10 ms·

Spy access to NZ used as bargaining tool

109 points by Andome 13y ago

rdl 13y ago
Is this why they killed Pacific Fibre?
- mappu 13y ago
  I think the official line is that having investment from both China and the US was considered a dealbreaker by the US side, and since the US wouldn't fund it completely, the deal couldn't go through. Guess this explains why. I'm a resident but not anyone important, so clarifications welcome
  - lancewiggs 13y ago
    China investment meant a preference for Chinese equipment/vendors, which in turn would mean getting a landing in the USA would be very hard, essentially impossible. The primary contract was signed with a US vendor, TE Subcom (actually HQ is in Switzerland for tax reasons), and whether the Chinese vendor could even do the job aside even from landing rights was a big question. Funding from any source never amounted to enough to get it away. Which is a shame as the business case was - and still is - compelling. Source: me - a Pacific Fibre founder
    - rdl 13y ago
      I still don't understand what legal justification the US has for making it hard to get landing rights in the USA just because you use Chinese equipment. If I ever have a spare $300mm or so, I know what I'm funding.
      - lostlogin 13y ago
        If there weren't any existing, it could make some. There are some very protectionist policies in the US and if you have the lobbying power you can get even more. That said, how many local industries aren't protected by their country's government? Some protection is good, but finding the balance can be a little tricky.
      - ajays 13y ago
        Because the US knows what's possible? They know how much they can tap the cable, and if the cable had Chines equipment, they'd be tapping it similarly too?
    - mappu 13y ago
      It's a pleasure to get a direct response from the source. Thank you, for all the work you put in to get the project as far as it did.
    - lostlogin 13y ago
      Thanks for commenting. It's good people like you are trying in NZ. I have mentioned to various ISPs in NZ that if they can provide a connection of any speed that is reasonable, I'll pay lots for it. Even 10Mb would have me pay probably 3x what we pay now. No ISP that I have found will provide a connection north of about 3-5Mb. 4 different properties all in Auckland. The business centre of the country has things this bad and I can help improve it as far as I can tell.
      - mappu 13y ago
        NZ internet isn't quite google fiber, but it's gotten a lot better recently with VDSL2 and residential UFB. Are you looking for a business line with dedicated / 99th percentile bandwidth, or a residential connection? At least Snap and Telecom offer VDSL2 (and surely everyone else must be about to start), I get a constant 40/10 with a good-sized cap for a reasonable price in my small Christchurch suburb. Slingshot offer a passable unmetered ADSL2+ pretty cheaply if that's your poison. Telstra's 100mbit cable service is also reasonably cheap and worth considering if you're in a supported area.
        lostlogin 13y ago
        Residential. I'd take a tenth that speed in a heartbeat. No provider can provide anything better than crap anywhere I have ever lived. The lines on the street have always been too rubbish to support anything good. I know people who get about 10Mb but have never knowingly met an Aucklander who gets more than that currently I max out at about 3. It's so very bad.
        phyalow 13y ago
        I'm in Auckland and consistently get upwards of the speeds you mention (15-20 Mbps Telecom).
        steveh73 13y ago
        I get 10-12mbit pretty consistently on unmetered ADSL2, and did at the last two places I lived as well. The couple of people I know with VDSL get 30-40mbit. A couple of others with UFB get the full 100mbit. Perhaps you're just really unlucky. This is all across auckland with telecom, vodafone, slingslot, orcon.
malandrew 13y ago
[former CIA director and National Security Agency director General Michael Hayden] was quoted as saying: "Because of the nature of global telecommunications, we are playing with a tremendous home-field advantage, and we need to exploit that edge. I really hope the rest of the World understands the implications here and works to eliminate the home field advantage for the US and makes sure that no other country ever gets this advantage. No single country should ever have that power.
aunty_helen 13y ago
This wouldn't happen under a Labour led government... 2006 oh shi..
- lostlogin 13y ago
  Clarke wasn't perfect, but Key's willingness to stoop to any level for the rich or powerful is shameless. Pandering to the US (Afghanistan, Dotcom), Sky city deal, Power company sell off and directors massive pay bumps, Kiwi rail shares owned by the PM whist the future of Kiwi rail hangs in the balance, bailing out Rio Tinto last week. How many dozen have I missed? http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1305/S00195/skycity-hits-jackpot-with-keys-dodgy-deal.htm http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1305/S00195/skycity-hits-ja... http://m.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10875466 http://m.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&obj... http://www.3news.co.nz/Key-lied-about-ownership-of-Tranz-Rail-shares-Labour/tabid/419/articleID/72617/Default.aspx http://www.3news.co.nz/Key-lied-about-ownership-of-Tranz-Rai... http://m.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10910225 http://m.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&obj...
  - aunty_helen 13y ago
    Anti-sea protest laws at the request of Royal Dutch Shell, 3 strikes law prototyped for the US and the attempted inclusion of software patents at the request of IBM and MS to name but a few. And most obviously the GCSB law change.
javajosh 13y ago
Gods, could the NSA get any more short-sighted? Once they started tapping into all of this data, how long did they think they could keep it secret, especially when tens of thousands of contractors knew about the program? Once the news leaked, what did they think other countries were going to do? Whenever people in power setup perfect systems of abuse, the people being abused will change that system by going out-of-band.
- miga 13y ago
  Some say that privacy will disappear in this century anyway. Nice book about it is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Database_Nation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Database_Nation
  - bowlofpetunias 13y ago
    The short abstract at Wikipedia states the opposite if what you're stating: "His most important point is that the right to privacy is a constitutionally protected right and it does not have to be traded away for our way of life." Unlike other forms of "progress", the disappearing of privacy is very much a choice. Yes, we're on the back foot at the moment when it comes to regulating the way technology is (ab)used, but those of us with a functioning democracy still have ample opportunity to fight back. Also: "He calls the government to take a stand for privacy by establishing an agency that will enforce privacy laws and act as a representative of individual privacy." I presume this is an American perspective. Each EU country for instance is obliged to have such an agency.
    - Gormo 13y ago
      >> "He calls the government to take a stand for privacy by establishing an agency that will enforce privacy laws and act as a representative of individual privacy." > Each EU country for instance is obliged to have such an agency. This sounds like a good way to create a centralized clearinghouse for abuse and corruption via regulatory capture. The viable solution here will be to develop and use technologies that protect privacy as part of their inherent design; relying on the oversight of bureaucracies, especially political ones, to protect privacy just isn't going to work.
amirmc 13y ago
"It seems that we now have the choice between taking the time to understand and implement secure encryption or choosing services based on which governments we don't mind spying on us." I prefer the first of those two options but it'll only have an impact if more people make the same choice.
e3pi 13y ago
So McCain says today US needs to start poking digits(pun?) into Putin's eye, and this NZ fragment leads me to wonder what fist or carrot incentive makes every(?) country in the world pipe their domestic surveillance back to US? Now, how then, do you apply all the world's intel to acquire whatever you want? What new US intel agency with an eagle logo orchestrates the `parallel construction' to `git 'er done'?
toble 13y ago
The way things are going, I wouldn't be surprised if they bundled it in as a secret requirement for international trade deals.

