs of shoes -two pelican cases -a cup, a pair of chopsticks, a spoon and a small knife One thing I do really miss is my piano. Not owning too much stuff feels really great. I get this strange anxiety whenever I have too many possessions. Moving is a pain in the ass if you have too many things and I don't like staying in one place for too long. At the end of the day, it saves money and you can spend that on traveling, good food and other entertainments. I'll never understand why more people don't live like this. Most people wouldn't have to work so much if they didn't waste all their money buying useless stuff. Hell, they might even save enough to retire early. Some of my buddies in college had a whole kitchen of utensils, giant tv, desk, couches, humongous bed, piles of clothes, etc. When it came time to move out, it took me an hour to pack up. It took them days. One occasion, I helped a friend move out after his lease ended and he was taking a vacation in Taiwan. He took me to his storage unit and I was in awe at the sight, piles of plates and cups (I had no idea why he needed all these plates), brooms, fans, old tv, etc. I think it costed him more money to store this stuff than the values of the stuff itself. In the end, he ended up never coming back to the US.
mjbellantoni 13y ago
A lack of stuff is really liberating. I've always been a minimalist about things, but the notion was really brought home after learning of Bruce Sterling's categories of possessions (via Scripting News): 1. Beautiful things 2. Things with emotional value 3. Functional things 4. Everything else Here's a link to the Scripting News article which has got a link to Sterling's talk. Listen to the whole thing! http://scripting.com/stories/2009/10/21/bruceSterlingAtReboot.html http://scripting.com/stories/2009/10/21/bruceSterlingAtReboo...
evadne 13y ago
I live out of a backpack. Everything of emotional value is scanned or photographed then recycled; for the originals that I have to keep, they’re kept in safe deposit boxes. Going with good enough alternatives that could be rented instead of bought goes a long way. That said, I don’t own cars, desktop computers or musical instruments, so YMMV.

102 points by georgebonnr 13y ago

"Stuff" really is the worst. I'm only 27 and I'm already feeling the pain. All I can say is that I'm very happy that media no longer takes space to store. My father has acres of shelf space dedicated to books, CDs, records and even cassette tapes. I will never buy a physical book again, and I really need to get around to giving away all the books I have now. I've never owned a physical CD or a DVD. I wont be plagued by photo albums. And then there is paper. If I never receive another letter in my life it will be too soon.

cpursley 13y ago
Yep, being able to store media digitally is HUGE.
lpolovets 13y ago
I bought a ScanSnap scanner a few years ago. It's a $400 scanner that can scan pretty much any document -- even double-sided ones. It applies OCR to printed text and can create searchable PDFs for you. At first I balked at the price tag, then bit the bullet and purchased the scanner, and now I think it's one of the best purchases that I've ever made. I've been able to recycle thousands of documents thanks to this thing.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
jodrellblank 13y ago
Your media clutter isn't gone, it's just out of sight. What's on your digital storage and how tidy, and necessary is it all?

mathgladiator 13y ago

Obligatory George Carlin Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvgN5gCuLac https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvgN5gCuLac

simonebrunozzi 13y ago
"their stuff is shit, and your shit is stuff". LOL.

jpmattia 13y ago

The wife and I moved cross-country two years ago, and were living out of suitcases for a couple of weeks while the moving truck caught up to us. Somewhere around day 10 we realized: If the moving truck was vaporized by a meteor, and they handed us a check for the amount it was insured for, we would have considered it a good trade. So a lot of crap got ditched (after paying to move it clear across the country facepalm). We now live by the equal-volume rule: For anything that comes into the house, something of equal or greater volume must leave.

reeses 13y ago
Now the question is, if a meteor vaporized the moving truck, and you did not receive a check for the loss, would you be satisfied?

NoodleIncident 13y ago

I'm all for getting rid of stuff; stuff costs money, takes up space, and you have to think about it every time you come across it. But you can take my heat and air conditioning out of my dead, 72°F hands.

reeses 13y ago
Is that because you're so ascetic that you haven't cut your hair or fingernails in 20 years and they are literally attached to your central heating? :-) That wonderful temperature between 21-22ºC is truly excellent. Paris in the springtime.
mtts 13y ago
This was actually somewhat of a weak point in the story: Chinese people do not leave the heater off out of frugality but because they think it's unhealthy to have a large temperature difference between the outside of a container (a house, say, or your own body) and the inside. Of course modern, wealthy Chinese are starting to eat ice cream in summer and turning on the heat in winter (and, to be fair, in places where it gets really, really cold, like in Beijing, they've always had heating in winter) so this attitude is changing, but some of it still persists. Bottled water (and beer in restaurants!) is mostly sold unrefrigerated and Chinese shopping malls in summer are nowhere near as glacial as their counterparts in SE Asia or the west.

