5 ms·

Icahn Enterprises Issues Statement Regarding Twitter Account of Chairman

45 points by jamesjyu 13y ago

hiccup 13y ago
This is in the context of Icahn announcing he had a large position in Apple and had a phone call with Tim Cook. This then led to a 5% increase in share price. Basically 2 tweets worth $17 Billion in Apple's market value.
- voltagex_ 13y ago
  There is something very, very wrong with the world.
- VladRussian2 13y ago
  what is protection from "pump and dump" here? He isn't allowed to dump the stock for some time? doesn't seem so. One reason Buffet, for example, has special reporting arrangement with SEC is to prevent such volatility, and as a side effect i think it also decreases potential for such pump and dump on his side (not that i imply that Buffet would succumb to such temptation :) edit: after refreshing myself on Buffet's exception, it seems it protects his interests from volatility, not public's :).
  - Dylan16807 13y ago
    I don't think there's any real protection against someone using entirely truthful, open, public methods to raise the price of a stock.
  - fleitz 13y ago
    It's required by law to disclose such acquisitions, he just announced it on twitter instead of on a press release. Also, where is the buy message? A tweet like that is so far from pump and dump... Watch this for an example of what pump and dump really is... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YbvozZk9Sw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YbvozZk9Sw
- toyg 13y ago
  That's quite a nice scheme for free money, if you are that sort of person: "Hey dude, our share price could do with a kick, fancy a tweet or two? I'll give you 1% of the rallied price." That'd be 170 million dollars for two tweets, I bet not even the likes of Icahn would sneeze at that sort of petty cash. Obviously the money moves from Bahamas to Bermuda and the SEC is none the wiser. Internet-enabled finance is terrifying.
  - slykat 13y ago
    This could have happened pre-internet through press. It'd a bit more more difficult logistically but this has always been possible.
  - toyg 13y ago
    Yeah but it'd have been much slower and riskier: the combo of instant broadcasting and instant money-transfer abroad hugely amplifies rewards.
jacques_chester 13y ago
Now that you can post material comments on Twitter, getting access to twitter accounts just became much more valuable on the black market.
- rdl 13y ago
  Thankfully their new 2FA actually looks decent, although presumably you could just go after a known user's already-authorized client device for easy and profitable lulz/great justice.
- nknighthb 13y ago
  I'm not convinced the fact that it's now legal to post such comments make such accounts any more valuable. It seems unlikely it not being legal would dissuade pump&dumpers.
  - jacques_chester 13y ago
    Given that the market moves more on legally protected disclosures, I still think it's added black market value to twitter accounts. That said, markets have moved based on fake press releases with letterheads copied from websites. So it can be done without twitter.
    - stevewillows 13y ago
      A modern Trading Places!
      - jacques_chester 13y ago
        Funnily enough, I'm coming to America soon.
Aloha 13y ago
That make me giggle, just the whole mix of twitter and an SEC notice.
yuhong 13y ago
I hope more CEOs and other executives do this too.
JungleGymSam 13y ago
I don't understand any of this. :\
bryang 13y ago
I don't know where to begin listing all the problems with a situation like this....
- Dylan16807 13y ago
  The company added another channel that they will do 'press releases' via. What are the problems you see?
linohh 13y ago
I'm not familiar with US legislation regarding this, but our (german) laws regulating publicly traded companies would cause a lot of trouble for both Icahn and Icahn Enterprises. I wonder what he was thinking while typing up that double digit billion dollar tweet. And now I wonder what his accountants and lawyers are thinking.
- wmf 13y ago
  While he was CEO of Sun, Jonathan Schwartz got an SEC clarification that blogging is OK under Reg FD, so I guess Tweeting is also allowed. I wonder if Bloomberg syndicates Icahn's tweets now.
  - hornokplease 13y ago
    This may be what you are referencing, but Bloomberg terminals began carrying tweets from selected financial figures and organizations earlier this year: http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/04/04/twitter-arrives-on-wall-street-via-bloomberg/ http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/04/04/twitter-arrives-on-wa...
- spullara 13y ago
  This was changed this year as long as they tell their investors that they tweet: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-02/sec-approves-social-media-use-for-companies-material-disclosure.html http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-02/sec-approves-social...
vrdabomb5717 13y ago
In order not to get into trouble with the SEC, wouldn't Icahn have had to issued this press release alerting investors to look at his Twitter account before he tweeted? Seems like it happened the other way around, which leaves plenty of leeway for screwy trading.
- zeckalpha 13y ago
  They did issue this press release before tweeting.
slykat 13y ago
Does it bother anyone else that the SEC is considering disclosures on closed ecosystems like Twitter to be ok when the stock impact is in the billions? Is this allowed because Tweets are accessible without login or would this be ok on a platform like say, Quora, which requires login to access most of its content?
- fleitz 13y ago
  Does it bother you that the SEC also allows publication in news papers which generally are not free? Does it bother you that level 3 quotes cost upwards of $1000 / month?
  - foobarbazqux 13y ago
    It's a good point, but the concern is not free as in beer, the concern is free as in access. The SEC doesn't allow publication in newspapers that refuse to sell copies to clients they don't like, but a Twitter open only to account holders might mean some people were denied access for non-financial reasons, especially if they were unable to make an account.
    - fleitz 13y ago
      Running a closed access account on Twitter would be a gateway to jail for a guy like Ichan. That's simply pure speculation. Icahn is not trying to get retailers to buy his stock... that's what morons like Jim Cramer are for.
      - curiouscats 13y ago
        Well gateway to breaking the rules. But, essentially white collar criminals don't go to jail no matter how much they do illegally. Of course, there are exceptions, throwing Martha Stewart in jail, for example - but it is very very rare compared to the amount of crime done. I would guess the days-in-jail/$-value-of-illegal-activity for white collar crime is under 1/10,000th of that for crimes generally done by those that don't have country club memberships.