109 points by Andome 13y ago

rdl 13y ago

Is this why they killed Pacific Fibre?

mappu 13y ago
I think the official line is that having investment from both China and the US was considered a dealbreaker by the US side, and since the US wouldn't fund it completely, the deal couldn't go through. Guess this explains why. I'm a resident but not anyone important, so clarifications welcome
- lancewiggs 13y ago
  China investment meant a preference for Chinese equipment/vendors, which in turn would mean getting a landing in the USA would be very hard, essentially impossible. The primary contract was signed with a US vendor, TE Subcom (actually HQ is in Switzerland for tax reasons), and whether the Chinese vendor could even do the job aside even from landing rights was a big question. Funding from any source never amounted to enough to get it away. Which is a shame as the business case was - and still is - compelling. Source: me - a Pacific Fibre founder
  - rdl 13y ago
    I still don't understand what legal justification the US has for making it hard to get landing rights in the USA just because you use Chinese equipment. If I ever have a spare $300mm or so, I know what I'm funding.
    - lostlogin 13y ago
      If there weren't any existing, it could make some. There are some very protectionist policies in the US and if you have the lobbying power you can get even more. That said, how many local industries aren't protected by their country's government? Some protection is good, but finding the balance can be a little tricky.
    - ajays 13y ago
      Because the US knows what's possible? They know how much they can tap the cable, and if the cable had Chines equipment, they'd be tapping it similarly too?
  - mappu 13y ago
    It's a pleasure to get a direct response from the source. Thank you, for all the work you put in to get the project as far as it did.
  - lostlogin 13y ago
    Thanks for commenting. It's good people like you are trying in NZ. I have mentioned to various ISPs in NZ that if they can provide a connection of any speed that is reasonable, I'll pay lots for it. Even 10Mb would have me pay probably 3x what we pay now. No ISP that I have found will provide a connection north of about 3-5Mb. 4 different properties all in Auckland. The business centre of the country has things this bad and I can help improve it as far as I can tell.
    - mappu 13y ago
      NZ internet isn't quite google fiber, but it's gotten a lot better recently with VDSL2 and residential UFB. Are you looking for a business line with dedicated / 99th percentile bandwidth, or a residential connection? At least Snap and Telecom offer VDSL2 (and surely everyone else must be about to start), I get a constant 40/10 with a good-sized cap for a reasonable price in my small Christchurch suburb. Slingshot offer a passable unmetered ADSL2+ pretty cheaply if that's your poison. Telstra's 100mbit cable service is also reasonably cheap and worth considering if you're in a supported area.
      - lostlogin 13y ago
        Residential. I'd take a tenth that speed in a heartbeat. No provider can provide anything better than crap anywhere I have ever lived. The lines on the street have always been too rubbish to support anything good. I know people who get about 10Mb but have never knowingly met an Aucklander who gets more than that currently I max out at about 3. It's so very bad.
        phyalow 13y ago
        I'm in Auckland and consistently get upwards of the speeds you mention (15-20 Mbps Telecom).
        steveh73 13y ago
        I get 10-12mbit pretty consistently on unmetered ADSL2, and did at the last two places I lived as well. The couple of people I know with VDSL get 30-40mbit. A couple of others with UFB get the full 100mbit. Perhaps you're just really unlucky. This is all across auckland with telecom, vodafone, slingslot, orcon.