ChuckMcM 13y ago

It is insidious. In what I thought was a clever inversion there was a gal in LA who had a 'reverse' birthday party, which was that it was her birthday but the living room was filled with things they didn't use, so the rule was everyone had to leave with a gift and no one could bring one. I find I have a hard time throwing stuff away that I know somebody would use. (example a complete orignal Xbox with about a dozen games, two controllers, remote etc) Freecycle used to be good for this, Craigslist still is. Weird though when people get into fights over something you're tossing.

kaybe 13y ago
That sounds like the Hobbit way of celebrating birthdays.. the prologue of Lord of the Rings is quite interesting in this regard. ..'anything that Hobbits had no immiate use for, but were unwilling to throw away, they called a mathom. Their dwellings were apt to become rather crowded with mathoms, and many of the presents that passed from hand to hand were of that sort.'

Oculus 13y ago

I had a rude wake up call not too long ago when I realized our entire world is filled with consumerism and that a lot of us (including myself) are guilty of participating.

MaxScheiber 13y ago

"The things you own end up owning you." Tyler Durden I'm enjoying the life of frugality as a college student right now. My summer apartment has little besides my laptop, a couple of books, clothes / toiletries, my saxophone, and food. It's rather nice. It's hard to waste time being idle. If I'm bored, I need to be social and hang out with someone; I can't waste time playing video games or watching TV. (I'm fortunately pretty sparse with my computer use — GChat, vim, and music mostly.) Every now and then, a friend, upon entering my apartment, will comment on how bare it is. I just smile and say, "Isn't it much simpler this way?"

derefr 13y ago
Articles like this reminds me that I'm probably not the target audience of the Palahniuk quote. I tend to think things like "do I really need to own a large pot? Couldn't I just do several smaller batches of food in a small pot?" and "why do I need a chair in my bedroom if I can sit on my bed?" But I actually try to banish these thoughts--they're almost as dangerous a mindset to get into as that of a hoarder, I think--because the experience of sitting crosslegged on your bed typing on a laptop, with your back aching, reminds you that some possessions actually are a marked improvement to your life. There are a certain number of objects I am alright with being owned by.
- MaxScheiber 13y ago
  I certainly wouldn't call owning a chair being owned by your belongings. :P I think the bigger picture to look at here is that we, as humans, are creative. When we move into an empty apartment, we see a blank slate, prime for decoration. It's very easy to browse Target, Marshalls, or Ikea and want to buy things that look cool because hey, I have a decent salary and cheap housing. Case in point — I bought a Nerf basketball hoop as a spur-of-the-moment purchase. Haven't touched it once. I definitely had to use restraint on other such purchases. So I guess that's what worries me. It's so easy to acquire junk that isn't essential. A pretty Spartan summer definitely showed me what is really essential and what isn't.
  - nileshtrivedi 13y ago

westicle 13y ago

For anyone interested in what happens to all this "stuff" at the other end... I administer several deceased estates (the process for which is to locate and prove the will (if applicable), gather in and dispose of the assets, distribute the balance). As most deceased people tend to be in the 70+ age bracket, it is very unlikely that you can even comprehend the volume of "stuff" involved in that undertaking. Typically, 1% - 5% of the stuff has any commercial value. There might be jewellery, an antique or two. I can usually get $100 for a working fridge. Unfortunately we live in a disposable culture - we are geared to buy new rather than re-use old. Some small proportion of the rest of the stuff can be donated (ie. charities will accept it). The rest fills up 2-5 rubbish skips (6 cubic metres each) and subsequently landfill. Look around your house. Experience indicates that on your death I'll recover approximately $900 from selling your stuff.

Renaud 13y ago
>... I'll recover approximately $900 from selling your stuff. A sobering thought. I'm a bit late for my spring-cleaning, now is as a good a time as any.
sliverstorm 13y ago
Unfortunately we live in a disposable culture - we are geared to buy new rather than re-use old. I think a lot of that has to do with the markets for new & used goods. There are many things I would be perfectly fine buying used, but have no hope of locating for sale in any reasonable span of time.
- adestefan 13y ago
  Or price. People tend to overvalue used items.
- jodrellblank 13y ago
  Are you suggesting there's room for disrupting eBay?
sushimako 13y ago
I've heard of "apartment-looting" parties in Vienna, don't know if this is common elsewhere? In order to empty a deceased apartment, they publicly sell a limited number of tickets (~20-30EUR iirc) for a cleaning/looting event. At the event, they let in a certain number of people at the same time, so it doesn't feel too crowded. Once inside, everyone is free to take whatever they want and can. This is fairly popular with students who just moved into their new flat and need stuff like kitchen supplies, lamps, frames etc.