45 points by jamesjyu 13y ago

This is in the context of Icahn announcing he had a large position in Apple and had a phone call with Tim Cook. This then led to a 5% increase in share price. Basically 2 tweets worth $17 Billion in Apple's market value.

voltagex_ 13y ago
There is something very, very wrong with the world.
VladRussian2 13y ago
what is protection from "pump and dump" here? He isn't allowed to dump the stock for some time? doesn't seem so. One reason Buffet, for example, has special reporting arrangement with SEC is to prevent such volatility, and as a side effect i think it also decreases potential for such pump and dump on his side (not that i imply that Buffet would succumb to such temptation :) edit: after refreshing myself on Buffet's exception, it seems it protects his interests from volatility, not public's :).
- Dylan16807 13y ago
  I don't think there's any real protection against someone using entirely truthful, open, public methods to raise the price of a stock.
- fleitz 13y ago
  It's required by law to disclose such acquisitions, he just announced it on twitter instead of on a press release. Also, where is the buy message? A tweet like that is so far from pump and dump... Watch this for an example of what pump and dump really is... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YbvozZk9Sw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YbvozZk9Sw
toyg 13y ago
That's quite a nice scheme for free money, if you are that sort of person: "Hey dude, our share price could do with a kick, fancy a tweet or two? I'll give you 1% of the rallied price." That'd be 170 million dollars for two tweets, I bet not even the likes of Icahn would sneeze at that sort of petty cash. Obviously the money moves from Bahamas to Bermuda and the SEC is none the wiser. Internet-enabled finance is terrifying.
- slykat 13y ago
  This could have happened pre-internet through press. It'd a bit more more difficult logistically but this has always been possible.
- toyg 13y ago
  Yeah but it'd have been much slower and riskier: the combo of instant broadcasting and instant money-transfer abroad hugely amplifies rewards.