malandrew 13y ago

[former CIA director and National Security Agency director General Michael Hayden] was quoted as saying: "Because of the nature of global telecommunications, we are playing with a tremendous home-field advantage, and we need to exploit that edge. I really hope the rest of the World understands the implications here and works to eliminate the home field advantage for the US and makes sure that no other country ever gets this advantage. No single country should ever have that power.

aunty_helen 13y ago

This wouldn't happen under a Labour led government... 2006 oh shi..

lostlogin 13y ago
Clarke wasn't perfect, but Key's willingness to stoop to any level for the rich or powerful is shameless. Pandering to the US (Afghanistan, Dotcom), Sky city deal, Power company sell off and directors massive pay bumps, Kiwi rail shares owned by the PM whist the future of Kiwi rail hangs in the balance, bailing out Rio Tinto last week. How many dozen have I missed? http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1305/S00195/skycity-hits-jackpot-with-keys-dodgy-deal.htm http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1305/S00195/skycity-hits-ja... http://m.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10875466 http://m.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&obj... http://www.3news.co.nz/Key-lied-about-ownership-of-Tranz-Rail-shares-Labour/tabid/419/articleID/72617/Default.aspx http://www.3news.co.nz/Key-lied-about-ownership-of-Tranz-Rai... http://m.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10910225 http://m.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&obj...
- aunty_helen 13y ago
  Anti-sea protest laws at the request of Royal Dutch Shell, 3 strikes law prototyped for the US and the attempted inclusion of software patents at the request of IBM and MS to name but a few. And most obviously the GCSB law change.

javajosh 13y ago

Gods, could the NSA get any more short-sighted? Once they started tapping into all of this data, how long did they think they could keep it secret, especially when tens of thousands of contractors knew about the program? Once the news leaked, what did they think other countries were going to do? Whenever people in power setup perfect systems of abuse, the people being abused will change that system by going out-of-band.

miga 13y ago
Some say that privacy will disappear in this century anyway. Nice book about it is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Database_Nation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Database_Nation
- bowlofpetunias 13y ago
  The short abstract at Wikipedia states the opposite if what you're stating: "His most important point is that the right to privacy is a constitutionally protected right and it does not have to be traded away for our way of life." Unlike other forms of "progress", the disappearing of privacy is very much a choice. Yes, we're on the back foot at the moment when it comes to regulating the way technology is (ab)used, but those of us with a functioning democracy still have ample opportunity to fight back. Also: "He calls the government to take a stand for privacy by establishing an agency that will enforce privacy laws and act as a representative of individual privacy." I presume this is an American perspective. Each EU country for instance is obliged to have such an agency.
  - Gormo 13y ago
    >> "He calls the government to take a stand for privacy by establishing an agency that will enforce privacy laws and act as a representative of individual privacy." > Each EU country for instance is obliged to have such an agency. This sounds like a good way to create a centralized clearinghouse for abuse and corruption via regulatory capture. The viable solution here will be to develop and use technologies that protect privacy as part of their inherent design; relying on the oversight of bureaucracies, especially political ones, to protect privacy just isn't going to work.

amirmc 13y ago

"It seems that we now have the choice between taking the time to understand and implement secure encryption or choosing services based on which governments we don't mind spying on us." I prefer the first of those two options but it'll only have an impact if more people make the same choice.

e3pi 13y ago

So McCain says today US needs to start poking digits(pun?) into Putin's eye, and this NZ fragment leads me to wonder what fist or carrot incentive makes every(?) country in the world pipe their domestic surveillance back to US? Now, how then, do you apply all the world's intel to acquire whatever you want? What new US intel agency with an eagle logo orchestrates the `parallel construction' to `git 'er done'?

toble 13y ago

The way things are going, I wouldn't be surprised if they bundled it in as a secret requirement for international trade deals.