6d0debc071 13y ago

Small apartments can be nice: http://youtu.be/cWnFgpiCrQo http://youtu.be/cWnFgpiCrQo Though I probably wouldn't go quite that far. --------------- The majority of my 'stuff' by volume, and probably by weight, is books. Even with the advent of ereaders, I still prefer having the thing in my hand. They're interesting things but I find it a lot harder to just flick through reference manuals and the like picking out interesting things in that format. Next up's probably clothes - it just takes a lot of space to hang stuff properly; if you fold a nice dress into a draw, it can easily get ruined.

3stripe 13y ago
Thanks so much for posting that video link, the best thing I've seen on YouTube this month!

ryandrake 13y ago

Wow, hate to sound insensitive, but there seem to be a lot of "First World Problems" on Medium today. "Do I really need all my possessions?" and "I'm leaving my great job at Google because I'm sad". Why can't people just enjoy the fact that they're doing better than 90% of the planet, and not always be trying to find something to have an emotional crisis over? As someone who's been unemployed and weeks from insolvency, I'm happy for the job and stuff I have, and appreciate it, because it could be taken away at any moment.

mindcrime 13y ago
Wow, hate to sound insensitive, but there seem to be a lot of "First World Problems" on Medium today. So? Do you really think that simply screaming "first world problem" at somebody makes their problems any less important to them? At the end of the day, we are all living our own lives, and our own problems are pretty damn important in relative terms. Should we criticize somebody for wanting to maximize their happiness during their short-time in this world?
reeses 13y ago
Symptoms. People lack, for want of a better word, meaning in life. They're looking for it in various places, whether that be via the frisson from buying that glass hummingbird at Gump's or getting a new job selling advertising space on the web. That this is a 'first world' problem is a sign of affluence. You're bouncing against the ceiling of Maslow's 'esteem' and failing to break into 'self-actualization'. When you look at these people wondering at the angst they feel because they can't believe they made poor choices in buying not just twice the amount of stuff they need, but three, four, or ten times as much, it's because they live in a society that has (more or less) solved hunger, personal safety, social interaction, etc. There's this middle ground where they can see that they're unhappy. They can't see what would make them happy, only things that would make them unhappy. They look at people who don't have the current source of unhappiness and they see that those people do not seem less happy for their lack of possessions. "Oh, it must be my attachment to tchotchkes that causes my unhappiness. If I get rid of everything, I will be happy." In many cases, this "meaning" was provided by religion or by an extended family. Some "higher purpose", whether it was preparing the next generation for the future, or their souls for a post-physical existence. In many cases, it's a "legacy" that is a third way to immortality. People have to reach a point of deciding if "happiness" is the optimization they need or want. A friend uses the phase "Budweiser and NASCAR" for the condescending view of the basest American pursuit of short-term happiness or amusement. This is just another form of that, just of a different social class. Looking at the 99% or the developing (or failed) countries is still an externality. It can help frame the scope of your unhappiness, but it is irrelevant how happy you are related to a child soldier in Somalia. You can be grateful for your fortune and privilege, and that can be a good thing, but you're not interchangeable. Unfortunately, there's no royal road to enlightenment. It is, and should be, hard work. Knowing yourself and discerning what is truly important takes a lot of honesty and reflection. You'll have to redefine superficial and deep, as well as a lot of other labels. You'll have to figure out your worldview, your true values and principles, and how far you are from becoming the person you want or need to be.

orofino 13y ago

Last year we sold our things and left to travel around the world. We'd lived in a house for three years, I'd lived in an apartment for two prior to that. It required two garage sales and countless trips to goodwill. It was sickening at times, how little you could sell your things for. We got back a thousand maybe 1.5k on our goods, the rest was a write off. Even still we had about 8 boxes of stuff when we moved out. We came back from traveling sooner than expected and had to re-buy a lot of things, but we've been cautious not to get too many 'useless' things. That isn't to say there is nothing to adorn our apartment, just... much less. In general I'm happier this way, we've got pictures we took on the walls, a few things we picked up traveling, kitchen stuff, and furniture. I hope never again to get to the point where we were before. Worst part of selling your stuff: getting rid of our books.