jacques_chester 13y ago

Now that you can post material comments on Twitter, getting access to twitter accounts just became much more valuable on the black market.

rdl 13y ago
Thankfully their new 2FA actually looks decent, although presumably you could just go after a known user's already-authorized client device for easy and profitable lulz/great justice.
nknighthb 13y ago
I'm not convinced the fact that it's now legal to post such comments make such accounts any more valuable. It seems unlikely it not being legal would dissuade pump&dumpers.
- jacques_chester 13y ago
  Given that the market moves more on legally protected disclosures, I still think it's added black market value to twitter accounts. That said, markets have moved based on fake press releases with letterheads copied from websites. So it can be done without twitter.
  - stevewillows 13y ago
    A modern Trading Places!
    - jacques_chester 13y ago
      Funnily enough, I'm coming to America soon.

Aloha 13y ago

That make me giggle, just the whole mix of twitter and an SEC notice.

yuhong 13y ago

I hope more CEOs and other executives do this too.

JungleGymSam 13y ago

I don't understand any of this. :\

bryang 13y ago

I don't know where to begin listing all the problems with a situation like this....

Dylan16807 13y ago
The company added another channel that they will do 'press releases' via. What are the problems you see?

linohh 13y ago

I'm not familiar with US legislation regarding this, but our (german) laws regulating publicly traded companies would cause a lot of trouble for both Icahn and Icahn Enterprises. I wonder what he was thinking while typing up that double digit billion dollar tweet. And now I wonder what his accountants and lawyers are thinking.

wmf 13y ago
While he was CEO of Sun, Jonathan Schwartz got an SEC clarification that blogging is OK under Reg FD, so I guess Tweeting is also allowed. I wonder if Bloomberg syndicates Icahn's tweets now.
- hornokplease 13y ago
  This may be what you are referencing, but Bloomberg terminals began carrying tweets from selected financial figures and organizations earlier this year: http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/04/04/twitter-arrives-on-wall-street-via-bloomberg/ http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/04/04/twitter-arrives-on-wa...
spullara 13y ago
This was changed this year as long as they tell their investors that they tweet: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-02/sec-approves-social-media-use-for-companies-material-disclosure.html http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-02/sec-approves-social...

vrdabomb5717 13y ago

In order not to get into trouble with the SEC, wouldn't Icahn have had to issued this press release alerting investors to look at his Twitter account before he tweeted? Seems like it happened the other way around, which leaves plenty of leeway for screwy trading.

zeckalpha 13y ago
They did issue this press release before tweeting.

slykat 13y ago

Does it bother anyone else that the SEC is considering disclosures on closed ecosystems like Twitter to be ok when the stock impact is in the billions? Is this allowed because Tweets are accessible without login or would this be ok on a platform like say, Quora, which requires login to access most of its content?

fleitz 13y ago
Does it bother you that the SEC also allows publication in news papers which generally are not free? Does it bother you that level 3 quotes cost upwards of $1000 / month?
- foobarbazqux 13y ago
  It's a good point, but the concern is not free as in beer, the concern is free as in access. The SEC doesn't allow publication in newspapers that refuse to sell copies to clients they don't like, but a Twitter open only to account holders might mean some people were denied access for non-financial reasons, especially if they were unable to make an account.
  - fleitz 13y ago
    Running a closed access account on Twitter would be a gateway to jail for a guy like Ichan. That's simply pure speculation. Icahn is not trying to get retailers to buy his stock... that's what morons like Jim Cramer are for.
    - curiouscats 13y ago
      Well gateway to breaking the rules. But, essentially white collar criminals don't go to jail no matter how much they do illegally. Of course, there are exceptions, throwing Martha Stewart in jail, for example - but it is very very rare compared to the amount of crime done. I would guess the days-in-jail/$-value-of-illegal-activity for white collar crime is under 1/10,000th of that for crimes generally done by those that don't have country club memberships.