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"But C++ often hits a sweet-spot between languages where high-level abstractions are available with the raw power of C when you need it." He then goes on to say

"But C++ often hits a sweet-spot between languages where high-level abstractions are available with the raw power of C when you need it." He then goes on to say he uses Ruby and not Python. Is Ruby missing nice C integration? Python is oft-touted as the sweet spot here, although I have to confess I haven't done a whole lot of Python/C or Python/C++ integration.

noamsml 17y ago
Most languages with C integration can be integrated into C++ quite reasonably, if not optimally.
- stcredzero 17y ago
  In Smalltalk/X, you can just inline C in a method. There are ways of doing that for Ruby as well. It's also fairly easy in Smalltalk generally to do callouts to a DLL, or to implement your own "primitive" method in C.
wheels 17y ago
I just like Ruby more. You can connect both Python and Ruby to C APIs, and I've done so in the past from Ruby. C++ integration is usually moderately more annoying since once you start moving beyond ordinal types cross-language communication becomes hairier. C ends up being the lingua franca between programming environments a lot of the time.
- kingkongrevenge 17y ago
  It is just as easy to extend any of the scripting languages with C++ as it is with C. SWIG and other systems like XS have built-in support for C++. Even if that weren't true, you can just make your interface header files 'extern "C"' yet enjoy the superior power of C++ in your implementation files. There is no reason to favor C over C++ when extending a scripting language.
  - wheels 17y ago
    Right. By "I extended them with C", I meant, "I extended them with a C interface"; the implementation was in C++.
stonemetal 17y ago
I think he meant that if you were going to pick one language that was both high level and perform well it would be C++. To do better you would have to, as you suggest, split it in to two languages.
davidw 17y ago
Tcl is actually the sweet spot in terms of its C API - you can do pretty much anything you can do in the language itself, and more. And it's all very nice code to work with.
kingkongrevenge 17y ago
I've rewritten Python programs in C++ and got close to the same line count, yet hugely better resource usage. You can't do that with C. With C++ you often don't need to reach for a heavy and slow language. You'll do just as well for maybe a 2X development speed penalty.

noamsml 17y ago

Most languages with C integration can be integrated into C++ quite reasonably, if not optimally.

stcredzero 17y ago
In Smalltalk/X, you can just inline C in a method. There are ways of doing that for Ruby as well. It's also fairly easy in Smalltalk generally to do callouts to a DLL, or to implement your own "primitive" method in C.

wheels 17y ago

I just like Ruby more. You can connect both Python and Ruby to C APIs, and I've done so in the past from Ruby. C++ integration is usually moderately more annoying since once you start moving beyond ordinal types cross-language communication becomes hairier. C ends up being the lingua franca between programming environments a lot of the time.

kingkongrevenge 17y ago
It is just as easy to extend any of the scripting languages with C++ as it is with C. SWIG and other systems like XS have built-in support for C++. Even if that weren't true, you can just make your interface header files 'extern "C"' yet enjoy the superior power of C++ in your implementation files. There is no reason to favor C over C++ when extending a scripting language.
- wheels 17y ago
  Right. By "I extended them with C", I meant, "I extended them with a C interface"; the implementation was in C++.

stonemetal 17y ago

I think he meant that if you were going to pick one language that was both high level and perform well it would be C++. To do better you would have to, as you suggest, split it in to two languages.

davidw 17y ago

Tcl is actually the sweet spot in terms of its C API - you can do pretty much anything you can do in the language itself, and more. And it's all very nice code to work with.

kingkongrevenge 17y ago

I've rewritten Python programs in C++ and got close to the same line count, yet hugely better resource usage. You can't do that with C. With C++ you often don't need to reach for a heavy and slow language. You'll do just as well for maybe a 2X development speed penalty.