nileshtrivedi 13y ago
Books and musical instruments are two things that are dearly loved. Can't even lend them to others while we are travelling because no one takes as good care of them as we ourselves do. Sigh.
keithpeter 13y ago
"Worst part of selling your stuff: getting rid of our books." The actual mechanics is easy, OXFAM. Its the choosing I find hard. I cleared a couple of single shelves (out of 34!) and ended up re-reading about 5 books.

stevewillows 13y ago

One of the best things I ever did was get divorced and walk away from nearly everything. I took: - clothes - laptop / server - chef's knife - cutting board - kitchen table Results.

reeses 13y ago
You might be forgetting the other thing you left behind that was causing even more pain than, say, a car. :-)

lifeformed 13y ago

All the stuff I own that I care about fits in just enough space to take with me on a plane. When I move, I just give away or sell things like furniture and kitchen stuff. It's not too expensive replacing it all with cheap Ikea items.

nileshtrivedi 13y ago
Lucky you. Don't have books or musical instruments? Those two are the biggest blockers for me. Furniture and kitchen stuff is easy to give away and buy again. Edit: Things could be worse though. I play guitar, not drums. :)
- lifeformed 13y ago
  I have instruments: some midi controllers and 2 audio monitors to go with it. I found a perfect sized bag that can fit it all, along with my computer stuff. I just have that bag, a big suitcase of clothes, and my carry-ons. I do have books but not too many, and I don't take them with me. I keep most of my stuff like in long term storage (my parents basement).

mathattack 13y ago

The "stuff" I struggle with pitching is books. It just seems criminal. And I hate that I can only get 10% of what I paid from a used book store. But I miss very little of anything that I've pitched over the years. Out of sight, out of mind.

kens 13y ago
It's interesting how books have this almost religious aura to them, that it's morally wrong to throw them out. Like discarding a book on Windows 95 will somehow lead to book-burning and totalitarianism. Is this a universal view, or are there people who have no trouble discarding unwanted books?
- onedev 13y ago
  It feels like throwing away knowledge.
- zachsnow 13y ago
  I have a ridiculous number of Sci-Fi and fantasy novels hanging about. I never get rid of them. I think it's because each one represents something like an entire year (often much more) of one human's efforts. With movies, say, you know it was hundreds of people. So it's no big deal. But with books you are tossing someone's whole world. Also I like to reread them. Honest.
  - mathattack 13y ago
    It took me a long time to pitch old SF books but I never reread them. I feel that each time you read a great book you can get half the remaining insights so unless a book is awesome I will go for new ones.
- fusiongyro 13y ago
  I have gotten rid of a few books like that, but once they get old enough they seem to acquire a certain quaint charm. My books on DOS and BeOS, for instance, I'm stuck with now. Of course, Windows Game Programming with VC++ 6.0 was a goner.

chops 13y ago

Ever since watching a few episodes of Hoarders, I've become acutely aware of all the clutter and crap I own, and the line from Fight Club ("The stuff you own begins to own you") resonates with me quite well. I'm also given a regular reminder by my parents who have a nice plot of land in the suburbs, a pool, hot tub, and whatnot, and all the time that's spent keeping up their impeccable lawn, keeping their pool and hot tub clean, frankly, I'd rather just pay my $14/mo for a gym membership to have that pool and hot tub when I want without having to dick around with maintenance. That said, I still have a stack of old decommissioned servers that I just can't bring myself to throw away despite the fact that a cluster of a few Raspberry Pis will be just as powerful for significantly less power. I need to just bite the bullet and scrap them.

bebna 13y ago
I framed my old cpus, perhaps you too can make wall decorations out of these servers (or parts of them).

Luyt 13y ago

This immediately reminds me of pg's essay on 'Stuff', http://www.paulgraham.com/stuff.html http://www.paulgraham.com/stuff.html "...once you've accumulated a certain amount of stuff, it starts to own you rather than the other way around. I know of one couple who couldn't retire to the town they preferred because they couldn't afford a place there big enough for all their stuff. Their house isn't theirs; it's their stuff's." (I recently translated the essay into dutch; it's at http://www.michielovertoom.com/articles/paul-graham-spullen/ http://www.michielovertoom.com/articles/paul-graham-spullen/)

3stripe 13y ago
My parents just built an extension onto their 3 bedroom house (just the 2 of them living there) because the dining table didn't fit comfortably into the kitchen/dining room. A good chunk of the space is used up by a sideboard and a display cabinet full of fancy china which is used once a year at most. I asked them why they didn't just buy a smaller table but they wouldn't answer the question. I have a hunch their relationship has failed and has been for some time and they are using the extension as a distraction. Since I moved house earlier in the year I've had 5 boxes of "stuff" sitting under my desk. I make bravado about selling it but I haven't had the balls to yet. What if some day I need all those CDs of mediocre 90s indie? Instead I read endless blog posts by preachers of minimalism and take comfort in my good intentions to do something about my own shit, some day.
- mapt 13y ago
  CDs are the low-hanging fruit. Digitize them. All it requires is about three hours per linear shelf foot of ripping... or half an hour of queuing up illegal downloads.

harrytuttle 13y ago

I'm currently helping clear out my wife's grandparents place. They are 93 and 95 years old. So far we have thrown away over 2000kg of crap accumulated over the 62 years they have been in the house. None of it has any use or value at all. We have to pay to get it taken away in a skip. We're probably half way through now. I've watched them for the last decade clinging onto these things and I think it's kind of pitiful that possessions hold so much value and are so important. They have sacrificed their health and remaining life to have a large house to hold it all rather than take a bungalow which they can actually get around and live in. There is no conclusion here apart from: please don't end up like this - it's heartbreaking to watch people enslaved by it. I myself have a precise "100 things for me and 100 things shared with the family" policy. I will never compromise on that.

keithpeter 13y ago
"They have sacrificed their health and remaining life to have a large house to hold it all rather than take a bungalow which they can actually get around and live in." Having had similar experiences recently, that may not just be the things. It may be the memories of children, life &c, coupled with a reluctance to face the loss of independence.
maxerickson 13y ago
I'm surprised you see a rigid policy as more important than the awareness. It might be nice to have both the kayaks and the bicycles if you end up on the right lake...

drivebyacct2 13y ago

I'm 23. I'm the child that embraced this. I own no media. I own no stuff. I own one of a lot of things, and about 3 of a lot of things. One laptop, desktop, monitor, projector, receiver. Three generic bowls, cups, plates. A cheapo set of silverware. A random pot and pan. (Whatever misc accumulates as I cook). That's easily 95% of all of the physical possessions I own besides furniture that I use every single day. I move every 9 and 3 months though, so I appreciate staying nimble. I'm also a presumably life-time bachelor so I don't have a reason to need or acquire stuff.

scotty79 13y ago

“But we have so many vases already.” I'd love to hear that from my life partner. In her case I'd like "vases" to be replaced with "pots", "flowers", "mugs", "cups", "plates", "furniture", "shoes".

thelogos 13y ago

All the stuff I have, -Herman miller chair -army cot -2 blankets -small foldable table -mbp -iphone -casio f91w -10 pairs of dress pants and dress shirts (custom tailored in SE Asia), a black suit, 2 jackets, 2 pairs of shoes -two pelican cases -a cup, a pair of chopsticks, a spoon and a small knife One thing I do really miss is my piano. Not owning too much stuff feels really great. I get this strange anxiety whenever I have too many possessions. Moving is a pain in the ass if you have too many things and I don't like staying in one place for too long. At the end of the day, it saves money and you can spend that on traveling, good food and other entertainments. I'll never understand why more people don't live like this. Most people wouldn't have to work so much if they didn't waste all their money buying useless stuff. Hell, they might even save enough to retire early. Some of my buddies in college had a whole kitchen of utensils, giant tv, desk, couches, humongous bed, piles of clothes, etc. When it came time to move out, it took me an hour to pack up. It took them days. One occasion, I helped a friend move out after his lease ended and he was taking a vacation in Taiwan. He took me to his storage unit and I was in awe at the sight, piles of plates and cups (I had no idea why he needed all these plates), brooms, fans, old tv, etc. I think it costed him more money to store this stuff than the values of the stuff itself. In the end, he ended up never coming back to the US.

mjbellantoni 13y ago

A lack of stuff is really liberating. I've always been a minimalist about things, but the notion was really brought home after learning of Bruce Sterling's categories of possessions (via Scripting News): 1. Beautiful things 2. Things with emotional value 3. Functional things 4. Everything else Here's a link to the Scripting News article which has got a link to Sterling's talk. Listen to the whole thing! http://scripting.com/stories/2009/10/21/bruceSterlingAtReboot.html http://scripting.com/stories/2009/10/21/bruceSterlingAtReboo...

evadne 13y ago

I live out of a backpack. Everything of emotional value is scanned or photographed then recycled; for the originals that I have to keep, they’re kept in safe deposit boxes. Going with good enough alternatives that could be rented instead of bought goes a long way. That said, I don’t own cars, desktop computers or musical instruments, so YMMV.